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Old March 19, 2020, 04:49 PM   #1
2wheelwander
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One suppressor for rifle and pistol (piston?)

I'm brand new to this so bear with me. Looking at the 'solvent trap' kits. I will be filing a form 1 and staying legal. Lets get that out of the way.

So, technical question. D size solvent trap/suppressor kits. I'd like to run one can on an AR and a CZ Scorpion. My question is, do I need to worry about function on the CZ with a dedicated pistol can with a piston??

Or, am I overthinking this and can expect both to cycle fine? I doubt I'd do more than experiment with subsonic ammo and run normal loads 95% of the time. I do hand load.

TIA
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Old March 19, 2020, 04:56 PM   #2
FrankenMauser
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Blow-back with a fixed barrel, right?
If so, no piston required.
The extra back pressure may beat the hell out of the gun, though.
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Old March 19, 2020, 05:53 PM   #3
2wheelwander
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Yes its a fixed barrel. Elaborate on beating up the gun FrankenMauser. I'm new to this. Do you mean running full house loads? I run target loads through the CZ, nothing hot. Same for my AR's. They're toys, not home defense.
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Old March 19, 2020, 07:24 PM   #4
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Increased back pressure may (and likely, will) result in increased bolt velocity, which takes its toll on the recoil system - and the frame, in some designs*.

Think of the bolt/slide like a hammer. With every trigger pull, it goes sailing backward, only being stopped from slamming into something by some springs. Over time the springs weaken.
Now, increase the force of the hammer by adding back pressure. The springs get compressed more. They get 'hit' harder, and they weaken even faster.

Anything else in the recoil system will take the extra stress, as well: hard stops, clips, pins, screws, whatever may be stressed in the recoil system.


*The rubber buffer pad on the front side of the rear frame lug [recoil lug] in Browning Buckmarks is one way some manufacturers try to prevent damage from increased bolt/slide velocity. With standard and 'high velocity' ammunition, a Buckmark will run fine and the slide should never recoil fast enough to hit the rubber buffer - maybe a very light touch, but not an impact.

But feed the pistol 'Yellow Jackets', 'Stingers', or some other 'hyper velocity' ammo, and that buffer gets smacked with every trigger pull. If the buffer wasn't there, the slide would be stopping on the aluminum lug in the frame ... and beating the hell out of it (I've seen a few examples - it's no bueno).

By pushing the recoil system to its limit, the recoil spring also wears out significantly faster.

Add a suppressor to a Buckmark, and even standard loads may have enough slide velocity to hit the buffer. I have found that to be the case with both of mine, and the TacSol Ascent 22.
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Old March 19, 2020, 07:39 PM   #5
2wheelwander
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I appreciate the tutorial FrankenMauser. That all makes sense. The Scorpion was made to be a full auto SBR in foreign countries, I've cleaned it but made no notice of any buffer design. Most of my reloads I load to the entry level suggestions on the chart of whatever powder I use at the time, which I would think would help?

So as I'm reading your original post - a Beretta 92 for example - with a tilting barrel design are the types that would need a piston in the suppressor? Am I understanding that the piston is to take up pressure so as not to beat the gun up, especially with full house loads?
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Old March 20, 2020, 12:17 AM   #6
FrankenMauser
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Aye.
A piston's function is to effectively "disconnect" (or buffer the weight of) the suppressor from the recoil system of a firearm, in order to not interfere with function.
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Old March 21, 2020, 08:56 AM   #7
Willie Lowman
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The purpose of the piston is to increase recoil so the pistol will function with the extra weight hanging on the end of the muzzle.

Without it, tilting barrel actions will not unlock properly when fired.
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Old March 21, 2020, 11:27 AM   #8
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In an analytical world, you could calculate the gas volume produced, recoil forces involved, optimum volume of the suppressor and numerous other factors in finding a perfect solvent trap for the AR and Scorpion. But considering there's a fair number out there already, you should be fine, but you need to carefully try it the first time, particularly with any modifications you make.

Good luck and let us know how it works.
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Old March 24, 2020, 11:14 AM   #9
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I tried my Beretta 92FS supressed in both configs , piston buffered, and fixed with my Griffin Rev45 can. My 92 functioned w/ piston buffer perfect, but when i swapped to a fixed end cap, my result was a silenced semi-auto single shot.
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Old March 24, 2020, 11:33 AM   #10
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I have needed the booster on some 9mm locked breech pistols. Adding a suppressor is weight, and that retards, not increases, velocity. The exact opposite of what FrankenMauser is talking about with a fixed barrel. That said, the backpressure from the solvent trap configuration is almost non existent as compared to a manufactured suppressor.
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Old March 24, 2020, 01:30 PM   #11
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You're confusing two different statements about different systems.
Posts #4 and #6 are clearly responses to different questions. One addresses fixed barrels and blow-back designs. The other is in regards to locked breech systems (like the short-recoil operated Beretta 92).
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Old March 24, 2020, 03:46 PM   #12
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Read my post slowly FrankenMauser, not contradicting your posts at all.
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Old March 24, 2020, 05:58 PM   #13
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Indeed.
I guess I should wake up before attempting to internet.





(Yes, I slept in that late, today. )
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Old March 24, 2020, 08:48 PM   #14
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No worries. I had a terrible posting day a few back with lots of mistakes. It's all good.
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