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Old July 16, 2018, 01:17 AM   #26
briandg
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Thank you, john.
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Old July 16, 2018, 01:48 AM   #27
briandg
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Something else that people should consider. IF a person recklessly disregards the background, the fact that he is being fired at won't mean much if a bystander is shot. I've heard people talk about the need for using "suppressing fire" and needing three extra magazines just to keep the bad guy in his foxhole.

That condition brings another aspect to it. Even if you were completely legal when you shot at the bad guy and cleared of all charges regarding it, a shooter can and will be held accountable for reckless behavior that leads to injury. Randomly Dumping a magazine into the car, it doesn't matter who gets hurt, there is a strong probability that charges will be filed if a bystander gets hurt, whether in the car or out.

To put it simply, your actions against the guy with the gun are one thing. Accidentally hitting a bystander will be judged on its own merits, was it truly an accident that could have been avoided? will the DA, judge and jury decide that it was just a regrettable twist of fate, or was it something that should have been anticipated and prevented?

Someone who goes nuts and pulls out all the stops, believing that the only concern is stopping the bad guy is possibly going to cause some collateral damage. Every bullet that blasts through the window of the diner next door will merit another count of reckless endangerment, every person injured will be another count of some other charge, any death will be reckless or even maybe willful homicide or manslaughter.

Regardless of what the laws in your jurisdiction say about self defense shootings, regardless of any other considerations involved in defending yourself, injury to bystanders is not covered under those laws. The laws do not clear the use of deadly force against bystanders or give a person immunity for any unintended harm.

Now, there is a caveat that I want to say. If you happen to have a car full of gang bangers who catch you in a phone booth and misidentify you, and you cause "collateral damage" to the occupants/sidekicks, I guess that the DA would have a riddle on his hands. Are the people in the car accomplices to the attack or are they bystanders? maybe this is a better way of saying what I tried to say before.

I lay awake at night thinking about things like this. I constantly deconstruct events and consider how they fit into my personal life. It's almost 2 am and a lot of the last four hours has been devoted to thinking about this issue.

Last edited by briandg; July 16, 2018 at 04:45 AM.
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Old July 16, 2018, 02:04 AM   #28
briandg
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This brought another thing to mind of a similar bend. Many years ago a guy was getting his hair cut. The room on the other side of the cinder block wall was being renovated. A guy was using a blank fired concrete setting tool and fired one straight through the cinder block wall and into the back of the guy's head.

he was using the wrong blanks, shouldn't have been using it on cinder block, and knew very well that two people on the other side of the wall were conversing when he pulled the trigger, so to speak.

There were no criminal charges, but the lawsuit that the partially paralyzed guy filed was a slam dunk.

Talking about this thing as only a moral issue is short sighted. We also have discussed it as a legal one. for a moment ignore the right and wrong of it and the legality of it and contemplate what will happen to you if you accidentally do something absolutely horrible, something so terrible that even your grandmother would vote against you and set the judgment at twenty million.

without giving everything you have to doing it right, if something happens that wasn't planned, you may just go to hell. God help you. There are certainly times that taking a bullet is a far, far better thing than could be done.

To throw another thing in. You were given life, there is no guarantee attached. To kill another to save your own life isn't part of that philosophy.

Last edited by briandg; July 16, 2018 at 03:35 AM.
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Old July 16, 2018, 04:08 AM   #29
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Seems like most of we posters are retired? 2AM and 3AM are not sleeping, yes?

In Liverpool speak, legging it! Is most likely the way to go. As using the leave the scene controls on your vehicle. Accelerate, away from this weird situation.

Having 16 rounds of Ranger T 147g hollow points, sitting in my Glock 19 4th gen Glock. The one threat situation I envisage, is possibly not vehicle use at all, but rather being out and about, parking lot maybe?

As my Wife of 25 years is normally hand in hand, hi heels an all. My only worry, is she be kept safe.
If I have to place more than one hit on a couple of ill-informed criminals "Old guys with white beards are easy pickings"

The most concern of mine would be taking cover, and hoping my Cell phone call to 911, could be heard by me! 9mm is noisy.

Not talking to Police is a no-brainer, getting to a Hospital is a good idea, at 82 years of age, and 2 stents fitted in 2011, even though no further problems have surfaced. Parra Medics tend to take your blood pressure first thing after they have ascertained you have no extra holes in you! In the case of an armed encounter.

Which has happened to me already, almost head-on collision? Boxing day 2015. Blood pressure through the roof, off to local Hospital. I was on my own in the Jeep at the time.
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Old July 16, 2018, 04:42 AM   #30
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Yes. retired. a little early.
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