Point Shooting - Page 2

Slugthrower · July 24, 2007, 10:07 PM

I agree that point shooting is a good skill to have. Using it should only be to place fire on a very near threat. IMO, one should be firing with only one hand and seeking cover as they engage the closest threat, which should be no more than across the room distance 10 to 15 feet, this allows you to be able to move in any direction with relative safety.

Using a two handed style is a bad idea as it may require you to back away from the threat. It is far too easy to trip over something when the using two hands and retreating. Since distance is ones friend and should be sought, just as cover and/or concealment should, it is far easier to point in one direction and have the body faced in the direction of movement while using a pistol with one hand.

Point shooting IMO is only good for the short term, it buys time until you can catch up to the situation. Aimed fire is preferred. Most of the time there isn't going to be enough time though. I would use point shooting until I can transition to aimed fire.

Once and if you manage to come from behind the reaction curve you can transition to aimed fire and even go into a two handed technique. The classic two handed style is very stable and accurate. It is best used for preplanned attacks or a counter attack though. People carrying concealed are not going to be attacking so unless you are soldier or SWAT operator it isn't going to be likely that you start out with two hands. Chances are as a regular citizen, you will be reacting rather than acting.

Since one is at a disadvantage when reacting they need to cut as much time off of their presentation time. Having to raise your pistol into your line of sight might only take a split second, that tiny bit of time could mean life or death. One handed styles tend to be faster and more fluid, even though they are not as stable and accurate. Time is of the essence IMO.

Seems to me that some things can be over thought. The body tends to do what is natural. My father would tell me as a child. "Go with the flow son." That is the general idea with point shooting. A person when confronted with danger will naturally crouch. This natural reaction is to make the body a smaller target, people will also draw in their arms as well, to protect the body.

If you watch a boxer they do the same thing. Boxing is based on the natural reactions of the body and mind. Believe it or not boxing is one of the better forms of self defence, in hand to hand fights, simply because one doesn't have to overcome their natural reactions. Granted there are better martial arts forms. They are much harder to learn as one must do things that don't come as natural. It is the same with firearms as well.

IMO it is a good idea to learn as much as possible and incorporate those things that work best for oneself and exclude those that don't. There is no such thing as one style fits all. We are all different and will find that it is a case of different strokes for different folks.

Half the of the enjoyment in training is finding what works best for ones needs. Get all the information and training that you can. It could one day possibly save your life or a significant other.

WhiteFeather93 · July 24, 2007, 11:31 PM

Gentlemen,

I cannot thank you enough. The information in this thread is great and I have been practicing! The EU/ED sounded harder than it is. Assuming I am doing it right. I messed around with a very poor imitation of a 1911 Airsoft pistol. Very fast draw but I need to practice on my accuracy. I find it is very similar to what I had been doing it just is a tighter grip and no turning of the wrist. I carry on a 3:00 angle on a FBI Cant. To overcome this I had to slide the holster back to a 3:30, 4:00 position.

Thank you for the information on the Serpa. The reason I ask is because I do open carry and I want some type of retention when I do. My Fobus paddle has a retention on that makes it almost impossible to get it out of the holster unless you are pulling straight up from the holster. It is impossible to pull it out from any other angle. My second holster is a leather holster that has no retention and I only use when I conceal. The Serpa seemed the way to go, maybe I'll have to rethink or learn how to fix the deffect if I purchase one.

I will be honest in saying that a class on point shooting would be a dream come true. However funds and time will dictate much on my behalf. I would be willing to sell a rifle but time off work would be the next challange. So please let me know what, when, where and how much and I will see what I can do. I am very interested!

Again I want to thank everyone for the information. With practicing the techniques above and continued training I think I will have a much better chance of surviving a situation than before.
Thank you- Josh

matthew temkin · July 25, 2007, 06:37 AM

Hello David and long time no hear.
Call me crazy, but I kind of miss those old GT days.
Internet life is almost boring these days.
Heck, it has been years sine I have been banned from a forum.
Thanks for the kind words and don't be a stranger.

David Armstrong · July 25, 2007, 04:21 PM

Hi Matt. I took over the fight at GT when you and swac got tossed, and I don't know that the quality of participant has gotten much higher. Good to hear from you.
And Roger, thanks for the nice words, but I don't know that I belong in there with some of those guys (you included). Matt, you, 7677, swac, and so on have a lot more patience than I do when it comes to writing great missives on the internet. But the good thing is that we've all made a difference, I think, and hope we might have saved a few lives in the process.

7677 · July 26, 2007, 07:35 PM

WhiteFeather93,
If you decide to get one, let me know and I'll tell you how to keep it from occurring.

David,
I think you are right about the quality at GT...different faces but the SOS. I agree about the direction things are going and even though we all took a beating at times we all played a part and held the course. We all stuck to our guns even when some of our members were banned because people did not like the message but in the end the message got out.

Like Matt said...don't be a stranger.

July 24, 2007, 10:07 PM	#26
Slugthrower Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2006 Posts: 823	I agree that point shooting is a good skill to have. Using it should only be to place fire on a very near threat. IMO, one should be firing with only one hand and seeking cover as they engage the closest threat, which should be no more than across the room distance 10 to 15 feet, this allows you to be able to move in any direction with relative safety. Using a two handed style is a bad idea as it may require you to back away from the threat. It is far too easy to trip over something when the using two hands and retreating. Since distance is ones friend and should be sought, just as cover and/or concealment should, it is far easier to point in one direction and have the body faced in the direction of movement while using a pistol with one hand. Point shooting IMO is only good for the short term, it buys time until you can catch up to the situation. Aimed fire is preferred. Most of the time there isn't going to be enough time though. I would use point shooting until I can transition to aimed fire. Once and if you manage to come from behind the reaction curve you can transition to aimed fire and even go into a two handed technique. The classic two handed style is very stable and accurate. It is best used for preplanned attacks or a counter attack though. People carrying concealed are not going to be attacking so unless you are soldier or SWAT operator it isn't going to be likely that you start out with two hands. Chances are as a regular citizen, you will be reacting rather than acting. Since one is at a disadvantage when reacting they need to cut as much time off of their presentation time. Having to raise your pistol into your line of sight might only take a split second, that tiny bit of time could mean life or death. One handed styles tend to be faster and more fluid, even though they are not as stable and accurate. Time is of the essence IMO. Seems to me that some things can be over thought. The body tends to do what is natural. My father would tell me as a child. "Go with the flow son." That is the general idea with point shooting. A person when confronted with danger will naturally crouch. This natural reaction is to make the body a smaller target, people will also draw in their arms as well, to protect the body. If you watch a boxer they do the same thing. Boxing is based on the natural reactions of the body and mind. Believe it or not boxing is one of the better forms of self defence, in hand to hand fights, simply because one doesn't have to overcome their natural reactions. Granted there are better martial arts forms. They are much harder to learn as one must do things that don't come as natural. It is the same with firearms as well. IMO it is a good idea to learn as much as possible and incorporate those things that work best for oneself and exclude those that don't. There is no such thing as one style fits all. We are all different and will find that it is a case of different strokes for different folks. Half the of the enjoyment in training is finding what works best for ones needs. Get all the information and training that you can. It could one day possibly save your life or a significant other. __________________ History is a freak show and a dark comedy. Mankind is a spectacle all to itself. Play your role, let the jesters play theirs. In the end...who has the last laugh?

July 24, 2007, 11:31 PM	#27
WhiteFeather93 Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2005 Location: Oley Pa Posts: 281	Gentlemen, I cannot thank you enough. The information in this thread is great and I have been practicing! The EU/ED sounded harder than it is. Assuming I am doing it right. I messed around with a very poor imitation of a 1911 Airsoft pistol. Very fast draw but I need to practice on my accuracy. I find it is very similar to what I had been doing it just is a tighter grip and no turning of the wrist. I carry on a 3:00 angle on a FBI Cant. To overcome this I had to slide the holster back to a 3:30, 4:00 position. Thank you for the information on the Serpa. The reason I ask is because I do open carry and I want some type of retention when I do. My Fobus paddle has a retention on that makes it almost impossible to get it out of the holster unless you are pulling straight up from the holster. It is impossible to pull it out from any other angle. My second holster is a leather holster that has no retention and I only use when I conceal. The Serpa seemed the way to go, maybe I'll have to rethink or learn how to fix the deffect if I purchase one. I will be honest in saying that a class on point shooting would be a dream come true. However funds and time will dictate much on my behalf. I would be willing to sell a rifle but time off work would be the next challange. So please let me know what, when, where and how much and I will see what I can do. I am very interested! Again I want to thank everyone for the information. With practicing the techniques above and continued training I think I will have a much better chance of surviving a situation than before. Thank you- Josh __________________ "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Freud "A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine." -Thomas Jefferson.

July 26, 2007, 07:35 PM	#30
7677 Member Join Date: January 18, 2005 Location: The State of Confusion Posts: 39	WhiteFeather93, If you decide to get one, let me know and I'll tell you how to keep it from occurring. David, I think you are right about the quality at GT...different faces but the SOS. I agree about the direction things are going and even though we all took a beating at times we all played a part and held the course. We all stuck to our guns even when some of our members were banned because people did not like the message but in the end the message got out. Like Matt said...don't be a stranger. __________________ "TOUJOURS PRET" http://kilogulf59.proboards80.com/index.cgi

July 25, 2007, 06:37 AM	#28
matthew temkin Junior member Join Date: June 7, 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 363	Hello David and long time no hear. Call me crazy, but I kind of miss those old GT days. Internet life is almost boring these days. Heck, it has been years sine I have been banned from a forum. Thanks for the kind words and don't be a stranger.

July 25, 2007, 04:21 PM	#29
David Armstrong Junior member Join Date: January 24, 2005 Location: SW Louisiana Posts: 2,289	Hi Matt. I took over the fight at GT when you and swac got tossed, and I don't know that the quality of participant has gotten much higher. Good to hear from you. And Roger, thanks for the nice words, but I don't know that I belong in there with some of those guys (you included). Matt, you, 7677, swac, and so on have a lot more patience than I do when it comes to writing great missives on the internet. But the good thing is that we've all made a difference, I think, and hope we might have saved a few lives in the process.