Texas School Shooting

[FITASC]

because we had no service to call 911 to let anyone know that there was a shooter.”

I have never seen a classroom that didn't have a phone on the wall - never.

[rickyrick]

Who the heck doesn’t have a phone in their pocket these days?

[BarryLee]

It seems the debate about school safety needs to be separate from the debate about guns. I know many people will disagree when the bad guy/guys used guns, but considering what type of gun they used no level of gun control would have prevented this. Hardening the target is the answer with things like metal detectors, limited access, locked classrooms, etc. Sadly I fear many are allowing their personal hatred of guns and gun owners to cloud their judgment as it relates to what might actually help.

[FITASC]

Sadly I fear many are allowing their personal hatred of guns and gun owners to cloud their judgment as it relates to what might actually help.

Change "many" to Soros and Bloomberg, and it's spot on......

[BarryLee]

Change "many" to Soros and Bloomberg, and it's spot on......

While I tend to take a more Libertarian approach to things I have friends who may lean to the political left. Many of them dislike guns and gun owners for what might be considered political reasons. When I discuss the facts they often will agree with me, but more and more see gun control as sort of a litmus test for the more politically progressive. So, this irrational dislike for guns is not just among a few political or cultural elites, but is growing throughout the county and we really need ways to counteract these flawed opinions.

[44 AMP]

Hardening the target is the answer with things like metal detectors, limited access, locked classrooms, etc

No, I'm sorry, but its not the answer, either. Ok, if you have to do something, then "hardening" the school is better (for me, for you, and for the nation) than more gun control.

BUT

Its not the answer, and its not going to stop the problem of mass murder in schools. I won't go so far as to call it the elephant in the room, but its there, and its being virtually ignored.

The killers ARE SCHOOL KIDS!!!!

They are students who are going to the school (or former students who recently went to the school). They know what the defenses are, where they are, when they are, and can plan to get around them. Here's a point to consider, "active shooter training" doesn't just train the teachers and students what to do, it ALSO trains the active shooter to be, if he's one of the students at the school...

No matter what the defenses are, if there is a way through them, the people who know what way are the people who see, are around, and pass through those defenses every day.

There's no free lunch, there's no easy solution. If you teach people what to do, and not do in a mass shooting, you are also teaching potential mass killers what the plan is, and they can "adapt and overcome" and use your very response as part of their plan.

There is no way to stop a death seeking nihilist, jihadist, kamikaze (or what ever term fits best) BEFORE they do anything. The best we can hope for is to physically stop them during the attack. Those who plan on their own deaths,(and have the personal courage to carry that out) are NOT stopped by fear of any law, or any punishment. NOR are they stopped by gun control, or any physical defenses. At most, such things just make their task a little more complex, while placing burdens on people who have done nothing wrong.

[Ricklin]

We reap what we sow.

As a society we are now reaping. We sowed a generation of kids that did not know how to loose.
Every child gets an award! There can be no looser's, only winners.

When these children become young adults they lack essential coping skills. Some then act out and spiral downward.

We do not have a gun problem. How can an inanimate object be a problem?

We do have a mental health crisis.

[Tom Servo]

The killers ARE SCHOOL KIDS!!!!

Yep. School kids who plan mass murder in order to make themselves celebrities.

And that's the problem. This isn't an issue of hardware, but of software. Guns aren't more "readily available" than they were when I was in high school. There haven't been any technical advances to make guns more lethal. The problem is deeper, and it's one I fear we don't have the courage to address.

As a culture, we celebrate violence. We worship celebrity. We are raising narcissistic kids with meager problem-solving skills and a very skewed sense of priorities. We have to ask why we're raising monsters.

And that's something we aren't willing to do. Instead, let's listen to the guy who bangs the lectern and promises us this will never happen again if we just ban a class of guns. Then it happens again. But we have short memories and we crave easy "solutions," so we ban more stuff. Rinse and repeat.

I'm not the least bit surprised the shooter set explosives. That was the original plan with Columbine, and the media turned those kids into folk heroes. Every school shooter we've had since then has studied those kids like musicians study Bach.

[745SW]

In the distant past when I went to school there were fights, teasing and bullies. Today it appears to be much worse with some schools made like a prison with a catwalk in the auditorium.

Noticed buckshot was used, pricey compared to birdshot. I've bought birdshot by the case but buckshot usually by the five pack.

[Rangerrich99]

Originally Posted by FITASC

I have never seen a classroom that didn't have a phone on the wall - never.

Perhaps you meant, "these days." I don't recall seeing any phones in any classrooms as a child, all the way through high school. Okay, one phone, in the high school's science lab.

[JohnKSa]

... the media turned those kids into folk heroes. Every school shooter we've had since then has studied those kids like musicians study Bach.

This is an important point. Whatever else motivates a kid to go on a murder spree at school, there's also, in the background, the understanding that their actions will make them a celebrity, at least at some level and for some timeframe.

This background motivation is going to remain an issue until things are handled differently so that these killers don't get a publicity bonus as a result of their reprehensible actions.

[zxcvbob]

I think the media deliberately (but perhaps subconsciously) makes the killers into folk heroes because they want more incidents to occur. Because school shootings make for good headlines.

I'm giving them a *lot* of benefit of the doubt with the "perhaps subconsciously" qualifier; I actually don't think it's subconscious at all; I think it's deliberate and they are that evil. And then they blame us for it. But I could be wrong.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The effect of media egging on the next shooter has been said by experts for years. I went to presentations on this since Columbine. The same has been said for non violent suicides also. Every memorial is a vicarious reward for the next shooter or suicide.

Some schools have adopted a no memorial policy for the non violent suicides. I know folks want them and some fools want their moment of fame by being interviewed. It is a mistake.

[HiBC]

There are those who want to take away the RTKBA. There are those who choose to advance political tension.
They are so committed to the ideology these shootings represent opportunity to exploit.
To many everyday folks,a focus on the "thing",the tool,is the easiest.Its the most superficial "instant pudding" remedy.
Many people do not think on the level of Liberty,or the ability to defend themselves.
Particularly to the non-gun folks,the (illusion ) transaction is "I don't even own a gun,and if we give up guns people stop getting killed"

Yet Chicago is,legally,essentially a "gun free zone"

Tom Servo makes a great point. I worked in the public schools 10 years.Every kid knows a pebble on the threshold at the door jam will prevent an outside door from locking.

Many classrooms have exit doors. That makes great sense for fire danger.

Teachers prop those doors open for spring fresh air. And mice,leaves,etc. And killers.

Picture a middle school girls track or softball team out on the field with the coach.The girl's locker room outside door will be propped open so the girls have rest room access. And so does a predator.(After school the public has access to campus)

Yet,on paper,all these schools have a secure limited access school. That goes out the window when its inconvenient.

At this point,by whatever means we agree to,rapid,embedded armed intervention seems the only effective means to minimize casualties.

In the future? I suggest as we develop cities or towns,remember the old "One school section per township" idea.

What if we would co-locate ,on one 160 acre campus,three school buildings,k-12, a police substation,office,etc,an ambulance station,and maybe a fire emergency station.
Along with a park.
These satellite locations may have benefits throughout the community. A train or traffic jam won't compromise response time. The Parks dept maintains the school yard,etc.

And armed response is never more than 200 yds away.
More important,video monitoring can be at a whole new level

Communication tech makes school collocated law enforcement offices feasible,for now.

We still need to address "Why do people kill each other"

And that means very uncomfortable challenges and conversations about dehumanization and respect for human life. The family. Fathers,. Spirituality.
Etc.
Maybe not here,but where?

We have been socially engineered into something that does not work.

By the "Experts" in charge. We need a change. What has been viewed as "Progress" is maybe "Not so much"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another topic:

I'm giving them a *lot* of benefit of the doubt with the "perhaps subconsciously" qualifier; I actually don't think it's subconscious at all; I think it's deliberate and they are that evil. And then they blame us for it. But I could be wrong.

I do not believe these killers can be engineered as a conspiracy. That would be nuts.

But we have seen,and are discovering,how agencies can be corrupted for politics.
I don't necessarily believe that every "dropped ball" (failure to prevent the preventable) is an accident. Slipping through the cracks and bureaucratic incompetence come with plausible deniability.

A school shooting that is prevented comes with no political fuel and no sensational media. "Drop the ball" and it may change an election with the passions.
Yes,I'm that cynical,and yes,I believe the lives of kids would be sacrificed for a political campaign.
IMO,Fast and Furious was about sacrificing lives a Mexican people to push anti-gun law. I have no faith in any limit of what evil politics will do.

Florida? Texas? Red?Blue? No accusations. Lets be vigilant.

[TomNJVA]

There is probably no single solution to school shootings, but perhaps a number of small steps in the right direction. One would be to have someone watch the students entering the school, either an armed resource officer or on a video connection. Kind of hard to hide a rifle, and any long trench coats like the one this shooter was wearing would trigger a search.

[Aguila Blanca]

Someone mentioned the elephant in the room. There are more than one elephant, and one of them is bullying. And reports are now coming out -- from fellow students -- that this shooter was bullied. The Parkland kid was somewhat of an outcast --- I don't know if he was "bullied," but he wasn't exactly the homecoming king. The two shooters at Columbine were social outcasts. If we dug into all the school shootings between Columbine and Santa Fe I suspect we'd find a lot more of the shooters were bullied or in some way excluded from the society of the student population in general.

But the schools don't want tio deal with it, because they don't want to face the answer. I saw it, up close and personal. My adopted daughter was bullied at our local high school (where, many years before, I was captain of the tennis team and class president) to the point of having a nervous breakdown and not being able to set foot on the school property. I complained to the point of the federal Department of Education conducting a six-month investigation -- at the end of which they concluded that there had been no bullying. That's how well the school covered it up. Privately, a teacher in the school told me that of course it happened. She knew because the same thing had happened to her own son, two years before. And the school simply denied that it happened in her case, too.

Could it be that my adopted daughter has a severe case of special snowflake-itis? She does tend in that direction, and I recognize it. But ... we enrolled her in a private, parochial school and she excelled. So it wasn't entirely in her imagination. A huge difference is that the parochial school doesn't let the inmates run the asylum. The teachers are strict, and they don't tolerate bullying. At the local high school, the teachers look the other way because they don't want to deal with it. Same with the administration. So they pull a Sergeant Schulz -- "I saw nussing, I know nussing!"

We, as a nation, need to start getting serious about stopping bullying.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by HiBC

What if we would co-locate ,on one 160 acre campus,three school buildings,k-12, a police substation,office,etc,an ambulance station,and maybe a fire emergency station.
Along with a park.
These satellite locations may have benefits throughout the community. A train or traffic jam won't compromise response time. The Parks dept maintains the school yard,etc.

And armed response is never more than 200 yds away.

Except that most armed cops aren't in the station except at shift change, they're out on patrol.

[scpapa]

At the local high school, the teachers look the other way because they don't want to deal with it. Same with the administration. So they pull a Sergeant Schulz -- "I saw nussing, I know nussing!"

I think some if it is that the teachers know that they will be held responsible, in a negative way, if they try to discipline them. They will be sued, fired, demonized, etc. The students know they have a lot of power and they use it to their advantage.

Rick

[TomNJVA]

I was bullied for a few years in high school some 50 years ago. No one told me I was allowed to shoot the bully. Dang!

[johnwilliamson062]

The teacher getting involved won't necessarily make things better. Most teachers know that.

Sent from my SM-J327P using Tapatalk

[Metal god]

There are more than one elephant, and one of them is bullying

While I'm not going to dismiss it out of hand and every situation is different . I don't by the bully argument . Reason being is it appears to me like so many other things the threshold of being bullied has become quite low . When I was in school being bullied was almost always physical . Now a days is someone makes fun of your hair more then once you're being bullied . Get over it maybe your hair does look funny to others .

This seems to go to this new movement that everybody is a victim of some sort as a result of some kind of oppression . Oppressed because your a women , black , Asian , gay , trans , young , fat , skinny , poor the list goes on . Oh wait then there's I'm oppressed because I'm two or more of those things . Could it be that your just human and that in it self is not an easy thing to navigate .

Bullies have been around since the beginning of time and yet these incidents have only become more and more frequent as the individual has been able to observer these types of behaviors more often with greater ease .

Do we dare talk about social media and how it has made are kids more dependent on hundreds if not thousands of there piers excepting them . In my day I was only looking for acceptance from about 10 to 20 people out side my family . That as a young person is really not to hard to navigate . How ever now a days kids unrealistically feel they need to be excepted by way to many people that are just trolling them in the first place . How much pressure does that put on there young minds to do something more to be liked and or excepted . What happens when there extra effort does not produce the result they are looking for . Well now there is despair that they may never get out from under this weight of unwarranted judgement cast upon them . There is only so much any of us could take before something needs to change . The vast majority of are kids ultimately navigate there way through . How ever there is a very small minority that break from the pressure and react very negatively .

Well that got a little deeper then I intended ,. I'm going to stop because I feel rambling coming on .

[HiBC]

Except that most armed cops aren't in the station except at shift change, they're out on patrol.

With the right mind set,every idea proposed can be blasted out of the air like a clay pigeon at a skeet range.
And with the right mindset,many ideas,or improvements on those ideas,can work quite well.

My proposal was about doing something different.Why would we do something different the same way?

It might be that co-locating a park,police,fire,ambulance satellites and K through 12 schools on one campus might be a plan for future secure community development.

Maybe not.

What positive idea do you have to offer?

[SonOfScubaDiver]

I think the window for actually doing anything about school shootings has closed. They've become a common occurrence. We can talk all day about doing this, that, or the other, but that's all it is--talk. Blame it on whatever you want--godlessness, bullying, social media--it doesn't matter. Nothing's going to be done about it. We've come apart at the seams as a country.

[L2R]

Most everyone is looking for the smoking gun when a accident happens or a tragedy occurs.

I am paraphrasing from Malcolm Gladwell's book and referencing plane crashes to illustrate the point. It is never 1 thing that causes a plane crash. It is almost always 5 or 6 small errors happening at the same time that lead to a crash.

I believe that many posts above pinpoint many things that are adding up to this behavior.
The media giving murderers 15 minutes of fame
Hollywood promoting and celebrating violence
Bullying
Parents not around to raise their children
Parents protecting their kids to the point they cannot handle conflict or defeat.
Parents allowing the internet and to be the babysitter. and curiosity be their guide.
Safe zones where cowards are impowered

Add it all up and it becomes clear how this is happening. Add a few of these together and it becomes the tipping point (pun intended)

If Gladwell's research is accurate, then removing some of these issues would yield a reduction in mass murders. It would be interesting to chart when these activities became the norm in our society and see if there is a correlation to the number of mass murders in a given year.

[Bimus]

A lot of boys and girls under 18 hunt and from age 11 can buy a state hunting license . under 11 they must be accompanied by an adult . The youth has to have a Hunter Education number issued by the state . These youths are in the system the state knows where they live and that they promise to obey safety rules . The hunter safety lets them carry a loaded long gun in the field or a unloaded long gun to the shooting range .

Maybe high school students that have hunters safety training should be allowed to carry a cased long gun to school with there bullets in there pocket the cased gun is never to be opened unless there is a active shooter . I would hope they would never have to take there rifle out of the case . They could make hiding in a class room a little safer .

School have be come targets even students should be allowed to protect them selves and siblings when they are targeted .