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Old November 2, 2017, 07:02 PM   #1
Slugman1187
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Grizzly defense with a Shotgun

Many folks have asked, should you try to stop a charging ticked off 800 lb Grizzly with s shotgun? The answer is use what you have!! I have several hunting buddies that Montana in the middle of Grizzly country who have killed big bears that were charging off of narrow trails. John stopped one with his Remington 870 using 3" Brenneke Black Magic Mag Slugs. The first shot hit him in the right shoulder which almost took his leg off. The bear spun around and continued his charge at another hunter in the party. John quickly fired the second shot striking the bear in the upper back shattering his spine which dropped the Bear in his tracks. John swears by the Brenneke 1 3/8 oz hard cast slug, and will continue to depend on his 870 for anything within a 50 yd. Charge.
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Old November 2, 2017, 07:46 PM   #2
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Some years ago my wife and I were in a group of visitors in Glacier National Park that were escorted down a trail by a park ranger carrying a Remington 870 12 ga. with a short barrel. I assume it was loaded with Foster slugs. We were provided the armed escort because a grizzly bear had been seen in the area, presumably too close to the trail.
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Old November 2, 2017, 07:50 PM   #3
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My new tent gun here in Colorado is a Mossy shockwave (14”). I figure a 12ga at damn near muzzle contact as he comes into the tent should be effective.
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Old November 2, 2017, 09:40 PM   #4
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Great application for that gun. What ammo are you running?
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Old November 2, 2017, 11:59 PM   #5
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Great application for that gun. What ammo are you running?
This camping season (new gun) just standard 1oz slugs. I need to find some of the brenneke hard cast for next year.
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Old November 3, 2017, 01:20 AM   #6
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detail

BAck when there was a big oil spill in AK, there were details assembled to serve as bearguards for those doing clean up and wildlife work. I desperately wanted to go, but did not get selected. One of the Supv. (rank indeed has its priviledges) in our unit did. Upon arrival, they were issued Brenneke slugs for their 870's. I'd choose a Foster over anytype of buckshot, but the Brenneke are known for better penetration. Seems like I've seen Alaska Trooper episodes where they were carrying Brennekes as well.
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Old November 3, 2017, 04:48 AM   #7
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Hands down,the Brenneke over the Foster.

A soft lead Foster might be great on a deer. You can't count on them for penetration on bear according to my one experience.

Sizable AK black bear maybe 25 yds? Held the bead on the nose. Bear erect,frontal. Took out the lower incisor teeth.Bear went down and got back up. Insufficient penetration to reach CNS or break bones. Slug turned to lead cornflakes.

Shot 2,hit spine in neck. Killed him. Slug stopped dead in vertebrae. Penetration 8 in? 10,max.
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Old November 3, 2017, 07:05 AM   #8
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With nearly 2 ounces of heat treated hard cast lead, this would be my choice!

Dixie Slugs now has an 870 grain DG-IXL hard cast, heat treated 12 gauge 3" slug that runs 1200 fps from a 20" rifled barrel. This is a very specialized slug designed for Alaskan bear guides. Primarily for rifled barrels, it it is just nose heavy enough to remain stable to some 50 yards from .729"/.730" cylinder bore only smoothbore barrels.

Last edited by RMcL; November 4, 2017 at 04:46 AM.
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Old November 4, 2017, 07:23 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bamaranger View Post
BAck when there was a big oil spill in AK, there were details assembled to serve as bearguards for those doing clean up and wildlife work. I desperately wanted to go, but did not get selected. One of the Supv. (rank indeed has its priviledges) in our unit did. Upon arrival, they were issued Brenneke slugs for their 870's. I'd choose a Foster over anytype of buckshot, but the Brenneke are known for better penetration. Seems like I've seen Alaska Trooper episodes where they were carrying Brennekes as well.
I would also choose Dixie's Tri Ball Buckshot round over most slug rounds! I can't help but think that 960 grains of hard cast lead in the form of three 22 gauge, (.60"), pellets fired from a 12 bore at some 1100+ fps would do massive damage to any grizzly or polar bear at defensive ranges.

Last edited by RMcL; November 5, 2017 at 02:35 AM.
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Old November 4, 2017, 08:58 AM   #10
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We will not be hearing from any of those with experience with the wrong ammo to use.
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Old November 4, 2017, 11:40 AM   #11
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"...stop a charging ticked off 800 lb Grizzly..." You won't do that with anything. Physics won't allow it. And Yogi can cover 100 yards in under 6 seconds. A spine shot is a lucky shot, but you shoot slugs and keep shooting until he drops.
"...Buckshot..." Is totally useless and unreliable.
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Old November 4, 2017, 02:06 PM   #12
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There have been numerous tests and studies done on this. A shotgun with the right slugs in it CAN be effective. But all the research I've seen says a 30-06 rifle loaded with 200 gr or heavier bullets is much, much better.

The Alaska dept of Wildlife conducted a series of tests and surveys and determined a 375 mag was the ultimate round for their biggest bear. The 30-06 loaded with 200 or 220 gr bullets out penetrated every other round tested but 375 and 458 WM. Actually a 300 WM and 30-06 tied for 2nd place, but due to much less recoil they recommended 30-06 over 300 WM. The heavy for caliber 30's out performed everything in 33 and 35 caliber, even the magnum rounds. Shotguns, 45-70's and 444's ranked well down on the list, but would still be an option.

Finn Aagard, a PH in Africa, spent some time testing various rounds and came to the exact same conclusion on large African game.

Quote:
I would also choose Dixie's Tri Ball Buckshot round over most slug rounds! I can't help but think that 960 grains of hard cast lead in the form of three 22 gauge, (.60"), pellets fired from a 12 bore at some 1100 fps would do massive damage to any grizzly or polar bear at defensive ranges.
Any buckshot has proven to be next to useless for this. The problem is lack of penetration on a frontal shot. This is why the smaller 30 calibers with heavy bullets worked better than larger calibers such as 45-70. They penetrate deeper to give a better chance of hitting vital organs or breaking shoulders. The key to penetration is a LONG heavy bullet. Even though 45-70 shoots a heavier bullet, it's greater diameter limits penetration and it is short in relation to diameter and weight. Round balls are the worst design for penetration.
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Old November 4, 2017, 02:32 PM   #13
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Academic discussion for 99% of the people who have an opinion...fun nevertheless.

.450 Bushmaster...265 grain slugs at 2400 fps...15 of them. For fun, I loaded 10 3" slugs in my M2 (with a slug barrel) and got 10 into 12" on a bear target at 15 yards in 8 seconds. With the .450, got 10 into 5" (same target) in 4 seconds. Just for fun mind you.
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Old November 4, 2017, 10:18 PM   #14
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Comparative wet pack penetration tests.

For what its worth:

Each "pellet" in the Dixie Tri-Ball factory loaded round measure .60 caliber at 315 grains of hard cast lead each. While testing these at a Linebaugh seminar, from a distance of 20 feet, Tri-Ball buckshot penetrated from 26 to 29 inches into the wetpack. In similar tests 00B only penetrated some 5 to 7 inches into wetpack.

That same day I fired a Dixie Terminator 730 grain 12 gauge 3 inch heat treated hard cast slug into wet pack and was rewarded with 29 inches of straight line penetration.

For comparison, a Federal .416 Rigby round with a 400 grain Partition, penetrated 30 inches into the wet pack with a considerably smaller displacement of the test medium.

Last edited by RMcL; November 4, 2017 at 10:49 PM.
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Old November 5, 2017, 08:54 AM   #15
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Ever notice how many shotguns are used, with any loads, for large African game ? There is a reason.
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Old November 5, 2017, 01:21 PM   #16
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The poachers in Africa use a 30rd mag of 7.62x39 to drop Elephants.
They aren't concerned with humane, ethical, 1 shot stops.
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Old November 7, 2017, 04:55 PM   #17
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Quote:
Slugman1187 wrote:
John swears by the Brenneke 1 3/8 oz hard cast slug, and will continue to depend on his 870 for anything within a 50 yd.
I have never had to face a Gizzly bear (and I hope I never have to), but what your friend John had there sounds like the kind of thing I would want with me if I did. Of course, in my case it would be out of a Mossberg, not a Remington.
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Old November 12, 2017, 09:53 PM   #18
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There are really only two possible choices. 000 Buck or Slugs. I use Foster slugs because my Remington 870 will sometimes fail to extract a Brenneke Slug.
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Old November 13, 2017, 01:48 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Zorro View Post
There are really only two possible choices. 000 Buck or Slugs. I use Foster slugs because my Remington 870 will sometimes fail to extract a Brenneke Slug.
000B is not the largest buckshot size and with one exception todays foster type slugs lack penetration for heavy game.
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Old November 13, 2017, 11:39 AM   #20
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Being prepared is great, but planning on encountering a bear... Good luck.
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Old November 13, 2017, 11:56 AM   #21
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It is so much easier if you just put up a sign that says No Bears. Works in the city well enough.
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Old November 13, 2017, 12:06 PM   #22
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Lol.

“This campground is a Bear free zone. Move along Yoggie”
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Old November 14, 2017, 02:22 AM   #23
Doc TH
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The following technical report summarizes testing of various firearms for bear protection. They verify the post above supporting the 200 grain 30-06.

Pacific Northwest
Forest and Range
Experiment Station
General Technical
Report PNW-152
March 1983
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Old November 14, 2017, 02:14 PM   #24
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Somewhere around here I have the book, "Alaska Bear Trails". Great book, I read some to a nephew on a camping trip years ago and he didn't get one minute's sleep that night! In the book it talk's about shotgun's on bears and as I recall only the 12ga with slugs were really useable and then only at close range. They shot a Grizzly head at 20' with the 20ga and a slug and the shug was deflected away but the head. At the same distance a 12ga slug merely cracked the skull. If I was out hunting, I would not give up my rifle for a shotgun but if I was along fishing with other people I think a 12ga would be the thing to have. When I went fishing in Alaska with friend's I took along my 308 with 200gr bullet's. When I went fishing alone, I took my fishing rod!
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Old November 14, 2017, 08:48 PM   #25
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* * * They shot a Grizzly head at 20' with the 20ga and a slug and the shug was deflected away but the head. At the same distance a 12ga slug merely cracked the skull. If I was out hunting, I would not give up my rifle for a shotgun but if I was along fishing with other people I think a 12ga would be the thing to have. When I went fishing in Alaska with friend's I took along my 308 with 200gr bullet's. When I went fishing alone, I took my fishing rod!
Unless you're John Wick, ... skip the fantasy of trying to stop 800lbs of charging, p.o.-ed Grizzly with a 12ga.

Use a .375H&H or something similar in the magnum rifle class.

If I could source one, an M1 Garand chambered in .458 Win Mag would be ideal medicine for stopping the Big Bruins.

See here: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...in-mag-garand/
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