The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > NFA Guns and Gear

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old April 2, 2008, 11:19 PM   #1
crazy eyes
Member
 
Join Date: March 16, 2008
Posts: 26
is this legal?

it looks like they are selling these conversion kits online, they look fun, but i value my freedom more, lol.

http://www.geocities.com/shokansunrise/
crazy eyes is offline  
Old April 2, 2008, 11:26 PM   #2
BabyEagle40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 11, 2008
Posts: 167
link doesnt work for me
BabyEagle40 is offline  
Old April 3, 2008, 12:34 AM   #3
JohnKSa
Staff
 
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 22,627
From the link:
Statement:

We often getting questions about legality of that part.

If it´s legal in your Country, you have to ask in your Country !
In the U.S. it is not legal unless you are specially licensed. I don't have any idea about the legality of the part in Germany, where it's made.
__________________
Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
JohnKSa is offline  
Old April 3, 2008, 01:12 AM   #4
jared_2O1O
Junior Member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2008
Posts: 3
I don't think so

It looks foreign.

Even the automatic weapon dealers can only sell automatic weapons (in the US) that were made and registered (as auto weapons) after a certain time (I want to say 1986, but I think it was actually a little later).

As far as glocks are concerned, I don't like modifying anything on the glock. I figure the glocks reliability is probably dependent on the manufacturers specification. I keep the friction affected parts on mine well polished to reduce stacking in the trigger, but i just really don't like changing out the parts.....
jared_2O1O is offline  
Old April 3, 2008, 01:40 AM   #5
JB Books
Junior member
 
Join Date: March 11, 2008
Posts: 125
I don't think it would be legal. I would stay away from anything like that. If you are interested in a Full Auto/NFA weapon, seek out a reputable dealer. Remember, NFA weapons are more of privilige than a "right," and you should walk the straight and narrow in complying with all appropriate ATF regulations.
JB Books is offline  
Old April 3, 2008, 08:17 AM   #6
shaggy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 2004
Posts: 1,519
No, not legal to possess here in the US and if its coming from another country, its illegal to import sans LE love letter, import permits, ITAR, etc.
shaggy is offline  
Old April 3, 2008, 08:14 PM   #7
James K
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 24,383
Just send them the money. If the law doesn't let them send the part to you it isn't their fault, so they get to keep the money. Too bad!

The definition of a machinegun in federal law includes any part or combination of parts designed and intended for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun. In other words, that switch IS a machinegun, in and by itself, regardless of whether it is installed on a pistol. No way is it "legal" to buy, import or own today.

Jim
__________________
Jim K
James K is offline  
Old April 3, 2008, 08:38 PM   #8
ssilicon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 5, 2005
Posts: 459
How far are we going to allow diluted interpreations of the 2nd? How long before "semi-auto" is said to be more of a privillege than a right? What's after that, calibres beyond .22 are really more of a privillege than a right....

Where does that train stop folks?
ssilicon is offline  
Old April 4, 2008, 12:39 AM   #9
crazy eyes
Member
 
Join Date: March 16, 2008
Posts: 26
JB BOOKS, i am not interested in buying or having possesion of it in no way, i like my gun just fine as it is and my freedom too, i just thought it look like an interesting device since it's externally adaptable meaning you can go semi-auto to full auto and vice versa in a flash, nice but no, i will always respect the law.
crazy eyes is offline  
Old April 4, 2008, 03:38 PM   #10
James K
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 24,383
Well, Ssilicon,

Now you got that off your chest, what did it prove? If you violate the law, you take the consequences.

Since both Democratic candidates support a renewed AWB, to include all semi-auto firearms, it might be better to register and vote than to rant to us. (Mr. Obama, it is reported, would also press for a total ban, with confiscation, of all semi-autos, all handguns, and all repeating rifles and shotguns.)

Jim
__________________
Jim K
James K is offline  
Old April 4, 2008, 05:33 PM   #11
ssilicon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 5, 2005
Posts: 459
Quote:
Well, Ssilicon,

Now you got that off your chest, what did it prove? If you violate the law, you take the consequences.

Since both Democratic candidates support a renewed AWB, to include all semi-auto firearms, it might be better to register and vote than to rant to us. (Mr. Obama, it is reported, would also press for a total ban, with confiscation, of all semi-autos, all handguns, and all repeating rifles and shotguns.)

Jim
Well Jim, I think you basically said in so many words that you don't like what I posted. That's too bad. I plan to do it anyway because last I checked, I don't take my orders from you.

Furthermore Jim, despite your deliberate implication to the contrary, I DO vote and AM registered, but thank you so much anyway for your attempt to discredit my character.

My intention with my post, was to make a point. That point being there is a 2nd ammendment to the COTUS and that more and more laws are passed which dilute and erode this right the 2nd provides.

Nowhere did I say that anyone should disobey the law. Also, conspicuously absent was any statement encourgaing blind obedience either. That maybe is a debate worth having among free men, but is outside the scope of my point. I merely wished to bring awareness that complacency with more and more restrictions may lead us down a path that we do not wish to travel.

Have a good day.
ssilicon is offline  
Old April 4, 2008, 06:09 PM   #12
Hkmp5sd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 15, 2001
Location: Winter Haven, Florida
Posts: 4,303
And don't forget, ATF ruled that a shoestring is also a "machinegun".
Hkmp5sd is offline  
Old April 9, 2008, 07:34 PM   #13
ssilicon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 5, 2005
Posts: 459
Quote:
And don't forget, ATF ruled that a shoestring is also a "machinegun".
What are you talking about? A shoestring?
ssilicon is offline  
Old April 9, 2008, 08:36 PM   #14
Dave85
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 3, 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,421
Here's what he's talking about:
The Shoestring Machinegun

I, for one, am sad that it is not legal for purchase here. Not just because I think that full auto should be completely legal (even if it is uselessly applied to a pistol), but because I've always wanted to own something that was "almost handmade."
__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
--commonly misattributed to, and most likely not, Benjamin Franklin
Dave85 is offline  
Old April 10, 2008, 04:46 PM   #15
James K
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 24,383
First, no one said "a shoestring is a machinegun." They said that a string made up to act as a lightning link, and inserted into an AR-15 in a certain way in combination with certain M16 parts, with the deliberate intent of making the weapon fire full auto is a machinegun under the "part or parts" section of the law. It is a stretch, and might be a tough sell to a jury, but the way the law is written, a shoestring made that way and used that way would be a machinegun. The idea is hardly new - a shoestring is a deadly weapon if it is put around someone's neck with intent to strangle that person. It is not the object, but the way it is intended to be used.

As to the other issue, ssilcon, frankly I get damned tired of people raving about the law being wrong, unconstitutional, unenforceable, etc. I agree that freedom is constantly being eroded, but the last time I checked, neither of us is charged with interpreting the Constitution, so what is the point in a rant? The law is what it is. We can try to change it, but meanwhile what are the alternatives to obeying it? Revolution? Prison? Please lay them out, so we can see whether we like them.

I am glad you register and vote. I am also damned tired of people raving against gun laws, then I find that they have never voted in their lives, never joined a pro-gun organization, never contributed to a pro-gun candidate, never did anything but stand around a gun shop, or on the internet, and rave and rant to those who already agree with them.

People on these forums usually have real questions and want real information. Most of us try to provide what help we can. I fail to see what you are contributing by whining about how the law shouldn't be what it is. I can't see that you provided any help, discussed any issue in a realistic way, or did anything but encourage the idea that any law anyone considers "bad" can be ignored.

Jim
__________________
Jim K
James K is offline  
Old April 12, 2008, 04:52 PM   #16
BrunoNorway
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2007
Location: Hedmark, Norway
Posts: 380
shoestring

As far as i can see, that construktion would resett the trigger.
And the defenition of a machinegun say that as long as the trigger is resett it is not a machinegun, but a semi-auto fire.
If the shoestring is a machinegun then bump-fire would make us (humans) machinegun also, right?
__________________

IN HOC SIGNO VINCES
BrunoNorway is offline  
Old April 13, 2008, 11:24 AM   #17
HKuser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 24, 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 625
Quote:
As far as i can see, that construktion would resett the trigger.
And the defenition of a machinegun say that as long as the trigger is resett it is not a machinegun, but a semi-auto fire.
Don't think so. If it fires more than once with one pull, it's an MG, watch the video. Norwegian law may vary.
HKuser is offline  
Old April 13, 2008, 12:55 PM   #18
BrunoNorway
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2007
Location: Hedmark, Norway
Posts: 380
HKuser

where is the video?

you pull the ring thats conected to the shoestring right? then the rifle fires one round, the semi auto-acktion makes the charging handle, thats connected to the string, to go back, that will relase the presure on the string enabling the trigger to reset, then the charging handle will be pushed forward becouse of the spring, this will put presure on the string and setting of the trigger again, repeting the action...

as you can see the trigger are being reset for each shot...

fell free to tranclate this into american... i know there is alot of mispeling in here but i dont know what the right words are...

i realy dont know the laws in Norway either but i dont think you could be arrested for it, i think both the police and the criminals would make fun of you...
__________________

IN HOC SIGNO VINCES
BrunoNorway is offline  
Old April 19, 2008, 08:30 AM   #19
douglasschuckert
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2007
Location: Pensacola, Florida
Posts: 141
Yes.. This kit is legal in the USA. It is ONLY legal for SOT's, Military, and LEO Units to possess. It turns your Glock into a Post 86 Dealer Sample Machine Gun!

Jim Keenan is correct!

If you own an AR-15 and ANY... ANY AT ALL... of the M16 fire control parts, according to the ATF you ARE IN POSSESSION OF AN ILLEGAL MACHINE GUN...

If you have an ar-15 and you use 1 piece out of an M16 in your lower, you stand to get busted for having a machingun even though it doesn't go full auto... IE using an M16 selector instead of a AR-15 selector, or switching hammers.. yadda yadda yadda...


DO NOT TRY AND MAKE YOUR GUN SHOOT MORE THAN ONE ROUND WITH A PULL OF A TRIGGER!!! ITS ILLEGAL... A DEVICE THAT BUMP-FIRES THE WEAPON FOR YOU IS LEGALLY CONSIDERED A MACHINE GUN!!!

Bill Atkins had his bumpfiring stock reclassified and subsequently banned due to that very fact! google "atkins accelerator"
__________________
Write your representative and say no to HR 1022!!! (Yet another $%$(&^-up law)!
http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Fe...d.aspx?id=2668 - HR 1022 Assault Weapons Ban & Law Enforcement Protection Act (2007) http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/409898348 - Online Petition against! DO YOUR PART, WRITE YOUR DAMN REP, and DEMAND VETO!
douglasschuckert is offline  
Old April 19, 2008, 08:46 AM   #20
VUPDblue
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 18, 2005
Location: Central Indiana
Posts: 1,981
Quote:
If you own an AR-15 and ANY... ANY AT ALL... of the M16 fire control parts, according to the ATF you ARE IN POSSESSION OF AN ILLEGAL MACHINE GUN...
Except a M16 carrier...
__________________
Silencers have NEVER been illegal !
VUPDblue is offline  
Old April 19, 2008, 08:58 AM   #21
Nortonics
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 2004
Location: Murderapolis
Posts: 521
Ummm, did Mommy & Daddy forget to teach you not to mess with the idiot on the corner? Gotta' luv the professional web site creation, complete with HS spelling & shady payment options. I'm surprised the site owner didn't provide a unprotected CC payment option right there on the site. Silly furry foreigners...
__________________
Tom.
Nortonics is offline  
Old April 19, 2008, 10:23 AM   #22
douglasschuckert
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2007
Location: Pensacola, Florida
Posts: 141
This is why I specifically said 'lower' :-) But you are correct.... as usual...

You can use a the fullauto bolt/carriers in your Title 1 weapons with out being in violation... BobCat Weapons, the guys that make the kick ass copy of the MP5... they all ship out will full auto bolts and carriers... BobCat tests them on full auto before the ship them out (they remove the sear and FGC beforehand).

VUPDBlue: You should give www.uzitalk.com/forums a shoot. Its a VERY will designed place almost ENTIRELY setup for NFA... Not just Uzi's... Most of the big guys and manufacturers are there too.
__________________
Write your representative and say no to HR 1022!!! (Yet another $%$(&^-up law)!
http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Fe...d.aspx?id=2668 - HR 1022 Assault Weapons Ban & Law Enforcement Protection Act (2007) http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/409898348 - Online Petition against! DO YOUR PART, WRITE YOUR DAMN REP, and DEMAND VETO!
douglasschuckert is offline  
Old April 19, 2008, 11:57 AM   #23
James K
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 24,383
The "shoestring" doesn't operate by pulling any "ring". It is like the "lightning link", and requires an M16 safety and an M16 bolt carrier to operate, but unlike the DIAS does not require an M16 hammer. It is designed to pull the disconnector as the bolt carrier closes, releasing the hammer to fire another round without the operator releasing and pulling the trigger, in other words, full auto fire.

Jim
__________________
Jim K
James K is offline  
Old April 19, 2008, 04:08 PM   #24
BrunoNorway
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2007
Location: Hedmark, Norway
Posts: 380
Jim Keenan

Quote:
The "shoestring" doesn't operate by pulling any "ring". It is like the "lightning link", and requires an M16 safety and an M16 bolt carrier to operate, but unlike the DIAS does not require an M16 hammer. It is designed to pull the disconnector as the bolt carrier closes, releasing the hammer to fire another round without the operator releasing and pulling the trigger, in other words, full auto fire.
I am realy sorry but i still dont get it, i understand that it is more to this pic than we can see and that it takes more than a shoestring to make a m14 fire full auto...

you lost me with "lightning link"

__________________

IN HOC SIGNO VINCES
BrunoNorway is offline  
Old April 19, 2008, 07:30 PM   #25
James K
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 24,383
I may be wrong, but I had understood from what folks have said that the "shoestring" was installed as I mentioned on the AR-15, along with a "paddle".

Edited:

After examining the above picture, I see how the system works, and it does appear to be a reasonably reliable way of gaining rapid fire. I also note the second BATFE letter saying that all shoestrings are not machineguns, for which I thank them.

I think that within the letter and intent of the law, BATFE is probably correct. A string made that way and arranged in that manner would have no other purpose but to convert a semi-auto into a full auto firearm, just like the string substituting for the lightning link. This is especially the case since the shooter does not need to pull the trigger to get a second shot, which is the criteria established in the law.

Like some other "parts", possession would not itself be illegal, but if installed on a rifle that way, it would be.

Here is a link to the "lightning link". It was my earlier understanding that the "string" substituted for the horizontal part of the device; I know other improvised devices have used common items such as paper clips.

http://www.quarterbore.com/nfa/lightninglink.html

Jim
__________________
Jim K
James K is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12840 seconds with 8 queries