|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
July 3, 2020, 01:01 PM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 3, 2020
Posts: 163
|
Factory crimp die needed for 380
I’m considering the Lee 3 die set vs the 4 die set for 380. I’ll be using Berry’s plated 90, 95 and 100 gr bullets. Is it necessary to have the factory crimp die? I realize it is optional on some cartridges. Does the seater die also double as a taper crimp with the 3 die set? The description doesn’t explicitly say that. I’m comfortable doing the setup for seating and crimping on 1 die, but not sure if it’s ok w plated bullets.
Thanks. |
July 3, 2020, 01:08 PM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 9, 2016
Posts: 588
|
Yes, pretty much all straight wall rimless seat dies also taper crimp. Factory crimp dies are not necessary. If used wrong, they can actually swage the bullet diameter down
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk |
July 3, 2020, 01:16 PM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 3, 2006
Location: Brockport, NY
Posts: 3,717
|
I always order the Lee 4 die set. I own multiple handguns in the same cartridge, so its a nice die to use to ensure that the rounds will chamber in all my handguns
__________________
You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth. |
July 3, 2020, 02:16 PM | #4 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 3, 2020
Posts: 163
|
Quote:
Thanks, |
|
July 3, 2020, 02:22 PM | #5 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 3, 2006
Location: Brockport, NY
Posts: 3,717
|
The 4th die is also a carbide sizing die, it assists in making sure every round is within the specs for that cartridge.
Snip from the Lee site: Quote:
__________________
You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth. |
|
July 3, 2020, 02:28 PM | #6 | |
Staff
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,839
|
Quote:
I've been loading since the early 70s without one and my ammo works just fine in the guns I have, including multiple guns in the same calibers. The Lee factory crimp die may be a good tool, I don't know, never used one. Some people say it works wonders. I've always thought it was a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better. |
|
July 3, 2020, 03:35 PM | #7 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 9, 2016
Posts: 588
|
Quote:
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk |
|
July 3, 2020, 10:14 PM | #8 |
Member
Join Date: January 24, 2016
Posts: 69
|
I have the Lee 4-die carbide set for all my pistol rounds. Never had a problem with the FCD. I believe the FCD is the most controversial piece of reloading equipment.
|
July 4, 2020, 01:17 AM | #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 19, 2018
Location: Centerville, OH
Posts: 347
|
Another option, if you’re just looking to take the bell out of the case (proper straight wall semi-auto crimp) and you have a 9mm die, just use it. Properly set up, of course.
A review of my Hornady dies indicated the only difference between the .380ACP set and the 9mm Luger set is the sizing die. Expander, Crimp, Seater....all the same since the mouth of .380ACP and mouth of 9mm Luger are the same. At least I got 2 boxes of “free bullets” by buying separate die sets.
__________________
“Draw me not without reason, sheath me not without honor.” |
July 4, 2020, 06:58 AM | #10 | |
Staff
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 18,468
|
Quote:
Per SAAMI, .380 ACP should have a case OD of .3730 at the mouth, and .3731 at .04" back from the mouth. 9mm should have an OD of .3800 at the mouth and .3811 at .04 back from the mouth. That difference of .007 could mean the difference between chambering properly, or not chambering properly.
__________________
NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO 1911 Certified Armorer Jeepaholic |
|
July 4, 2020, 09:39 AM | #11 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 6, 2011
Location: Thornton, Texas
Posts: 3,998
|
These days I always get the Lee 4 die set. I shoot a lot of cast bullets in my revolvers, and occasionally I’ll have trouble chambering a reload. The FCD fixes that. I can’t remember having any chambering issues with jacketed or plated bullets.
I find it interesting that people get so worked over the FCD die. Having one does not mean your reloading is suspect. Of course, neither does it mean that your reloading is not suspect. My use of the FCD is almost always limited to the 357 and those cast bullets.I have come to believe that some of the 357 cases are a touch too long (I shoot mixed brass, new and old), which rolls the crimp a bit more than necessary, and causes the chambering problem. |
July 4, 2020, 11:39 AM | #12 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 15, 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,566
|
It seems to work better on any Semi round to taper crimp AFTER seating the bullet. If Not, you are pushing the bullet deeper into the case (Or flattening the bullet nose) while crimping. Ask me how I know this.............
|
July 4, 2020, 12:29 PM | #13 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 3, 2020
Posts: 163
|
Quote:
Last edited by BondoBob; July 4, 2020 at 12:53 PM. |
|
July 4, 2020, 02:01 PM | #14 | |
Staff
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,839
|
Quote:
Not only is the case mouth a different size, the 9mm case tapers to .391" at the case head, while the .380's widest point is the rim at .374" And, there is 0.74" difference in the case LENGTH as well. This won't matter to an expander die, since all they are is a wide open die body to hold the expander stem, but it DOES matter to a seating die. Especially the length.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better. |
|
July 4, 2020, 03:03 PM | #15 |
Staff
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 21,063
|
The expander die and a seating die with no crimp, like the Dillon dies, can be made to match due to using the same bullet diameter and bullet nose shapes, but the sizing die and the crimp die may differ. The Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die will certainly differ at its carbide ring.
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle |
July 4, 2020, 04:02 PM | #16 |
Staff
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,839
|
Do we assume that a seater die, with no crimp, is still made to remove case mouth flare, and return the brass to its proper spec (or slightly under) ???
If this is the case, then I would think the nominal .007" difference between the 9mm and .380 case mouths would be an issue. I'm probably out of the loop, since all my pistol dies (with one exception, the .44AMP) have a built in crimp in the seater die. I even have old .45ACP die that does a roll crimp! (for the .45 Auto Rim, but also usable with ACP brass) I would think that a 9mm seater die wouldn't "unflared" a .380 case enough, especially since the .380 is not only smaller in diameter but also shorter, and so wouldn't get the full "squeeze" a 9mm die is capable of, and a .380 die would squeeze a 9mm too much. I once loaded .38 Super brass in .38 Special dies. The Super brass got squeezed down more than needed, and it wasn't "right" but the ammo did function and fire ok. Sometimes, there can be a difference between what's right, and what works.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better. |
July 4, 2020, 04:49 PM | #17 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 28, 2006
Posts: 4,342
|
A word of warning if buying a Lee .380 die set. Odds are before you are done you will need their "undersized" sizing die in order to obtain sufficient neck tension to prevent bullet setback. Few years back I bought my two sons .380 LCPs for Christmas. They asked me to reload for them and since I didn;t already reload .380 and did not intend to reload a lot of .380, I thought I'd save a few bucks and get Lee dies instead of the more expensive RCBS. After the first 100 or so I noticed bullet setback and tried a few things like flaring as little as possible. What I found was, that after resizing I did not need to flare at all to get the bullet to start in the case. When I contacted Lee, they said they "knew" they had an issue with their standard .380 sizing die with "certain" brands of brass. For me, it was with all types of brass, including the thickest, Starline. Their solution? Buy their "undersized" die for $29 plus $8 shipping. In the end it cost me more for the Lee dies than it would have for RCBS. I don't know why, if they know they have an issue with their standard .380 they just don't fix the problem instead of making you buy another die that cost as much as their standard 4 die set. I have since seen multiple threads and posts about others having this same problem....but only with Lee dies. With the "undersized" die, I now have plenty of neck tension regardless of brass. My beef is, that I had to buy it in the first place.
|
July 4, 2020, 04:56 PM | #18 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 6, 2011
Location: Thornton, Texas
Posts: 3,998
|
I’m glad you mentioned that. I need to order some 380 dies.
|
July 4, 2020, 06:47 PM | #19 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 3, 2020
Posts: 163
|
Quote:
I wonder would the Lee dies be ok without the undersized if using 356 bullets. Were you using 355 dia bullets Buck? Last edited by BondoBob; July 4, 2020 at 07:11 PM. |
|
July 4, 2020, 08:02 PM | #20 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 27, 2010
Location: Lakeland,TN
Posts: 220
|
I have all Lee dies except for .223 which is a RCBS set-and still use a Lee FCD.
I reload .380-9mm-.40S&W-.45ACP-.357 Mag-.41 Mag-300AAC and all these are Lee in either the 3 or 4 die set's. I have never had a problem with any Lee die's.
__________________
THE CROW |
July 4, 2020, 08:14 PM | #21 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 3, 2020
Posts: 163
|
I'm sure many will have no problems. But it makes me wonder why they even have to offer an undersized die.
|
July 4, 2020, 08:16 PM | #22 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 3, 2020
Posts: 163
|
RCBS dies with Lee Autodrum
Has anyone used a Lee Autodrum powder measure with RCBS dies? Can that work?
|
July 5, 2020, 12:29 AM | #23 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: In the valley above the plain
Posts: 13,424
|
Quote:
It's snake oil in search of more snake oil. Or, in rare instances, snake oil that stumbles upon a justifiable application. (Though still less than ideal and harmful to downrange performance.) Quote:
If you want to drop powder charges through a standard die, you need the Lee PTE die.
__________________
Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe. |
||
July 5, 2020, 01:10 AM | #24 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 9, 2016
Posts: 588
|
I used the auto drum with the Lee powder through expander. I really liked it
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk |
July 5, 2020, 07:49 AM | #25 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 3, 2020
Posts: 163
|
Well, after researching this further I'm going ahead with the Lee 4 dies set and take my chances. I can either use or not use the FCD. I found that much of the issue necessitating the undersized .003 die was due to picking up others range brass which I'm not planning on doing much of. I'll be capturing my own brass and keeping track of how many times I reload it. I'm using Federal, Winchester and Starline brass. Also I'm using 356 dia bullets not 355. So, hopefully I won't need to spend the additional $29 on an undersized die. I'll update this post if I do.
|
|
|