The END

[tjhands]

I normally read the threads in this room and smile a little bit and maybe roll my eyes slightly at some of the "paranoid" attitudes and ideas, but since the hurricane and the ensuing chaos hit NOLA, my smile has left and my eye-rolling has stopped, too.

I'm just wondering what would have happened (or what WILL happen someday) if what went on down in NOLA were on a nationwide scale from terrorist attacks or other cause. Would order ever be re-established, or would it be the end of American society?

If it were to happen, what would the most valuable commodoties be? Money would probably be useless after a few days. Suddenly I'm happy that I own a few guns. I've never been a hunter, but that would be an invaluable skill to have. Thoughts like these make me want to go home and load up a few hundred rounds of ammo.

Honestly people, do you think that we are the last generation of people who will live in America as you and I know it? All hypothetical "what-ifs" aside - do you really think that? Thanks.

[Trip20]

No. I think it's a far stretch to picture Mad Max-ish times falling upon America.

My eyes are still rolling, and my smiles still come. A perfectly explainable natural disaster is not going to wipe the smile off of my face. In fact, seeing people come together to help one another, does just the opposite.

There are examples of this phenomenon everywhere, even here on TFL - from XaviersBreath et al and his donation of time/money/nursing skills, to Rich and his team offering subscription money as donation to relief efforts. I bet a number of us here could also attest to things we've done locally with our churches and other organizations to help people in need on the southern coast.

We need to concentrate on and put our energy into things such as this... at least as much energy and concentration as we put into our "Bug Out Bags" and other such dooms day preparation.

America is a large country. Complete obliteration of society, as you put forth in your "what-if", is not something I worry about. Some will agree with me, some will say I'm naive. I just hope I'm right.

[Dwight55]

Food for thought there trip20:

The Egyptian pyramid era empire fell.
The great Babylonian empire fell.
The Assyrian empire fell.
The Greek empire fell.
The Roman empire fell.
The Spanish empire fell.
The French empire fell.
The British empire fell.
The German/Italian/Japanese world dominance plot failed.
The USSR world dominance plot failed.

What is the common thread, . . . to what do virtually all historians agree is the common denominator in each fall or failure?

Internal discord/greed/graft/corruption etc.

This country has thumbed it's collective nose at history, . . . therefore it is as the poet put it: "Doomed to repeat it".

Yassir, . . . it is a slippery slope, . . . but the events of NOLA in the past few days are just a precurser to what will happen one day. In our lifetimes? Who knows. Will it happen? Absolutely!

May God bless,
Dwight

[Trip20]

Dwight55,
I've already munched on that. I’m not quite sure what prompted you to believe I thought civilization was infinite.

Did any of the empires listed end over night? No, I don't think so. But, I'm no historian so I'm sure someone can correct me if my assumption is wrong, at which point, I'll digress. I recollect the civilizations degenerated over a period of time - not with one incident.

If our "empire" falls, I do not believe it'll be in our lifetime. This is why it is something I do not worry about.

Now, localized pandemonium, as in NOLA --- Yeah, that's entirely plausible. But, even in NOLA for example, people had plenty of time to fill up their BOB's and all that other fun stuff.

In my lifetime if something goes horribly wrong, I doubt I'll perish because I didn't have that extra roll of duct tape. And, yes, I'm willing to eat those words of need be.

If Vegas were to through odds on this... they'd be well in my favor. But, there is still that one in a million chance I'm wrong.

[USP45usp]

Trip,

I recollect the civilizations degenerated over a period of time - not with one incident.

That pretty much describes our nation as it stands .

And you have to remember; we aren't all the same age . I'm 37 and if all goes well, I have maybe 33 years left.

Yet we have 18, 21, and younger year old on the board. It could very well happen in their lifetime.

But, I will admit, as being a member of a board that you put out your questions, and then try to find solutions, I've no clue what solution that others or I could partake to turn this inevitable future around. Sorry .

Wayne

[Trip20]

Yeah Wayne, I wish there were a way to circumvent the inevitable...

[elmerfudd]

I work at a bar and I here rumers of the empire falling and curuption sending to our streets but I personly don't belive thay are anything more the just that rumers. yes I am a "young punk" but as soon as we get bush out of office and miss. clinton back in we will be fine and I don't sleep with my gun beliving that someone is going to invade our empire. that is one reason I have made my self a gun owner and avid sportsmen. I sleep with my gun hoping some "young punk" who don't realy care about our empire or my rights to have a tv and not share it with him will one day crawl in my window and not realise that this time this house has a sicurity system and not only will my 357 drob him dead in a heart beat if I miss the intire nabor hood is going to turn thair lights on to see whats going on

all in all we just need to get that oil farming buisness man out of office and get someone in thair that will drop taxes for the lower class and raise taxes for those who have no wories of cash this is the only reason I belive we are even at war in the first place thay don't like us and yes thay attaced us and so we should hunt them down but now we do nothing more then protect bush and his coleags oil profits
don't get me wrong I realize we need oil for our cars and soforth but if we have all those troops over thair then thay are not here to work and build our country and use that so presous oil

[Trip20]

...uhh...

[elmerfudd]

I guess what I am trying to say is that in my neck of the woods I don't see it comeing down to the weather destroing our empire. it's going to be how well we can rebuild it after we get bush out of office

[elmerfudd]

and what dose bush say when a desaster hits "I guess I will have to end my vacation early" my not say somthing like I guess I have to pull some troops home to rebuild

[fisherman66]

Elmer, are you fun'n us? I find your style of writing incredibly amusing and your thoughts very provocative. Intentionally provocative me thinks.

[elmerfudd]

amusing and provocative?

is that not ware this started our empire crumbling to an end do to a problem with the weather I don't see that as a threat. yes a setback and a problem but can we say that this war of oil is better for our economey or our way of life then half a state covered in water. mabye it even opened some eyes for some. look at bush he was one of the first to aid in foren desasters and when our country has a problem he is disapointed cause he has to come home from vacation why the hell was he on vacation in the first place I started working when I was 14 years old and did not have a vacation till I was maby 19 and my next vacation 5 years after that a one week road trip

[fisherman66]

No, that's not what's amusing. It's the spelling that I find a hoot. You're the real deal.

(I've been able to keep my nose pretty clean as far a politics here. I don't care to change that now. That said, a debate must be supported with facts, not personal opinions and testimonials.)

Best of luck and welcome!

[elmerfudd]

I will not debat long I have to sleep a bit tonight but is it not a fact that bill is avidly involved and funded by oil companys. and I do realize the media only reports what thay deam news. but was he not reported disapointedly ending his vacation, and once again what was he doing on vacation in the first place. I personly run a bar I can't take a vacation he is running a country for godsake.

"I just returned from NOLA yesterday. I was tasked out with a team of 39 firefighters and medics, we were self supported, sanctioned, well equipped, well armed and well trained. We had our own boats medic units, command trailer, van for non-critical transport. We are search and rescue trained. In about 60 hours of work time we were utilized less than 5"

"We asked FEMA if we could relieve a group that had been on duty for 72 hours. FEMA though it was a great idea, but was told by NOLA command that relief was already scheduled and on the way. We were told NO. Fourteen hours later, the same crew was still working triage."

these men are on duty for 72 hours and still wated for some one to take over thair post. he he little did thay now thay were over seas playing in the sand for bush and his oil rigs

[USP45usp]

Elmer,

So we know that you're not a gun owner, that you really hate Bush, and think that Mrs. Clinton is the answer.

Okay... all are welcome here.

But please, state your direct positions on why Mrs. Clinton, or any Clinton, would get our Republic back in order.

You will find many that don't agree with Bush 100%, but in the time being, we still have our guns, even the "evil" ones, the hurricane and the Kyoto(sp) treaty isn't even connected, and please, look back on earths history (seems that stuff like this, even greater, happened before man took hold of the earth), and then please, come back with a good debate.

I ensure you, we will not attack, we will debunk. I'm getting to the point that I actually live for this stuff after I get off work.

Unlike the DU, unless you toss aside the rules, you are in no danger of being banned. No one here is banned on the simple whim of a mod at anytime. Just debate by the rules, we are willing to debate with you on the issue.

And please, and I'm not a grammar or spelling nazi, but at least get a few of the words correct, that will help you greatly (and do what I do, If I don't know how to spell a word, I will choose one that is the same, but easier to spell. Word comes in handy also).

Wayne

[fisherman66]

"Wabbit twacks!, Be vewy, vewy quiet! I'm hunting wabbits!"

I smell a troll. Hope I'm wrong. I'll gladly apologize in the event.

<edited for spelling - pure irony!!!>

[elmerfudd]

I do own guns I have a few an I havn't missed a dear season sence I was 15 and actuly I am in bed on my lap top my wife sleeping on one side of my and my revalver not only next to me but in the bed.

I love my guns I would probably use it to shoot almost any one who tried to remove them from me. but the problem is not the guns that we are "debating" it's weather bush is sending this country to the ground or the weather. I do relize this earth has bean created and destroid buy water erotion shifting ice and vocanos. however have you not seen a colonly of ants sevive a rain storm walk over thair ant hill and push it over and thay will rebuild it my only point is that when we need bush he is not or dose not wont to be thair for us

I don't wish to disregard your debate at all nor do I attack you or your opinion I am simply sitting here at 1:30 in the mornning killing time and sharing my thoughts and consers.

[fisherman66]

In that event I apologize.

I think you got some crumbs in your keyboard.

[elmerfudd]

this is pointles why don't you go sit buy the lake and play with your worms and I will injoy my evning

[fisherman66]

I'm sorry. I'll try not to be so assinine.

I don't totally disagree with you. The state of the country is declining IMHO. I think some of it has to do with lack of general discipline among the current working class. I think some of it has to do with leadership.

[aspen1964]

..well...my church has been warning us for many years what the inevitable outcome would be if our country largely turns away from God...the real question is how broad would anarchy be??...how many would help each other..how many would prey off each other..???...does our popular culture encourage our society to be of high caliber or the opposite??...that is humankind's ability to choose..to be the noblest living thing on Earth or the most disgusting thing....I admit that as a teenager a couple of decades ago I thought about this once in a while but didn't see the volume of wretched people that I can see today...I think the truth may be in watching how an area's citizens react to hard catastrophe not to how those not directly affected react..that worries me some....the main thing is to be prepared and not be in the wrong group of people(goats)......and don't forget to target practice a lot..!

[fisherman66]

Yeah, 'cus if you don't believe in God you hafta be an anarchist.

Hooy

[Derius_T]

To ElmerFudd:

I am not usually the type to chime in for this reason alone, but please, for the sake of sanity, would you PLEASE learn to spell? And if it happens to be too difficult for you, there are numerous spell-checkers available.

It makes it quite hard to digest or even make sense of your statements if I have to break out the Rosetta Stone to try to translate them first.....

And BTW, do you know anything about billygoats?

[Trip20]

elmerfudd,
Just stop the posting. Trust me this is sound advice.

Originally Posted by elmerfudd

I sleep with my gun hoping some "young punk" who don't realy care about our empire or my rights to have a tv and not share it with him will one day crawl in my window and not realise that this time this house has a sicurity system and not only will my 357 drob him dead in a heart beat if I miss the intire nabor hood is going to turn thair lights on to see whats going on

Most people hope never to use their weapons against another human. You on the other hand, are willfully hoping to do so.

I hope you get banned before you’re able to make the responsible firearm community look like a bunch of morons.

[beenthere]

The cause of decline in Republics and Empires has been examined in the U.S. for at least the last 80 years. My father said his Civics, Economics and World History teachers in High School ascribed to the theory that "Rome sat on her seven hills and ruled the world - until she became a tax collecting machine, and then she fell". We've had a couple of Presidents who tried to reverse that trend in my generation, and it's amazing how so many revile them for not redistributing the wealth.

That is probably an over simplication, but is also probably a legitimate component in the decline scenario. We do have one advantage in the protections offered in the "Bill of Rights" but those are under constant attack. Free speech - not Free PC speech. The right to bear arms - not the right to bear arms of a type we approve, if and when we approve it. The right to own private property - not the right to own property unless we want someone to own it who will pay more taxes. Each of these is under attack by those whose aim is not Liberty.

The education system is largely ignoring the area of Civic Responsibility. The economics of Personal Responsibility and providing for your own future are ignored. My grandson who is a Junior in High School tells me he just finished a 2 week study of the history of the World and will now start on what is important, starting with the civil disturbances during the Vietnam War. A rewrite of major proportions.

I'm afraid that coupled with the last 20 years of a largely open border policy, we are seeing an acceleration in the decline.