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Old September 1, 2005, 10:26 AM   #1
John Ringo
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Not-So-Subtle CCW Ponderings

Good Morning,

Around the Northern Virginia (meaning the bedroom communities of Washington DC such as Arlington, Alexandria, and Reston) area there are tons and tons of people in law enforcement, military, and government. You often see and hear strange things from people around here. Just take my word for it. Out on the streets you never know exactly if you are bumping shoulders with a CIA spook, military brass, federal agent, homeland security, or God knows what. I’ve learned this during my process to become a LEO here in DC.

My question is about firearm carry. I rarely carry, but when I do I’m typically somewhat subtle for carrying a full-sized Sauer P220 or my trusty HK USP45F. Open carry is 100% legal here in Virginia. It’s not common, but it is seen every once and a while around the eastern cities like Alexandria. Here it’s a mix of wealthy e-commerce yuppies and gang bangers. Since I have been here I have actually been shot at during a gang banger drive by. I was a bystander on the street when it went down. It all depends upon what street you are walking down. I learned to live with it. But, do I really have to be merticulous when carrying in the Fall & Winter? I am just not a person who is going to walk around with a full-sized handgun jammed in my pant. I’ll carry it on my hip under my leather jacket with my CCW license, Fox OC spray, and cell phone and be done with it. Is this kinda dumb?

So far I have never been cornered my a raging soccer mom who demands to see my license. Has anyone had any experiences here? Any good ways to handle it. Personally I would not stop and show my ID to anyone other than a “badged” LEO who demanded to see it.

This is probably a “flame-bait” thread, but so good might some out of it.
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Old September 1, 2005, 10:41 AM   #2
20cows
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Quote:
So far I have never been cornered my a raging soccer mom who demands to see my license.
Are you legally required to show your license to any citizen that demands to see it?!

I'd just tell her, " Nothing to see here ma'am, please move along."
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Old September 1, 2005, 11:27 AM   #3
alpineman
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Nope, certainly not dumb.

My job takes me to all of KY's large cities (Lexington & Louisville, usually) pretty often. I always carry. Open carry is legal here in KY, too, but I don't do it (for many personal reasons, none of which are opposed to open carry). I only carry a handgun - either my Kimber Ultra Carry in .45 ACP, my new baby - Springfield XD 40, or sometimes (when it's hot) a S&W .38 snubby. I don't have OC spray. I don't carry a back-up gun. I do, however, always have a spare mag or speedloader for the .38, a flashlight (teeny tiny mag lite solitaire AAA) and the ubiquitous Leatherman (too practical to do without). Oh, and the cell phone (AKA electronic leash).

What you carry is up to you. The only "dumb" thing would be to go unarmed, IMO. And don't worry about the soccer moms -- they're probably far too concerned about their cell phones and lates to notice what you're carrying.
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Last edited by alpineman; September 1, 2005 at 11:30 AM. Reason: hit enter before I was finished!!
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Old September 1, 2005, 01:04 PM   #4
RWK
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JR,

I have lived in Fairfax County for decades, am a retired senior military officer, now work for a defense contractor, and know precisely the environment with which you are concerned. I would offer a few opinions, based on living/working here and carrying a concealed weapon for many years:
a) Open carry is authorized in Virginia; however, most citizens -- and many cops -- may not be aware of it. No doubt, you may eventually prevail in any potential legal proceedings; however, my concern with unconcealed carriage has always been the HASSLE that will accrue when Suzie Soccer Mom yells, “that man has a gun” while you are walking through Ballston Mall and the uniformed Arlington cop detains you. For this reason, I recommend use your Virginia CCW license and carry concealed.
b) I would NOT respond to any requests for documentation made by other than well-identified LEOs.
c) I would be meticulous in concealing your weapon(s). The goal here is simple: defensive protection. It is not to make a statement, or to be visible, or to be a showoff, or to flaunt the fact that you are packing a weapon. It is my strongly held -- and personal -- belief that folks who do so substantially hurt the “Second Amendment” cause.
d) If Suzie Soccer Mom were (heaven forbid) to recognize I was concealing a handgun and say something to me, I’d smile, wink at her, and softly say, “That’s okay, I’m one of the good guys” and then slowly walk away.
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Old September 1, 2005, 01:34 PM   #5
Vitamin G
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I personally carry a full size Kimber in the summer months IWB, and a BHP in an alessi bodyguard in the cooler months.

Works for me, even though the summer\light winter\heavy bullet theory is totally backwards. For me, its just a matter of not wanting to buy additional holsters, and i hate wearing alot of layers.
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Old September 1, 2005, 02:02 PM   #6
John Ringo
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RWK,

Good points.

I would find it surprising that local LEOs would not be aware of the legality of open carry. But never say never. I've seen stranger things. So far I haven't been impressed with any of the local law enforcement other than the boys from PG County. Actually I might be an officer over there if things go well:-)

I have never seen one of the local soccer mom's going ape on anybody, but I have certainly heard of a few beligerant ones in other states. They are aggressive, pushy, and want to make a point. I've heard stories of some of these women getting in people's faces and causing scenes almost to the point of physical altercations.

I don't carry to make a point, but I am not always as subtle as I should be. Most people look at me and assume that I am a cop, so I rarely get hassled. But I don't think that I will get by on grace forever. So I will be a little more careful around here.

But yes....I am one of the good guys...:-)
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Old September 2, 2005, 09:23 AM   #7
BloodyBucket03
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I once had a woman demand to see my CCW. I live in the Boonies here in Pa. I like to runs early mornings around 5-6. I usually run with my camel pack, CCW, Glock 30, and 2 mags. Their are a lot of wild animals floating around early morning so you have to be cautious. As I was running one morning a neighbor of mine had their dog loose and it was a very big dog and it started to chase me so I stopped running, reached for my piece and all of a sudden the owner called the dog. I was so upset that I went to confront my neighbor. I told the woman that it is the law not to have the dog lose and she should have it chained up. Her response was that her dog is nice and she leaves it lose all the time and it will not hurt anyone. So I told the lady if her dog chased me again and attempted to bit me I would shoot her dog dead on the street. She was all mad and asked me if I had a CCW and demanded to see it. I laughed at her and walked away. It may sound like I was being a little extreme but when I first moved here when I was a child a lot of my neighbors had their dogs loose and one time my sister was out on her bike and a neighbors Rottweiler charged her knocked her off of her bike and bit her. That is when I said I would not tolerate anyone’s loose dog going after me.
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Old September 2, 2005, 04:59 PM   #8
chris in va
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You're absolutely worried over nothing. Just carry concealed, and forget about it. If it bothers you, get a smaller firearm until your confidence increases.
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Old September 3, 2005, 09:39 PM   #9
rdebert
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RWK: excellent post.

A note about open carry or "obvious" carry and some LEO's. I agree that some LEO's may not be knowledgable about the laws regarding this (to include local, county, state, and federal laws...(also those laws that cover legal concealed carry). But, I have seen more problems with some LEO's that are well informed regarding these laws but disagree with them. Most that fall into this category that I have had discussions with at length...disagree with these laws because they feel that only LEO's should be allowed to carry a firearm...on principle...if you are not an LEO you should not be allowed to carry a firearm outside of your residence except when hunting or target shooting at the range...period. Since they can not actually change the law(s) themselves they (note: I am only referring to a subset of LEO's) take it "to the source" or "attitude adjust" when the opportunity presents itself. If given the opportunity (whether that be by open carry, printing, soccer mom freaking out, traffic stop and informing the LEO that you have a CCW and are in fact carrying, etc.) they will create as much drama as possible in an attempt to make that person not want to exercise that legal right to carry in the future. Often times wrapped in the LEO blank check called "officer safety." I have had a lot of discussions about this with many LEO's and even though they know me, know that I am retired Army, know that I have a high risk job, am a familar sight at the range, etc...those that disagree with these laws have stated that they would do the same thing with me because I simply am not an LEO and therefore should not be allowed to carry...period.

So, I do my best to be as "invisible" as possible. Should this fail somehow make it look like I am SUPPOSE to be carrying (officially).
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Old September 5, 2005, 08:17 PM   #10
kirkcdl
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GOD,I LOVE OREGON!! Not an issue here,open carry "might" raise a couple of eyebrows,but the response from the 911 dispatcher is most likely going to be "That's not against the law here,ma'am/sir".Although I have met a (very) few local LEO that are not quite completely or thoroughly informed about Oregon state law,on numerous subjects...
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Old September 5, 2005, 09:10 PM   #11
FLA2760
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re lady demading to see ccw

Hi
Sorry that you got hassled by a dog and then the dog's owner. You should have demanded to see the dog's license. lol . PS It is funny how all those friendly dogs surprise their owners when they latch on to someone!
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