Cutting 9x19 (Luger) to 9x17 (.380 ACP)

[markr6754]

Looking for guidance/approval from the seniors in this forum. I've just started adding .380ACP to my loading bench. The first obstacle to overcome....I have very few 380 cases, whereas I have ~2,000 9MM Luger cases, as well as several hundred rounds of 9mm factory loads.

While the case dimensions always looked a bit smaller to me, I'm led to believe that 380ACP is just shorter. Would it make sense to cut 9x19 down to 9x17, or would I just be ruining good 9x19 luger cases?

I could just buy more factory loads in 380ACP to get the eventually reloadable brass, but that stuff is 40% costlier than 9MM. I suppose it makes more sense, at today's prices, to reload 380ACP than it does to load 9mm...if cost were the main driver. Of course, I just like reloading...and I haven't gotten the hang of loading 380ACP as yet, without buggering up the brass.

Thoughts, advice, ridicule, all is welcome.

[reddog81]

Whatever led you to believe .380 was just a shorter version of 9mm Luger was incorrect. I think every dimension is different. The first problem you will run into is that the shell holder is different and basically everything after that is also different.

I guess the interior diameter of the case mouth would be the same...

[GTOne]

Nope. Close, but no cigar.

[Sevens]

Haha, not EVERY dimension but dang near all of them.

Making .380 from 9mm won't work, at all, no way, unless you did irrational amounts of work. Even then it wouldn't be the same and you'd likely experience higher pressures than intended.

Find some used brass and you'll be good to go.

[74A95]

As noted, they are different. You can have checked out the dimensions and found out yourself.

This manual describes them in detail: http://www.saami.org/specifications_...MI_CFPandR.pdf

[konstan]

I looked up the case dimensions on wikipedia (I know its not the first go-to source but they are generally right on with numbers that are easy to verify).

The differences are in 1/100th of an inch which I think is a lot, for example, case base dia .374 for 380 vs .391 for 9mm...

Also 380 is consdered "straight" while 9x19 is tapered, the neck dia is 0.011" smaller.

Are these differences beyond a die forming operation? I don't know, but I would sure like to know.

[BBarn]

markr6754, I sent you a private message.

[GarrettJ]

I load several different calibers, but I intentionally don't own anything in .380 or 9x18. It's bad enough going through my brass to cull out the occasional short piece that manages to find its way in there. It would be even worse if I was purposely adding those to my stash of brass.

[markr6754]

Appreciate all the thoughtful comments. I pulled out calipers and checked the dimensions. Also tried each case in the different shell holders. Yep...no go. I know I’ve used the 9mm shellholder to decal 380s. That works...but I could pull the cartridge right out of the shellholder. In any event, the 9mm wouldn’t fit in the 380 shellholder.

I guess I confused some general comments on the 9 luger and 9 Kurtz (380), then made the logical leap when I saw a guy shooting 380 rounds through his 9mm. The 380s had better accuracy than the 9s, they just wouldn’t cycle the action, but loaded and fired from standard magazines.

Credit to this board, I have an offer of dirty brass that totally made my day.

[Marco Califo]

If you ask at a local range that gathers brass (I do not know of any that don't), they might just give you a bucket of 380. At worst they might want a Lincoln or Hamilton. The 380's get picked up and mixed with 9mm. They look very similar. I was just sorting some of my 9mm from 40SW, and found a 380. I had the brass standing on end, and noticed it because it was shorter. It went straight into the nearest trashcan.
Ironically, if you want to buy 380 it will cost you more than same quantity of 9mm or 40SW:
https://store-de3bv59a.mybigcommerce.com/checkout.php
#1000 380 $30.95 $16 (shipping) = $46.95
#1000 9mm $17.95 $16 (shipping) = $33.95
#1000 40SW $18.50 $16 (shipping) = $34.50
I have not bought brass from them.

Personally, I use the availability of brass as a criteria for each gun I buy:
308, 5.56/223, 9mm, 40SW. I will not buy a 380. I would buy another 9mm.
The Glock 26 or 27 with Pearce grip extension are concealable in a jean's front pocket (on your own land or if you have a CCW). You may find a smaller 380, but I bet it does not hold 10+1.

[74A95]

Originally Posted by markr6754

I guess I confused some general comments on the 9 luger and 9 Kurtz (380), then made the logical leap when I saw a guy shooting 380 rounds through his 9mm. The 380s had better accuracy than the 9s, they just wouldn’t cycle the action, but loaded and fired from standard magazines.

Credit to this board, I have an offer of dirty brass that totally made my day.

Where did you see the person shoot 380 through a 9mm? If it was on the internet, could you please post a link? Thanks.

[markr6754]

Originally Posted by 74A95

Where did you see the person shoot 380 through a 9mm? If it was on the internet, could you please post a link? Thanks.

https://youtu.be/qNbnS30TV7o

Quite interesting video.

[74A95]

Originally Posted by markr6754

https://youtu.be/qNbnS30TV7o

Quite interesting video.

Thanks for that. By the way, there was no evidence that the 380 was more accurate than the 9mm.

[TJB101]

Last show I was at vendor was selling .380 range brass, unprocessed, for $17 per 500. Bought a few bags to accommodate my new P238 reloading requirements.

[markr6754]

Watch it again. Shooter made the comment himself.

[74A95]

Originally Posted by markr6754

Watch it again. Shooter made the comment himself.

don't care what he said. real accuracy tests are not done with 5 shots handheld regardless of distance. that test was meaningless. If you're going to really test accuracy, it's done off a bench or from a machine rest and requires many, many more shots. If it isn't done correctly, any results are meaningless.

[m&p45acp10+1]

Back in the great .380 shortage of 08 and 09. The make do case for .380 was a .223 Rem. Though some inside reaming may be called for. Both share a common rim size, both use the same shell holder. A family friend that is a well seasoned reloader did make some .380 using .223 brass. He said in the end it was a lot of work, and would not do it again if he had access to proper brass.

[Marco Califo]

380 shortage of 08?
Was that when Hockey went on strike?

[markr6754]

Originally Posted by 74A95

don't care what he said. real accuracy tests are not done with 5 shots handheld regardless of distance. that test was meaningless. If you're going to really test accuracy, it's done off a bench or from a machine rest and requires many, many more shots. If it isn't done correctly, any results are meaningless.

That's fair. I agree with your statement. I guess a better comment would have been....at least the shooter could place the bullets reasonably well. I don't ever want to be in that position, and in the end, it was merely a hypothetical test. Better he suffer any consequences on purpose, than me suffer them through negligence.

In the end, my post has been resolved...I cannot cut down 9 to work in 380....and though I've picked up a few stray .223 shells...I have no intention of attempting such an action.

[T. O'Heir]

The only thing that is similar between the 2 is the bullet diameter.
"...its not the first go-to source..." Best one, Steve's Pages, has gone to requiring a UN & PW without saying how to get one. Supposedly been hacked.

[FITASC]

https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-...80-Auto-Brass/

Box of 500 of some of the best brass made for about $76 with free shipping

[briandg]

you already have an offer for free dirty brass? If it falls through I can set you up with a few hundred fully processed unprimed once fired range.

[jmorris]

You can’t get there from 9mm but I have made 380 shotshells from 223 brass.