The cost of doing something "stupid"?

horseman308 · November 26, 2018, 08:53 AM

Okay, not the life-and-limb kind of stupid, just the financial kind. I need some perspective on the value of my current Cowboy Action rig, as well as the costs - not just financial but also practical - of trading in a different direction.

I was gifted a very nice pair of customized and race tuned Vaqueros and an Uberti '73, all in .357mag/.38spl. They once belonged to dad's late friend, and came to me through that relationship.

The Vaqueros (in stainless) have had a full action job with lightened springs, smoothed actions, bead-blasted barrels and frames (grip frame and cylinders left bright), and jeweled hammers and triggers. They look great, and I'll be putting some custom Wenge extended grips on them. Accompanied with a nice Mernicke gunfighter rig. The Uberti '73 has a short stroke kit and slicked up action. They all shoot great.

Now, I LOVE that rifle. I like the pistols okay, but as nice as they are, I wouldn't have chosen them if I had been buying from the ground up. What I would have done would have been Uberti Outlaw 1875s and a '73, all in .44-40. My own tastes just run to the old-school cartridges, and the 1875 fits my hand better.

My guns have had approximately 200-300 rounds apiece through them - not much. If I wanted to sell my current rig to get the .44-40 rig mentioned above, what would y'all say is a fair market price for all three guns and the rig? Keep in mind that the only way I could really consider this move if I can do it essentially for even money.

On the practical side, I know I'd have to reload for .44-40, especially since I would be shooting Holy Black. What other practical drawbacks might there be?

Like I said, I know that on some level, passing on a set of very nice, race tuned guns for a different set might be pretty idiotic. So, feel free to talk me out of it, too!

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

FITASC · November 26, 2018, 10:15 AM

Have you looked on the various gun selling/auction sites to see what they go for (and then factor in the artermarket work? Are there forums specific to that game where you might see ads of these for sale to get an idea?

horseman308 · November 26, 2018, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FITASC

Have you looked on the various gun selling/auction sites to see what they go for (and then factor in the artermarket work? Are there forums specific to that game where you might see ads of these for sale to get an idea?

I've looked at GB and Guns America. Prices for new to used range around $500-700 each for the Vaqueros and $1100-1300 for the '73, but I usually can't tell whether any of those are tuned up. SASS has a forum, but I'm not a SASS member, so I don't think I can use it.

Posted here to try and get a little extra perspective to work with.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

John E.B. Rawton · November 26, 2018, 10:50 AM

You can sign up to sass as a guest and they do have a selling/buying page. Plenty of people to get opinions from.

Hawg · November 26, 2018, 01:14 PM

It's been awhile since I was on the SASS Wire but you have to make a certain number of posts before you can sell anything there but you can get some good insight as to what they're worth.

FITASC · November 26, 2018, 01:28 PM

He could probably post asking for help though, right?

Hawg · November 26, 2018, 02:20 PM

Oh yeah he can definitely do that.

horseman308 · November 26, 2018, 09:16 PM

Money questions aside, any opinions on the wisdom of trading race tuned Vaqueros and 73 in .38 for Uberti 1875s and a 73 in .44-40? Keeping in mind the 1875s feel a little better in the hand to me (though I shoot the Rugers just fine).

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

denster · November 26, 2018, 10:33 PM

The 44/40 is a good choice in the rifle if you intend to shoot black powder as the bottleneck case keeps a lot of the fouling from blowing back into the action. I'm not a fan of the Uberti 1875. I've worked on a few and it just didn't seem like Uberti put as much attention to quality in them that they have in their more popular Colt clones.
44/40 is a reloading proposition unless you have deep pockets. They are more tedious than straight wall cases but not too bad.

45 Dragoon · November 26, 2018, 11:25 PM

Horseman,
I think '75's are a great choice! I also know someone that can replace the flat springs in them with coil /torsion springs!

With a few other things in the mix, I'd say they are tougher than a Ruger (action) and are definitely lighter than Rugers.

Good luck!

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

horseman308 · November 27, 2018, 08:47 AM

Denster and Dragoons comments are just the opposing views I'd love to hear more about and are good examples of why I'm not sure whether it's worth the effort of the sale/trade. I don't see too many bad reviews of the Vaquero - though it has its detractors. I do see more mixed reviews of the 1875 and of Uberti revolvers in general.

Could y'all expound a little more about your different views? I know Mike has lots of experience with this type of gun, but I'd like to hear more specifics about the good, the bad, and the ambiguous.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

John E.B. Rawton · November 27, 2018, 10:24 AM

I know that you are looking for pros and cons and this reply is neither. I once was talking to my father and questioned whether or not I paid too much for a particular used gun and he said “ If I was happy with it then it was not too much “ I buy the guns I want to shoot and unfortunately have a couple I don’t even get out anymore. If I was not going to be satisfied shooting tuned up slick race guns I’d sell them or trade in like value. I have a brace of pistols most people would not consider shooting regularly but I am satisfied and I get enjoyment from them. I think this is like comparing apples and oranges and if money wasn’t the issue I’d get what I want and not look back. The rugers you have are setup for one type of shooting and the ubertis are going to be something else altogether unless you invest in slicking them up.

denster · November 27, 2018, 11:17 AM

I don't consider the 75s bad just not of the quality of Uberti's SAA although there I prefer the EMF Great Western II. I'm sure 45 Dragoon could slick up the 75s into real race guns.
The Vaqueros can be slicked up but as to feel it depends on which you have. The first Vaqueros were on the blackhawk frame and were larger and heavier than a Colt. Then Ruger came out with the New Vaquero at same basic size and feel as a Colt. A major improvement to my mind. Then they made it confusing by dropping the "New" and just calling them Vaquero but of the smaller size.

Trum4n1208 · November 27, 2018, 11:20 AM

For my 2 cents, I had two Uberti 1875's in .45 Colt. I loved them, great guns. My only problem with them was they didn't handle Black Powder well, and I primarily shoot BP cartridges. I sold them off due to pressing financial need, but I want another, in .44-40 this time. If I could get one with a better gas collar for BP, then it would be the perfect single action revolver for me. Just my opinion.

Driftwood Johnson · November 27, 2018, 02:06 PM

Howdy

Forget getting extra money because they have been tuned up. It is doubtful anyone will pay extra for that. That is just the way it is. Price them as used guns and be happy with what you can get for them.

No opinion about whether to keep the Rugers or go with the 1875 Remingtons. The 1875 Remington has a slightly longer grip with more space between the trigger guard and the grip than a Colt or Ruger. Some folks like that, some don't. I have no opinion as to the workmanship of the 1875s vs an Uberti Colt clone. No practical experience with 1875 clones.

Regarding shooting 44-40 loaded with Black Powder, that is all I shoot in my CAS rifles, except for one original 1873 Winchester chambered for 38-40. So I am quite used to loading Black Powder in a 44-40, or 38-40, or 45 Colt or 45 Schofield. I am used to the extra hassles involved with loading for Black Powder.

And just so you know, it is not the bottleneck case of the 44-40 or 38-40 that keeps blowback out of the action of a rifle. High pressure gas has no problem going around corners. 44-40 (and 38-40) brass tends to be thinner at the case mouth than most other cartridges. About .007 vs about .012 for 45 Colt. It is the thinness of the brass that keeps the fouling out of the action of a rifle. The thinner brass expands more easily at relatively low pressure to seal the bore than the thicker brass of 45 Colt.

That thin brass is also the reason 44-40 can be a bit fussy to reload. Easy to crumple the neck if you don't have your dies set up just right. And if you slam a 44-40 case into the bottom of the sizing/decap die it will probably crumple, whereas the more robust 45 Colt round will just shrug off the insult. Have done it a bazillion times. The answer is to set up your dies carefully, and slow down while raising the case into the die, so you can stop if you feel resistance.

Jbar4Ranch · November 27, 2018, 07:34 PM

I'm yer huckleberry -

I'm trying to downsize considerably so one of these days my kids won't have to deal with something they don't know that much about.
I had four 1875 .44-40's, and sold two. I still have the pair of Navy Arms branded ones if you're interested.

https://www.sassnet.com/forums/index...n-1875-44-40s/

horseman308 · November 28, 2018, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jbar4Ranch

I'm yer huckleberry -

I'm trying to downsize considerably so one of these days my kids won't have to deal with something they don't know that much about.
I had four 1875 .44-40's, and sold two. I still have the pair of Navy Arms branded ones if you're interested.

https://www.sassnet.com/forums/index...n-1875-44-40s/

Dang it, this was supposed to be a nice theoretical discussion where I could weigh opinions without having to actually do anything. Now you come along with just the thing at a good price.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

November 26, 2018, 08:53 AM	#1
horseman308 Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2009 Location: Maryland Posts: 526	The cost of doing something "stupid"? Okay, not the life-and-limb kind of stupid, just the financial kind. I need some perspective on the value of my current Cowboy Action rig, as well as the costs - not just financial but also practical - of trading in a different direction. I was gifted a very nice pair of customized and race tuned Vaqueros and an Uberti '73, all in .357mag/.38spl. They once belonged to dad's late friend, and came to me through that relationship. The Vaqueros (in stainless) have had a full action job with lightened springs, smoothed actions, bead-blasted barrels and frames (grip frame and cylinders left bright), and jeweled hammers and triggers. They look great, and I'll be putting some custom Wenge extended grips on them. Accompanied with a nice Mernicke gunfighter rig. The Uberti '73 has a short stroke kit and slicked up action. They all shoot great. Now, I LOVE that rifle. I like the pistols okay, but as nice as they are, I wouldn't have chosen them if I had been buying from the ground up. What I would have done would have been Uberti Outlaw 1875s and a '73, all in .44-40. My own tastes just run to the old-school cartridges, and the 1875 fits my hand better. My guns have had approximately 200-300 rounds apiece through them - not much. If I wanted to sell my current rig to get the .44-40 rig mentioned above, what would y'all say is a fair market price for all three guns and the rig? Keep in mind that the only way I could really consider this move if I can do it essentially for even money. On the practical side, I know I'd have to reload for .44-40, especially since I would be shooting Holy Black. What other practical drawbacks might there be? Like I said, I know that on some level, passing on a set of very nice, race tuned guns for a different set might be pretty idiotic. So, feel free to talk me out of it, too! Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

November 26, 2018, 10:15 AM	#2
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,446	Have you looked on the various gun selling/auction sites to see what they go for (and then factor in the artermarket work? Are there forums specific to that game where you might see ads of these for sale to get an idea? __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

November 26, 2018, 01:28 PM	#6
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,446	He could probably post asking for help though, right? __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

November 27, 2018, 07:34 PM	#16
Jbar4Ranch Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 1999 Location: Near Helena, Montana Posts: 1,719	I'm yer huckleberry - I'm trying to downsize considerably so one of these days my kids won't have to deal with something they don't know that much about. I had four 1875 .44-40's, and sold two. I still have the pair of Navy Arms branded ones if you're interested. https://www.sassnet.com/forums/index...n-1875-44-40s/ __________________ Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets replaced... SASS 47015

November 26, 2018, 10:50 AM	#4
John E.B. Rawton Member Join Date: September 22, 2018 Posts: 68	You can sign up to sass as a guest and they do have a selling/buying page. Plenty of people to get opinions from.

November 26, 2018, 01:14 PM	#5
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	It's been awhile since I was on the SASS Wire but you have to make a certain number of posts before you can sell anything there but you can get some good insight as to what they're worth.

November 26, 2018, 02:20 PM	#7
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	Oh yeah he can definitely do that.

November 26, 2018, 09:16 PM	#8
horseman308 Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2009 Location: Maryland Posts: 526	Money questions aside, any opinions on the wisdom of trading race tuned Vaqueros and 73 in .38 for Uberti 1875s and a 73 in .44-40? Keeping in mind the 1875s feel a little better in the hand to me (though I shoot the Rugers just fine). Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

November 26, 2018, 10:33 PM	#9
denster Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 581	The 44/40 is a good choice in the rifle if you intend to shoot black powder as the bottleneck case keeps a lot of the fouling from blowing back into the action. I'm not a fan of the Uberti 1875. I've worked on a few and it just didn't seem like Uberti put as much attention to quality in them that they have in their more popular Colt clones. 44/40 is a reloading proposition unless you have deep pockets. They are more tedious than straight wall cases but not too bad.

November 26, 2018, 11:25 PM	#10
45 Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2013 Posts: 656	Horseman, I think '75's are a great choice! I also know someone that can replace the flat springs in them with coil /torsion springs! With a few other things in the mix, I'd say they are tougher than a Ruger (action) and are definitely lighter than Rugers. Good luck! Mike www.goonsgunworks.com Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

November 27, 2018, 08:47 AM	#11
horseman308 Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2009 Location: Maryland Posts: 526	Denster and Dragoons comments are just the opposing views I'd love to hear more about and are good examples of why I'm not sure whether it's worth the effort of the sale/trade. I don't see too many bad reviews of the Vaquero - though it has its detractors. I do see more mixed reviews of the 1875 and of Uberti revolvers in general. Could y'all expound a little more about your different views? I know Mike has lots of experience with this type of gun, but I'd like to hear more specifics about the good, the bad, and the ambiguous. Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

November 27, 2018, 10:24 AM	#12
John E.B. Rawton Member Join Date: September 22, 2018 Posts: 68	I know that you are looking for pros and cons and this reply is neither. I once was talking to my father and questioned whether or not I paid too much for a particular used gun and he said “ If I was happy with it then it was not too much “ I buy the guns I want to shoot and unfortunately have a couple I don’t even get out anymore. If I was not going to be satisfied shooting tuned up slick race guns I’d sell them or trade in like value. I have a brace of pistols most people would not consider shooting regularly but I am satisfied and I get enjoyment from them. I think this is like comparing apples and oranges and if money wasn’t the issue I’d get what I want and not look back. The rugers you have are setup for one type of shooting and the ubertis are going to be something else altogether unless you invest in slicking them up.

November 27, 2018, 11:17 AM	#13
denster Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 581	I don't consider the 75s bad just not of the quality of Uberti's SAA although there I prefer the EMF Great Western II. I'm sure 45 Dragoon could slick up the 75s into real race guns. The Vaqueros can be slicked up but as to feel it depends on which you have. The first Vaqueros were on the blackhawk frame and were larger and heavier than a Colt. Then Ruger came out with the New Vaquero at same basic size and feel as a Colt. A major improvement to my mind. Then they made it confusing by dropping the "New" and just calling them Vaquero but of the smaller size.

November 27, 2018, 11:20 AM	#14
Trum4n1208 Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2013 Posts: 173	For my 2 cents, I had two Uberti 1875's in .45 Colt. I loved them, great guns. My only problem with them was they didn't handle Black Powder well, and I primarily shoot BP cartridges. I sold them off due to pressing financial need, but I want another, in .44-40 this time. If I could get one with a better gas collar for BP, then it would be the perfect single action revolver for me. Just my opinion.

November 27, 2018, 02:06 PM	#15
Driftwood Johnson Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2014 Location: Land of the Pilgrims Posts: 2,033	Howdy Forget getting extra money because they have been tuned up. It is doubtful anyone will pay extra for that. That is just the way it is. Price them as used guns and be happy with what you can get for them. No opinion about whether to keep the Rugers or go with the 1875 Remingtons. The 1875 Remington has a slightly longer grip with more space between the trigger guard and the grip than a Colt or Ruger. Some folks like that, some don't. I have no opinion as to the workmanship of the 1875s vs an Uberti Colt clone. No practical experience with 1875 clones. Regarding shooting 44-40 loaded with Black Powder, that is all I shoot in my CAS rifles, except for one original 1873 Winchester chambered for 38-40. So I am quite used to loading Black Powder in a 44-40, or 38-40, or 45 Colt or 45 Schofield. I am used to the extra hassles involved with loading for Black Powder. And just so you know, it is not the bottleneck case of the 44-40 or 38-40 that keeps blowback out of the action of a rifle. High pressure gas has no problem going around corners. 44-40 (and 38-40) brass tends to be thinner at the case mouth than most other cartridges. About .007 vs about .012 for 45 Colt. It is the thinness of the brass that keeps the fouling out of the action of a rifle. The thinner brass expands more easily at relatively low pressure to seal the bore than the thicker brass of 45 Colt. That thin brass is also the reason 44-40 can be a bit fussy to reload. Easy to crumple the neck if you don't have your dies set up just right. And if you slam a 44-40 case into the bottom of the sizing/decap die it will probably crumple, whereas the more robust 45 Colt round will just shrug off the insult. Have done it a bazillion times. The answer is to set up your dies carefully, and slow down while raising the case into the die, so you can stop if you feel resistance.