.357 Magnum OAL

montana09 · May 23, 2018, 07:16 PM

I had a question about OAL with .357 Magnum. I'm loading the brass with 125 gr. Remington SJHP's, my local store had a deal on a bag of 100. Due to the lack of data on this specific bullet I'm using the data for Jacketed Hollow Points from the Lee Reloading manual. My question is the book recommends an OAL of 1.580 inches with Jacketed Hollow points and the powder I'm using, but this leaves the cannelure outside the case mouth. You have to seat the bullet to an OAL of 1.54 to get the crimp to be just about the middle of the cannelure. In this occasion do you seat to the cannelure as the bullet is designed or would the bullet be too deep and cause pressure issues? I'm using 9.3 grains of Unique powder, a max load is 9.6 grains. Thanks!

burrhead · May 23, 2018, 07:41 PM

Seat to the cannelure. 9.6 of Unique is pretty hot and you will find in some manuals that it's over max and in others not max yet. Work up carefully.

mikld · May 23, 2018, 10:24 PM

For well over 30 years have seated all my revolver bullets to the crimp groove or cannalure and disregarded book OAL. As long as the cartridge was shorter than the cylinder, I was good to go...

Nick_C_S · May 24, 2018, 08:45 AM

Quote:

For well over 30 years have seated all my revolver bullets to the crimp groove or cannalure and disregarded book OAL.

Yep. Been doing it ^that^ way 34 years.

Leave the calipers in their box.

USSR · May 24, 2018, 08:58 AM

Yep, just part of what makes reloading revolver rounds so simple; OAL is determined by the location of the bullet crimp groove/cannelure.

Don

**Unclenick** · May 24, 2018, 10:43 AM

It will cause a slight increase in pressure. If you weren't using a fairly fast powder up at maximum load, I would say to ignore it, as the others did, but Quickload suggests that with Unique, you need to reduce the charge by half a grain to 9.1 grains. This keeps the percent fill of the powder underneath the bullet constant and that keeps pressure pretty constant over this narrow range.

One reason that powder charge (Alliant's data) is higher than some other sources is the bullet used is the Speer Gold Dot. The Gold Dot has an electroplated jacket that is softer than a Remington cup-and-core construction bullet is. In a conversation with a Speer technician, he warned me that charges for the Gold Dot line are often higher than will create the same pressure with a conventional jacketed bullet.

I would actually make up 6 rounds with the first being 7.9 grains, then next 8.1, then 8.3, then 8.5 then 8.7, then 8.9, then 9.1. Load them one-at-a-time, then check for pressure signs. If these are for a revolver, fire from the lowest up and check that the case doesn't stick to the chamber and resist ejection. If you find one that does, don't fire anything higher. Just go down two steps from there and call it your maximum load. I would not go over 9.1 grains with the shorter depth and harder bullet if you don't want to put undue wear on your gun. Any rounds you have loaded past the sticky ejection point should be pulled with a bullet puller and reloaded with the smaller charges.

**44 AMP** · May 24, 2018, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Due to the lack of data on this specific bullet I'm using the data for Jacketed Hollow Points from the Lee Reloading manual.

That is your problem, right there!

Quote:

the book recommends an OAL of 1.580 inches with Jacketed Hollow points

FORGET THIS!!!

UNLESS, You are using the SAME BULLET THEY ARE....

And, you've already said, that you're not.

You are making the all too common mistake of assuming that all bullets of the same diameter and weight are the same length. They are not. Some designs are longer (base to tip) than others.

It is entirely possible (and rather common) for two different bullets of the same weight, seated to the same exact depth in the case, to give you different overall loaded lengths. 0.04" difference in overall length can easily be due simply to differences in the "length" of the bullet "tip" between one design and another.

If you aren't using the exact same bullet they used in their data, then detailed data about a bullet you aren't using is null and void for your purposes.

Quote:

I would actually make up 6 rounds with the first being 7.9 grains, then next 8.1, then 8.3, then 8.5 then 8.7, then 8.9, then 9.1. Load them one-at-a-time, then check for pressure signs. If these are for a revolver, fire from the lowest up and check that the case doesn't stick to the chamber and resist ejection. If you find one that does, don't fire anything higher. Just go down two steps from there and call it your maximum load. I would not go over 9.1 grains with the shorter depth and harder bullet if you don't want to put undue wear on your gun. Any rounds you have loaded past the sticky ejection point should be pulled with a bullet puller and reloaded with the smaller charges.

UncleNick's advice here is very sound, but I would suggest a slightly different approach.

I would load in batches of 6 (or 5 if yours is a 5 shot), starting with the lowest load. Fire 5 of them, then look at round #6 (still loaded). Look for pressure signs on the fired cases (including sticky extraction) and look for evidence of bullet creep (jumping the crimp) on round #6.

Then repeat the process with the next higher powder charge. You are looking at two different things here, one is the overall pressure level of the load, and the other is if your crimp is enough for the bullet, load, and gun being used.

You may be in a situation where the bullets all stay in their proper place when you reach the max loading. But, you may be in a place where you get crimp jump before you reach max load. If so, adjusting the amount of crimp might cure that situation.

ALL reloading data are GUIDELINES, not immutable laws of Nature. Even IF we can get and use the exact same components used in the data, we are NOT using the same gun they did, and different results are possible. Similar results are likely, which is why the data is a usable guideline. Vastly different results, while unlikely, are possible.

Start low, work up slowly. Seat to the cannelure/crimp groove, CAREFULLY working up your load with that seating depth. DON'T worry about the published OAL or seating depth of a bullet you aren't using.

Good Luck!

Hammerhead · May 24, 2018, 06:37 PM

9.3 Unique is hot with any 125 jacketed, work up as suggested by Uncle Nick

Nick_C_S · May 24, 2018, 09:14 PM

Quote:

9.3 Unique is hot with any 125 jacketed, work up as suggested by Unclenick

Speer #14 has Unique from 8.6 to 9.6 grains. With the Speer bullet, I worked up safely to the full 9.6. Then, I got ahold of a really spunky lot of Unique and had extremely difficult case extractions at 9.2 grains. With that same lot, I'm all the way down to the minimum 8.6 as the set loading - any more, and extractions become difficult. Here's the link I posted about it:

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=594417

Do your diligence and properly work up the load.

Hammerhead · May 25, 2018, 12:15 AM

I think a lot of that Speer data was worked up with 'old' Unique.

Plus they really like to push Unique fast, more so than other powders, so loader beware.

montana09 · May 25, 2018, 03:35 PM

Thanks guys, I did work up to that loading of 9.3 grains of Unique from 8.6 grains. I had no problems at all with sticky extraction in my 686, and the loads definitely give off less muzzle blast and recoil than the Hornady factory .357 magnum loads with 125 gr. xtp's that I was comparing it too. All good and sound advice once again, thanks!

**Unclenick** · May 25, 2018, 09:23 PM

Glad that worked out. Having only 100 bullets to work with sort of limited how much experimenting you likey wanted to do, or we would think up lots more tests for you to run.

T. O'Heir · May 26, 2018, 12:19 PM

You don't need bullet manufacturer specific data. You need 158 grain jacketed data.
SAAMI minimum OAL for .357 Mag is 1.405". Load 'em where you need to. 1.540" will be fine.
Lee uses the powder maker's data(Alliant's in this case) too. They test nothing themselves. Doesn't mean it's bad or unsafe. Just that it's not theirs.

May 23, 2018, 07:41 PM	#2
burrhead Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 1999 Location: Chihuahuan desert, Texas Posts: 1,148	Seat to the cannelure. 9.6 of Unique is pretty hot and you will find in some manuals that it's over max and in others not max yet. Work up carefully. __________________ Join the GOA, SAF and the TSRA I'm offended by people that are easily offended.

May 23, 2018, 10:24 PM	#3
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	For well over 30 years have seated all my revolver bullets to the crimp groove or cannalure and disregarded book OAL. As long as the cartridge was shorter than the cylinder, I was good to go... __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

May 24, 2018, 08:58 AM	#5
USSR Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2017 Location: Finger Lakes Region of NY Posts: 1,442	Yep, just part of what makes reloading revolver rounds so simple; OAL is determined by the location of the bullet crimp groove/cannelure. Don __________________ NRA Life Member NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor

May 25, 2018, 09:23 PM	#12
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	Glad that worked out. Having only 100 bullets to work with sort of limited how much experimenting you likey wanted to do, or we would think up lots more tests for you to run. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

May 26, 2018, 12:19 PM	#13
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	You don't need bullet manufacturer specific data. You need 158 grain jacketed data. SAAMI minimum OAL for .357 Mag is 1.405". Load 'em where you need to. 1.540" will be fine. Lee uses the powder maker's data(Alliant's in this case) too. They test nothing themselves. Doesn't mean it's bad or unsafe. Just that it's not theirs. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

May 23, 2018, 07:16 PM	#1
montana09 Member Join Date: April 29, 2018 Posts: 55	.357 Magnum OAL I had a question about OAL with .357 Magnum. I'm loading the brass with 125 gr. Remington SJHP's, my local store had a deal on a bag of 100. Due to the lack of data on this specific bullet I'm using the data for Jacketed Hollow Points from the Lee Reloading manual. My question is the book recommends an OAL of 1.580 inches with Jacketed Hollow points and the powder I'm using, but this leaves the cannelure outside the case mouth. You have to seat the bullet to an OAL of 1.54 to get the crimp to be just about the middle of the cannelure. In this occasion do you seat to the cannelure as the bullet is designed or would the bullet be too deep and cause pressure issues? I'm using 9.3 grains of Unique powder, a max load is 9.6 grains. Thanks!

May 24, 2018, 10:43 AM	#6
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	It will cause a slight increase in pressure. If you weren't using a fairly fast powder up at maximum load, I would say to ignore it, as the others did, but Quickload suggests that with Unique, you need to reduce the charge by half a grain to 9.1 grains. This keeps the percent fill of the powder underneath the bullet constant and that keeps pressure pretty constant over this narrow range. One reason that powder charge (Alliant's data) is higher than some other sources is the bullet used is the Speer Gold Dot. The Gold Dot has an electroplated jacket that is softer than a Remington cup-and-core construction bullet is. In a conversation with a Speer technician, he warned me that charges for the Gold Dot line are often higher than will create the same pressure with a conventional jacketed bullet. I would actually make up 6 rounds with the first being 7.9 grains, then next 8.1, then 8.3, then 8.5 then 8.7, then 8.9, then 9.1. Load them one-at-a-time, then check for pressure signs. If these are for a revolver, fire from the lowest up and check that the case doesn't stick to the chamber and resist ejection. If you find one that does, don't fire anything higher. Just go down two steps from there and call it your maximum load. I would not go over 9.1 grains with the shorter depth and harder bullet if you don't want to put undue wear on your gun. Any rounds you have loaded past the sticky ejection point should be pulled with a bullet puller and reloaded with the smaller charges. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

May 24, 2018, 06:37 PM	#8
Hammerhead Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,432	9.3 Unique is hot with any 125 jacketed, work up as suggested by Uncle Nick

May 25, 2018, 12:15 AM	#10
Hammerhead Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,432	I think a lot of that Speer data was worked up with 'old' Unique. Plus they really like to push Unique fast, more so than other powders, so loader beware.

May 25, 2018, 03:35 PM	#11
montana09 Member Join Date: April 29, 2018 Posts: 55	Thanks guys, I did work up to that loading of 9.3 grains of Unique from 8.6 grains. I had no problems at all with sticky extraction in my 686, and the loads definitely give off less muzzle blast and recoil than the Hornady factory .357 magnum loads with 125 gr. xtp's that I was comparing it too. All good and sound advice once again, thanks!