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Old January 26, 2020, 08:02 AM   #51
USNRet93
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Originally Posted by FAS1 View Post
Then you haven't watched the video on the website. It's at the 1:25 minute mark. You are correct that you don't have to disassemble the gun.
Just did and they need to change the text and change the ‘simply cycle the action’ part and mention the delrin rod’....
Quote:
This is if the gun has NOT been fired and the action locked up by the safety bullet. Once the safety bullet has been fired, you cannot cycle the action
Get that now....
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Old January 26, 2020, 09:08 AM   #52
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Things that have happened when guns were left unsecured, even around "trained" kids, and even kids who knew how to handle guns and were otherwise responsible and trustworthy...

1. Kid shoots his friend.
2. Kid shoots his foot.
3. Kid shoots a sibling.
4. Kid shoots up a school and everyone says "But we'd never have expected HE would be the one!"
By definition your children are not responsible and trustworthy if any of that happens.

You are absolutely right in that your security posture needs to adapt to your situation. If you live in Westwood Cincinnati you will need a different security plan from someone who lives in the Tetons of Wyoming.
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Old January 26, 2020, 09:14 AM   #53
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Just did and they need to change the text and change the ‘simply cycle the action’ part and mention the delrin rod’....
You can keep your firearms secure and prevent a tragedy by keeping them secured at all times.

That means either on your person ready to be used or locked up in a safe. In my experience anything that looks like a loaded gun but is perfectly safe is NOT the mentality one needs to develop around firearms.
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Old January 26, 2020, 04:22 PM   #54
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By definition your children are not responsible and trustworthy if any of that happens.

You are absolutely right in that your security posture needs to adapt to your situation. If you live in Westwood Cincinnati you will need a different security plan from someone who lives in the Tetons of Wyoming.
Point taken, but plenty of kids show themselves to be trustworthy and responsible, until they aren't.

Know plenty of parents of "good" kids who shocked them by doing any number of stupid things because they caved to someone's pressure, or whatever.

Point is, it is not worth the risk.
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Old January 26, 2020, 10:58 PM   #55
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Point taken, but plenty of kids show themselves to be trustworthy and responsible, until they aren't.

Know plenty of parents of "good" kids who shocked them by doing any number of stupid things because they caved to someone's pressure, or whatever.

Point is, it is not worth the risk.
I would still say then you have not taught them.

Living a culture of safety and developing life long habits is the only that works when it comes to guns and defense.
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Old January 27, 2020, 09:10 AM   #56
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Here's my personal experience with two boys that have completely different personalities. This is also when I decided I wanted a secure way to store a home defense gun and wasn't happy with what was available so I started to design what I was looking for in a quick access handgun safe.

Both my son's knew gun safety and had shot all my guns at the range. Never had an issue with them about guns or really any problems with them growing up. They were good kids and now they are both married and are good husbands and fathers themselves. Neither one really showed much interest in firearms as they were involved in other sports.

When my oldest was around 11 or 12 one of his friends came by while I was reloading in the garage when he said "I know where your gun is". I was a little shocked! I kept a loaded pistol in my toolbox at the time. All other guns were in the safe. It was a small .25 caliber pocket gun. I asked him where and he pointed to the correct drawer. When I asked how he knew that he said my son showed it to him.

Neither of them touched it but what if his friend said "cool" and grabbed for it? Needless to say the gun was removed from that spot and we all discussed what happened. That is when I decided to build the handgun safe that I now sell. It was a real eye opener for me and no matter how good your kids are and how well you communicate with them, please don't leave that unknown element up to chance. We all make some bad decisions in our lives and it only takes a second when a gun is involved. Kids are curious and that's how they learn. I think you have to do everything you can to help your kids to make good decisions.
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Old January 27, 2020, 11:08 AM   #57
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Kids are curious and that's how they learn. I think you have to do everything you can to help your kids to make good decisions.
Excellent philosophy IMHO.

I could not agree more with the idea of "hiding" a pistol. It is such a common mistake that leads to tragedy. You are literally planting a mine or a booby trap for the unsuspecting.

The guns in the house should not be a mystery to your children. Guns should either be secured on your person or in a safe when those children are too small to understand the concepts of gun safety.
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Old January 28, 2020, 08:27 AM   #58
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I could not agree more with the idea of "hiding" a pistol. It is such a common mistake that leads to tragedy. You are literally planting a mine or a booby trap for the unsuspecting.

The guns in the house should not be a mystery to your children. Guns should either be secured on your person or in a safe...when those children are too small to understand the concepts of gun safety.
I agree wholeheartedly with these two well reasoned statements...but would offer a comment on the underlined part.

As a grandfather, my granddaughters are often in the house at unusual times...6:30 in the am...for example...and they often have friends with them...we're talking about kids of 8 years old or younger, and it's my opinion that their young age added to the add'l friends that my show up, makes reliance on training alone unrealistic. The draconian consequences of an unannounced visit with untrained & curious friends leaves me no option....

The guns are locked up in the safe unless I'm wearing or using them. Good post/summation DavidSog! Rod
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Old January 28, 2020, 07:50 PM   #59
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Over and over on various internet forums I see comments from people who think their kids are perfectly trained and would never do anything dangerous with a gun when adults are not around. I say hogwash to that.

Kids lie. Kids misbehave. I misbehaved when I was a kid. You misbehaved when you where a kid. If you deny that you misbehaved, then I am 100% certain that you lie. So why do you think that your kids will be perfect angels? They are not.

Kids cannot be trusted with guns when adults are not around. If you have kids, kept the guns locked up. Keep them locked up!!!. KEEP THEM LOCKED UP!
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Old January 28, 2020, 08:21 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by cjwils View Post
Over and over on various internet forums I see comments from people who think their kids are perfectly trained and would never do anything dangerous with a gun when adults are not around. I say hogwash to that.

Kids lie. Kids misbehave. I misbehaved when I was a kid. You misbehaved when you where a kid. If you deny that you misbehaved, then I am 100% certain that you lie. So why do you think that your kids will be perfect angels? They are not.

Kids cannot be trusted with guns when adults are not around. If you have kids, kept the guns locked up. Keep them locked up!!!. KEEP THEM LOCKED UP!
Amen, and thank you.
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Old January 30, 2020, 09:39 AM   #61
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Kids or no kids, a bedside home defense weapon should be instantly available. Lock it up if you have to during the day, but when things go bump in the night, you are not doing your family any favors if you can’t react.
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Old January 30, 2020, 12:22 PM   #62
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I am not a believer in "supercarry" (carrying inside the home) so when I am at home the gun is in my bedside safe. By the way I recommend V-line or Fort Knox push button safes for those who like me are not comfortable with electronic safes. These push button safes are very quick to access and very reliable!.

However when I sleep, I do not trust that I would have the time to access my bedside safe (which is under my bed) during a home invasion. So while I sleep I keep my gun un-holstered under my mattress, loaded mag but WITHOUT A ROUND IN THE CHAMBER. It is my experience that little hands cannot rack a slide (my 8 y.o cannot rack the slide of my 9mm although he can rack the slide of this 22lr pistol). I do not believe in carrying empty chamber, but I think that for home defense with little ones in the house it is a good balance.

So my safety approach with kids in the house is:

1. Long guns in rifle safe with keys stored in bedside push button safe.
2. Hand guns for home defense (and keys to the rifle safe) in bedside push button quick safe, chamber loaded.
3. While sleeping, handgun under mattress with a full magazine but without a round in the chamber.

How do you fellow gun owners with kids manage your situation? I'd be eager to learn about different approaches and ideas.
Since you have the Simplex lock on your handgun safes, you could place one where it is easier to access at night so you can leave your gun inside it and still have it quickly accessible.

With this lock you can pre-punch all or part of your combination when going to bed so you only have to turn the knob to open it or punch say the last number or two in your code and turn the knob.

When you leave in the morning, just reset the combination by turning the knob counterclockwise.



At least with this method there's no chance you forget and leave your gun under the mattress.

Not sure if you carry your home defense gun, but if you do then you probably won't forget it under the mattress. But then that would create a daily scenario of chambering and unchambering a round and that would increase the chances of an AD/ND. For me all my defensive guns stay chambered and my carry gun is different than my home defense gun.
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Old January 30, 2020, 02:55 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by cjwils View Post
Over and over on various internet forums I see comments from people who think their kids are perfectly trained and would never do anything dangerous with a gun when adults are not around. I say hogwash to that.

Kids lie. Kids misbehave. I misbehaved when I was a kid. You misbehaved when you where a kid. If you deny that you misbehaved, then I am 100% certain that you lie. So why do you think that your kids will be perfect angels? They are not.

Kids cannot be trusted with guns when adults are not around. If you have kids, kept the guns locked up. Keep them locked up!!!. KEEP THEM LOCKED UP!
Also, this assumes all their friends and everyone else who comes in the house are also going to do the correct thing all the time.
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Old January 30, 2020, 03:37 PM   #64
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I'm glad I grew up when I did and not in todays world where you have to be so safety anal. From the time I was born there were always loaded guns in every corner, in every closet, in just about every drawer, in racks all through the house. I had my own revolver at 10, my own 12 gauge shotgun at 11 and my own high powered rifle at 12. Todays world sucks.
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Old January 30, 2020, 10:41 PM   #65
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I'm glad I grew up when I did and not in todays world where you have to be so safety anal. From the time I was born there were always loaded guns in every corner, in every closet, in just about every drawer, in racks all through the house. I had my own revolver at 10, my own 12 gauge shotgun at 11 and my own high powered rifle at 12. Todays world sucks.
Yeah safety consciousness is a real bear.

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Old January 31, 2020, 07:58 AM   #66
USNRet93
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Kids or no kids, a bedside home defense weapon should be instantly available. Lock it up if you have to during the day, but when things go bump in the night, you are not doing your family any favors if you can’t react.
This is getting tedious BUT loaded and ready HG ON the night stand with 8yo and 6yo sometimes wandering around into mom's and dad's room at night? Throw in heavy-ish sleeper..bad idea, IMHO..safe, easy access, next to bed, more better, again, IMHO..
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Old January 31, 2020, 09:23 AM   #67
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cjwils wrote:

Over and over on various internet forums I see comments from people who think their kids are perfectly trained and would never do anything dangerous with a gun when adults are not around. I say hogwash to that.

Kids lie. Kids misbehave. I misbehaved when I was a kid. You misbehaved when you where a kid. If you deny that you misbehaved, then I am 100% certain that you lie. So why do you think that your kids will be perfect angels? They are not.

.....
So you raised your kids just like you!
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Old January 31, 2020, 09:26 AM   #68
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I come down on the side of 0% chance of kids getting a gun 100% of the time, absolutely no exceptions ever.

Secondary is making it easy to grab a gun anytime for any reason.

I also think if an intruder has gained access to the interior of your home, you have already failed the most important test. Spend all effort to make that impossible.
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Old January 31, 2020, 07:01 PM   #69
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Yeah safety consciousness is a real bear.
I just meant kids aren't raised the same way now.
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Old January 31, 2020, 09:21 PM   #70
cjwils
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I am puzzled by the statement by RaySendero. Does he really think kids can always be trusted? It does not matter who raised kids how, their judgement is always suspect. Misbehaving in secret is one way that kids learn to mature by testing limits.
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Old January 31, 2020, 10:59 PM   #71
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I am puzzled by the statement by RaySendero. Does he really think kids can always be trusted? It does not matter who raised kids how, their judgement is always suspect. Misbehaving in secret is one way that kids learn to mature by testing limits.
I can't speak for him or anybody else but I knew from a very early age what would happen if I ever touched a gun without permission. I knew it wouldn't be pretty and I never did.
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Old February 1, 2020, 12:14 AM   #72
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I can't speak for him or anybody else but I knew from a very early age what would happen if I ever touched a gun without permission. I knew it wouldn't be pretty and I never did.
Hawg, sounds like you were (maybe still are) a good little rule follower.

Problem is, for better or worse, you probably aren't in the norm.
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Old February 1, 2020, 02:33 AM   #73
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Hawg, sounds like you were (maybe still are) a good little rule follower.
I'm 63 years old and anything but little. I make my own rules now.
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Old February 1, 2020, 02:43 AM   #74
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All I know is literally every single tragedy in the news is one where the parents knew their kids would never touch or find the gun...
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Old February 1, 2020, 03:30 AM   #75
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All I know is literally every single tragedy in the news is one where the parents knew their kids would never touch or find the gun...
Todays kids. Not the kids of my time.
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