The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > The Smithy

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old March 29, 2014, 06:48 AM   #1
gyvel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 30, 2009
Location: Northern AZ
Posts: 7,172
S&W .38-44 Hypothetical Conversion?

Here's a hypothetical question about a Smith & Wesson early post-war .38-44 Outdoorsman:

Assuming one could find a decent N frame cylinder with extractor in .357 Magnum, woiuld it be feasible to convert an Outdoorsman to .357? (I.e. would the gun withstand the pressure, pounding, etc.?)

(All of this assumes that you can get it timed properly, achieve correct headspace, cylinder gap, etc.)
gyvel is offline  
Old March 29, 2014, 12:27 PM   #2
Peter M. Eick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 3, 1999
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 2,991
As a 38/44 collector I am aghast that you would contemplate it. Just get a pre-28/27 and have something that is properly heat treated.

All of that said, you can run just a reamer in the cylinder and turn the 38/44 OD into a 357 magnum. No other changes are necessary.

BUT

The heat treating done to the 38/44 is different than those down to the 357 Magnum. Also you have hurt the collector value to the gun as folks like me would not buy a conversion like that.

So my summary
1) Could you? Yes
2) Should you? NO
3) Is it wise? Defiantly not.
__________________
10mm and 357sig, the best things to come along since the 38 super!
Peter M. Eick is offline  
Old March 29, 2014, 07:00 PM   #3
jaguarxk120
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 28, 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,618
In terms of value, if I seen one for sale, that would be a walk away gun, no run away.

Hand chambering, converting a classic, unknown loading through it!
jaguarxk120 is offline  
Old March 29, 2014, 11:26 PM   #4
gyvel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 30, 2009
Location: Northern AZ
Posts: 7,172
Quote:
As a 38/44 collector I am aghast that you would contemplate it.
Regarding collector value, the gun is maybe a 30-40% gun to begin with. Collectors like "conditon" and "this one ain't got it."

What I was talking about was obtaining a .357 magnum cylinder assembly and using that to shoot .357. Presumably, the cylinder would have the necessary heat treating to withstand the pressure generated by .357.

Since the entire cylinder assembly wiould be replaced, no permanent changes would be made to the gun, thus, what little collector's value the gun has would not be affected.

The reason I considered this is that, to me, this is just too big a clunk to be shooting .38 Special.

However, if the heat treating of the frame, etc. is not up to .357 standards, I can see that the conversion is not a good idea.

Last edited by gyvel; March 30, 2014 at 12:20 AM.
gyvel is offline  
Old March 30, 2014, 08:05 AM   #5
Goatwhiskers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 8, 2009
Location: Batchelor, La.
Posts: 579
Well, first you'd have to find a cylinder. Then would come the fun of fitting and timing the thing. All can be done if you have the knowledge, but it's not a drop-in part. GW
Goatwhiskers is offline  
Old March 30, 2014, 08:45 AM   #6
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 18,486
Full house .38-44 is not all that less powerful than .357 AS PRESENTLY LOADED.
Buffalo Bore "Outdoorsman" is listed as a 158 at 1250 in 6".

I bet Peter can give you guidelines to loading for the original .38-44 ballistics.
Or look up Elmer Keith and Skeeter Skelton's take on maximum .38 Special.

Considering the likely price and installation cost of a magnum cylinder, I would see if the original ammo type was manly enough.

I would pay to have a good shooting 40% HD properly refinished, though short of a restoration.
Jim Watson is offline  
Old March 30, 2014, 10:15 AM   #7
gyvel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 30, 2009
Location: Northern AZ
Posts: 7,172
Numrich has Model 27 cylinder assemblies for around $150.00, both "old" and "new" types.

It's an interesting gun, and I did take the trouble to track down an original post-war type long-throw hammer (cut for the sliding hammer block) to replace the 1917 hammer that was in it, but I have many other K frame .38s that I prefer to shoot. To me, as I said before, .38 Sp. in a gun this big is just too much of a clunk.
gyvel is offline  
Old March 30, 2014, 11:10 AM   #8
Peter M. Eick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 3, 1999
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 2,991
Load up some real 38/44 ammo first before you change the gun out. Even a 30% gun has value to a collector.

I would suggest you start around 5 grns of Unique and work up slowly to 6.5 grns with a 158 lead swc. 5.5 grns gives you 1044 fps with a 5" barrel.

The other one to try is 4756 with a 158 lswc. If you start at 6 grns and work your self up to 7.5 grns you are solidly in 38/44\357 Magnum territory. 7.5 grns does 1199 fps out of my 5" HD. If you push on to 8 grns (not recommended), you get 1246 fps out of a 5" HD.

Give it a try but be cautious and work up slowly. You are into real magnum power ranges and pressure as you get up around 7 grns. At that point the extra steel is quite comforting.
__________________
10mm and 357sig, the best things to come along since the 38 super!
Peter M. Eick is offline  
Old March 30, 2014, 01:08 PM   #9
gyvel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 30, 2009
Location: Northern AZ
Posts: 7,172
I think I still have some Unique squirreled away. My press is a bit dusty as I have not reloaded much of anything lately with the advent of cheap surplus ammo. That situation, however, is changing.
gyvel is offline  
Old March 31, 2014, 07:17 AM   #10
gyvel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 30, 2009
Location: Northern AZ
Posts: 7,172
Well, once again, my face is red and I have egg on my face. (More frequent senior moments.)

I haven't paid any attention to this gun for quite a while and it's just been hanging on a peg in my vault.

It's not a .38/44 Outdoorsman, it's a 5" .38/44 Heavy Duty, S/N S 681xx, it's a long-throw action, that limits it to 1947. And I would have to say it's closer to 30% than 40.

I guess the same reloading data would reply.

Last edited by gyvel; March 31, 2014 at 03:49 PM.
gyvel is offline  
Old March 31, 2014, 02:15 PM   #11
Peter M. Eick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 3, 1999
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 2,991
Yes the same load data applies.

Keep in mind that even a 30% HD from 1947 is probably worth about a grand today depending on where you try and sell it. It is not a cheap gun to just convert on a whim.

From a practical standpoint why not work up some decent 38/44 loads and learn to enjoy the gun "as is". The money you save from the conversion will pay for a lot of experimenting and shooting in it.
__________________
10mm and 357sig, the best things to come along since the 38 super!
Peter M. Eick is offline  
Old March 31, 2014, 03:53 PM   #12
gyvel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 30, 2009
Location: Northern AZ
Posts: 7,172
Quote:
Keep in mind that even a 30% HD from 1947 is probably worth about a grand today depending on where you try and sell it.
Wow! That's a surprise! I figured it might be worth $400-450 tops.
gyvel is offline  
Old March 31, 2014, 04:46 PM   #13
steveno
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 18, 2004
Location: Minden , Nebraska
Posts: 1,407
if you really want to try some loads find some of the older Lyman reloading manuals as there are some specific 38-44 loads for the heavy frame revolvers using 2400 powder.

Last edited by steveno; April 1, 2014 at 01:45 AM.
steveno is offline  
Old April 1, 2014, 02:35 AM   #14
gyvel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 30, 2009
Location: Northern AZ
Posts: 7,172
I have some of the older Lyman books from the late 60s-early70s.

Edit: After mulling this over, it ocurred to me that replacing the cylinder would be the same as having a Model 27 or 28.

Last edited by gyvel; April 2, 2014 at 05:32 PM.
gyvel is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.07021 seconds with 10 queries