Disturbance at football game

Massan · September 3, 2005, 02:59 PM

Just saw an episode of "Maximum Extreme" where it showed a bunch of parents duking it out at their kids football game. I was wondering if one of them had a CCW would he/she be justified in using lethal force then? Keep in mind that it has become mob rule and people are being punched and kicked at random and beaten even while their on the ground. Also, what would be the the repurcussions in firing a warning shot in the ground?

JATerpack · September 3, 2005, 03:13 PM

My decidedly uneducated opinion would be that unless you sincerely felt a life was threatend your weapon would best serve you by being openly displayed as you and yours retreated to safety. Some states allow you to defend third parties, some don't. Legitimate use of deadly force also varies widely.

Clinot · September 4, 2005, 12:05 AM

Unless you have to counter deadly force with deadly force or prevent deadly force on a third party,taking a gun out when you have the means to retreat is not only foolish but uncalled for.

Hearing a shot could cause the crowd or mob to react in a manner that you or your good lawyer did not anticipate after the crowd trampled people on the ground in panic to flee from a "mad-man firing wildly into the crowd".

Hayley · September 4, 2005, 12:16 AM

A participant in this sort of thing pulling a firearm, let alone discharging it, would be an absolute idiot. Let me rephrase that: a participant in this sort of thing would be an absolute idiot.

Russ538 · September 4, 2005, 12:49 AM

I see that as only making the situation much worse, and getting the man with the gun in serious trouble. I think the only appropriate time to draw would be if someone else started shooting into the crowd.

mete · September 4, 2005, 03:16 AM

If your kid is on the team teach him to avoid the fights with other kids or parents it can be dangerous. When carrying your first thought should be to avoid such situations.You don't want to make things worse. Crowds are always a potential problem.In Iraq recently almost 1000 people died when a rumour causes them to stampede and they were crushed to death !!!

Mannlicher · September 4, 2005, 10:02 AM

there are some folks that just should NOT carry a firearm.

No, you would not be justified in shooting in the ground, or shooting into the crowd, or into some individual during a football spat. As long as you can avoid it, and walk away from it, thats what you should do.

Down here in Miami, a few weeks back, there was a shooting after a ball game. Bad blood between two bad little boys. One dead now, the other locked up. In that type of situation, where shots are fired, its ok to defend yourself, but the best option is to just stay the heck away from dicey places.

Massan · September 4, 2005, 11:48 AM

Hayley

You say a participatant will be an absolute idiot right? Well from the video innocent bystanders just standing there were dragged in by some guy who wanted to start a fight and a lot were trying to get away but instead were knocked down and hit. Their a participatant, unwilling but they still count as one. Would you say their an absolute idiot still or just unlucky.

shooter1 · September 4, 2005, 11:59 AM

If the ballgame is a school function, most, if not all, states prohibit the carry of a weapon. Use your own good judgement about what you decide on that. I'm not sure I would let my kids paticipate in the Pee Wee leagues or other sports activities outside the school. Too many idiot parents. My kids were raised in the country and had more constructive things to do, so I was not forced to make that decision.
str1

JuniorCommando · September 4, 2005, 07:14 PM

Many states prohibit carrying firearms into public gatherings for precisely the reasons stated above.

Hayley · September 4, 2005, 11:28 PM

"bystanders just standing there were dragged in by some guy who wanted to start a fight and a lot were trying to get away but instead were knocked down and hit."

--maybe we just have different concepts of the purposes of conceal carry.

Tylden · September 5, 2005, 10:20 PM

Like mentioned above, carrying at a school function is illegal. Firing a warning shot is not only a big no no, but also illegal. At very least you'd be charged with reckless endangerment I believe (assuming no one got shot). Either way, someone would more than likely tell the police that a man with a gun started firing into the crowd. If you carry, it is YOUR responsibility to KNOW the laws BEFORE something like this happens.

john in jax · September 6, 2005, 07:49 PM

Yep, here in FL no guns allowed at sporting events. But you could probably carry in your claw hammer as long as it was in a tool belt - - oops sorry wrong thread.

CarbineCaleb · September 6, 2005, 08:30 PM

If you already have a bunch of folks swinging, I think that adding a bunch of folks shooting won't improve the outcome.

USP45usp · September 6, 2005, 08:34 PM

I just rechecked the Oregon Deadly Force laws today due to an incident this weekend.

You can only use deadly force if your life is in immediate danger, the life of another is the same, and only with the commission of a felony (no misdemeanors).

So if your state is the same as mine, then no. Not unless someone starts to use a weapon since simple assault is a misdemeanor only, you would most likely be jailed.

Wayne

payne · September 6, 2005, 10:01 PM

Given the situation you're talking about, I wouldn't pull my weapon at all. If it is people fist fighting I'd just call the cops. If its a community sporting event then there sould be cops there.

September 3, 2005, 02:59 PM	#1
Massan Senior Member Join Date: June 27, 2005 Posts: 171	Disturbance at football game Just saw an episode of "Maximum Extreme" where it showed a bunch of parents duking it out at their kids football game. I was wondering if one of them had a CCW would he/she be justified in using lethal force then? Keep in mind that it has become mob rule and people are being punched and kicked at random and beaten even while their on the ground. Also, what would be the the repurcussions in firing a warning shot in the ground?

September 4, 2005, 10:02 AM	#7
Mannlicher Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2001 Location: North Central Florida & Miami Posts: 3,209	there are some folks that just should NOT carry a firearm. No, you would not be justified in shooting in the ground, or shooting into the crowd, or into some individual during a football spat. As long as you can avoid it, and walk away from it, thats what you should do. Down here in Miami, a few weeks back, there was a shooting after a ball game. Bad blood between two bad little boys. One dead now, the other locked up. In that type of situation, where shots are fired, its ok to defend yourself, but the best option is to just stay the heck away from dicey places. __________________ Nemo Me Impune Lacesset "The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.".........Ronald Reagan

September 6, 2005, 08:30 PM	#14
CarbineCaleb Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2004 Posts: 2,745	If you already have a bunch of folks swinging, I think that adding a bunch of folks shooting won't improve the outcome. __________________ “Never express yourself more clearly than you are able to think.” Niels Bohr

September 6, 2005, 10:01 PM	#16
payne Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2005 Location: SE US Posts: 519	Given the situation you're talking about, I wouldn't pull my weapon at all. If it is people fist fighting I'd just call the cops. If its a community sporting event then there sould be cops there. __________________ If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles. - Sun Tzu

September 3, 2005, 03:13 PM	#2
JATerpack Member Join Date: September 2, 2005 Location: Augusta, GA Posts: 30	My decidedly uneducated opinion would be that unless you sincerely felt a life was threatend your weapon would best serve you by being openly displayed as you and yours retreated to safety. Some states allow you to defend third parties, some don't. Legitimate use of deadly force also varies widely.

September 4, 2005, 12:05 AM	#3
Clinot Member Join Date: July 22, 2005 Posts: 25	Unless you have to counter deadly force with deadly force or prevent deadly force on a third party,taking a gun out when you have the means to retreat is not only foolish but uncalled for. Hearing a shot could cause the crowd or mob to react in a manner that you or your good lawyer did not anticipate after the crowd trampled people on the ground in panic to flee from a "mad-man firing wildly into the crowd".

September 4, 2005, 12:16 AM	#4
Hayley Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2004 Posts: 295	A participant in this sort of thing pulling a firearm, let alone discharging it, would be an absolute idiot. Let me rephrase that: a participant in this sort of thing would be an absolute idiot.

September 4, 2005, 12:49 AM	#5
Russ538 Senior Member Join Date: August 18, 2005 Location: PA Posts: 228	I see that as only making the situation much worse, and getting the man with the gun in serious trouble. I think the only appropriate time to draw would be if someone else started shooting into the crowd.

September 4, 2005, 03:16 AM	#6
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	If your kid is on the team teach him to avoid the fights with other kids or parents it can be dangerous. When carrying your first thought should be to avoid such situations.You don't want to make things worse. Crowds are always a potential problem.In Iraq recently almost 1000 people died when a rumour causes them to stampede and they were crushed to death !!!

September 4, 2005, 11:48 AM	#8
Massan Senior Member Join Date: June 27, 2005 Posts: 171	Hayley You say a participatant will be an absolute idiot right? Well from the video innocent bystanders just standing there were dragged in by some guy who wanted to start a fight and a lot were trying to get away but instead were knocked down and hit. Their a participatant, unwilling but they still count as one. Would you say their an absolute idiot still or just unlucky.

September 4, 2005, 11:59 AM	#9
shooter1 Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2005 Posts: 137	If the ballgame is a school function, most, if not all, states prohibit the carry of a weapon. Use your own good judgement about what you decide on that. I'm not sure I would let my kids paticipate in the Pee Wee leagues or other sports activities outside the school. Too many idiot parents. My kids were raised in the country and had more constructive things to do, so I was not forced to make that decision. str1

September 4, 2005, 07:14 PM	#10
JuniorCommando Junior member Join Date: August 30, 2005 Location: North Carolina southern state where Class 3's banned!! Posts: 30	Many states prohibit carrying firearms into public gatherings for precisely the reasons stated above.

September 4, 2005, 11:28 PM	#11
Hayley Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2004 Posts: 295	"bystanders just standing there were dragged in by some guy who wanted to start a fight and a lot were trying to get away but instead were knocked down and hit." --maybe we just have different concepts of the purposes of conceal carry.

September 5, 2005, 10:20 PM	#12
Tylden Member Join Date: July 25, 2005 Posts: 57	Like mentioned above, carrying at a school function is illegal. Firing a warning shot is not only a big no no, but also illegal. At very least you'd be charged with reckless endangerment I believe (assuming no one got shot). Either way, someone would more than likely tell the police that a man with a gun started firing into the crowd. If you carry, it is YOUR responsibility to KNOW the laws BEFORE something like this happens.

September 6, 2005, 07:49 PM	#13
john in jax Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2005 Posts: 1,177	Yep, here in FL no guns allowed at sporting events. But you could probably carry in your claw hammer as long as it was in a tool belt - - oops sorry wrong thread.

September 6, 2005, 08:34 PM	#15
USP45usp Junior member Join Date: May 17, 2000 Location: Eugene, OR Posts: 3,427	I just rechecked the Oregon Deadly Force laws today due to an incident this weekend. You can only use deadly force if your life is in immediate danger, the life of another is the same, and only with the commission of a felony (no misdemeanors). So if your state is the same as mine, then no. Not unless someone starts to use a weapon since simple assault is a misdemeanor only, you would most likely be jailed. Wayne