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Old April 22, 2002, 11:06 AM   #1
Denny Hansen
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Loads for Damascus barrel shotguns

Every Memorial Day my son and I go to the range with firearms passed on by my father, grandfather and great grandfather. There are two that I have never shot, both are Damascus doubles. One is a 12 gauge and the other is a 10 gauge. Both are in good shape and there are no apparent cracks or separtions in any of the four barrels.

Does anyone have a source for low-power loads for these shotguns? They are honorably retired, but I would like to fire them once a year at our Memorial Day shoot.

Thanks,
Denny
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Old April 22, 2002, 11:50 AM   #2
jjmorgan64
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I highly recommend not shooting them, If you must take them to a competent smith first to have them checked out, might be hard to find a guy that knows damascus, and only use black powder loading to try and keep the pressure down.
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Old April 22, 2002, 03:06 PM   #3
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My father and I used to shoot his damascus barrel shotgun. It was originally chambered for brass shells (which are a bit shorter than 12ga). We would cut down 12ga paper shells and hand load them with reduced blackpowder loads only.

I don't remember off-hand what we were loading, but you are not going to be able to safely shoot any modern manufactured ammunition that I'm aware of.
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Old April 22, 2002, 03:50 PM   #4
Denny Hansen
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Thanks for the replies. Handling black powder makes me a bit nervous, so I reckon I'll just be content with the stories that have been handed down about them.

Denny
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Old April 22, 2002, 06:40 PM   #5
C.R.Sam
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A laminated barrel can look just fine and still be suffering from corrosion within the structure of the barrel itself.

Some knowledgable smiths say they can tell if a barrel is sound by "ringing" it. The sound of the struck barrel tells the tale of integrity or lack thereoff.

Just admire them, they have served long and well.

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Old May 28, 2002, 09:31 PM   #6
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All the rest of these guys are giving you good advice.

But if you really want to shoot them, black powder and equivelent loads would be available from J. Purdey and Co.; London UK.

BUT DO GET THEM CHECKED BY A SMITH FIRST!!

Cape Outfitters in Girardeau MO could probably direct you to a smith who knows damascus.
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Old May 29, 2002, 06:09 AM   #7
Khornet
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Full-length barrel inserts

are made for this purpose, essentially putting a new bore inside the old one. I think Briley makes 'em. It will reduce your gun by a gauge, e.g. 12 ga. becomes 20, but gets around the problem of weakened damascus steel.
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Old May 31, 2002, 10:05 AM   #8
Alex Johnson
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I have to say I've never actually heard of a damascus barrel blowing up with blackpowder loads. All of the old horror stories about damascus guns being blown up probably were the cause of some idiot shooting a smokeless load through them that they were not intended for, or having an obstruction in the barrel. A good damascus barrel with the blackpowder loads it was originally intended for should be perfectly fine for black powder use. I own several damascus shotguns and I've shot most of them. I only buy damascus when the guns were from quality makers and when the bores and gun are in excellent condition.

Of course whether to shoot your gun is a decision you have to make on your own. But if you should decide to try it, you don't have to mess around with Black Powder. Try one of the Black Powder substitutes such as the new clean burning Hogden tripple 7 or the more traditional substitute, Pyrodex. There are some non-corrosive black powder substitutes out there as well that may work fine. In any event here are some basic loads for black powder:

12 guage 3 drams of 1fg black powder and 1 ounce of shot.
10 guage 4 drams of 1fg black powder and 1 and 1/8 ounce of shot

I try to find paper hulls whenever possible. After they are primed I pour the powder in with a regular powder dipper/measure (you can use a drop tube if you prefer, though it isn't necessary). After the powder I use a thin cardboard wad pressed down firmly followed by two 1/4" felt wads. The shot charge goes in next and than another thin cardboard wad on top of that. Crimp the case either with a star crimp or (as I prefer) with a roll crimper and you have a loaded shotshell.

All the damascus 10 guage guns I've seen were 2 7/8 length, 3 1/2 is a modern length.
Sometimes the 12 guage guns used a 2 1/2 shell, though most American guns used the 2 3/4 were familiar with nowdays. In any event the chamber needs to be measured to determine the appropriate shell length, don't guess at it or you could damage the gun and it wouldn't be the fault of the damascus either.
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Old May 31, 2002, 10:09 AM   #9
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Just wondering... would there be any downside to using a plastic wad shot cup instead of the cardboard fiber wads in your loads, Alex?

I've often considered getting one of those fine old doubles myself.
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Old May 31, 2002, 12:20 PM   #10
Mike Irwin
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I have seen TWO Damascus barreled guns that have failed with blackpowder loads, which were being used specifically because of worries about the pressures generated by smokeless powder loads.

Neither resulted in injury, but both resulted in the death of a nice gun.

As Sam points out, corrosion can occur in the welds between the laminates. There's no way to stop this, and it can be very difficult to detect.
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