.357Mag and universal clays

Brutus · September 17, 2017, 04:09 PM

Recently got back into the .357. For years I've used 8gr. of Unique or 7.5gr. of universal clays as a target load for .44mag. and .45 Colt with lead .240gr. and .250gr. SWC's. Looking for something similar for 158gr. SWC's in .357.
Tried 5.3gr of universal which shot OK but nothing stellar in the accuracy department. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Vulcannut · September 17, 2017, 05:21 PM

First I must say I am new to reloading. This being said I enjoyed what I shot through my 6inch Ruger Security Six and my little Charter Arms Mag Pug this last Friday which was 6.2 grains of HP38, CCI 550 magnum primer, Xtreme bullets 158 Plated SWC. They felt lighter than my 158 grain Freedom Munitions RN I had to compare them too. Not much lighter but a little.

NoSecondBest · September 18, 2017, 08:30 AM

For several years I had access to unlimited amounts of Clays powders and I was shooting many thousands of rounds a year out of both handgun and shotgun. A couple of the handguns were custom built Coonan .357mags (original Coonans, not the current generation) and a couple of Bill Davis custom built revolvers. I NEVER got great groups with any Clays powder in handguns. It was good in shotguns, just not so good in handguns. Depends on what your expectations are for it. It was disappointing to me back then.

BBarn · September 18, 2017, 08:36 AM

Don't recall trying Universal in the .357. I've been happy with W231 and HS-6 for medium power plated/jacketed 158 gr. 357 loads. Haven't done much with cast in the 357.

bedlamite · September 18, 2017, 11:19 AM

In 357 mag I use 6.0gr of Universal under a plated 158gr. I've shot thousands of them over the years.

NoSecondBest · September 18, 2017, 11:34 AM

For target wad cutters or semi wad cutters just get some 231. It's a great powder for those bullets. My Bill Davis guns would shoot one ragged hole at 25yds with that powder and a SWC bullet.

mikld · September 18, 2017, 11:40 AM

When trying to simplify my powder inventory I decided to go with Universal for my handgun ammo. I got a 4 lb jug and found a couple 1 pound bottles locally and have been trying it in all my handgun loads. I have used a lot in 9mm (my "stash" load is 4.6 gr. Universal under a 125 gr. JHP), a lot in .44 Mag., but no .357 Magnum. I have some Universal loads in 38 Special but because of the fires around here and a stubborn ladder (it won and I'm on crutches) I haven't been able to shoot 'em. My Hodgdon manual says 4.0-6.2 gr of Universal for a 158 gr LSWC in 357, so you have room to go up. From my limited experience I've found Universal, like Unique likes the upper end of the "window" for good ignition/consistency...

T. O'Heir · September 18, 2017, 11:56 AM

Universal and Clays are two different powders. The Universal is something called Clays Technology.
5.3 grains of Universal is .5 below minimum for a jacketed 158. Hodgdon says to use 5.8 to 6.3 for a jacketed 158. They only show cast 158 grain loads for Clays.
7.5 grains of Universal is .5 below minimum for a .44 too. Not enough to matter in either case though.

Jim Watson · September 18, 2017, 12:07 PM

When new, it was indeed labeled "Universal Clays."
The Internet Generation found this confusing, so now they just call it "Universal."
If that was so confusing, I don't know how they manage to keep all those colored dots straight, not to mention the four digit IMR codes. Unequal is going to drive them nuts.

Any road, Universal is in the same performance range as Unique, but not a grain for grain substitute. Only place I have that shows both is a Speer manual that shows a bit less Universal than Unique for the same velocity.

Brutus · September 19, 2017, 09:15 PM

My goto powder for .44 and ,45colt was always Unique but when the Obama shortages hit and I couldn't find any I dipped into my stash of Universal clays
that I had for 12 gauge shot shells. Found that it provided similar performance, metered better, was cleaner burning and required less powder. Think my 5.3gr. load might be a bit light.

Road_Clam · September 20, 2017, 08:07 AM

For full bang max loads I like H110. When I want softer loads for my wife or daughter I then go to 2400.

September 17, 2017, 04:09 PM	#1
Brutus Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2005 Posts: 1,023	.357Mag and universal clays Recently got back into the .357. For years I've used 8gr. of Unique or 7.5gr. of universal clays as a target load for .44mag. and .45 Colt with lead .240gr. and .250gr. SWC's. Looking for something similar for 158gr. SWC's in .357. Tried 5.3gr of universal which shot OK but nothing stellar in the accuracy department. Any suggestions would be appreciated. __________________ Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak out, Courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen, Winston Churchill.

September 18, 2017, 11:19 AM	#5
bedlamite Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2000 Location: WI Posts: 1,395	In 357 mag I use 6.0gr of Universal under a plated 158gr. I've shot thousands of them over the years. __________________ A plan is just a list of things that doesn't happen.

September 18, 2017, 11:40 AM	#7
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	When trying to simplify my powder inventory I decided to go with Universal for my handgun ammo. I got a 4 lb jug and found a couple 1 pound bottles locally and have been trying it in all my handgun loads. I have used a lot in 9mm (my "stash" load is 4.6 gr. Universal under a 125 gr. JHP), a lot in .44 Mag., but no .357 Magnum. I have some Universal loads in 38 Special but because of the fires around here and a stubborn ladder (it won and I'm on crutches) I haven't been able to shoot 'em. My Hodgdon manual says 4.0-6.2 gr of Universal for a 158 gr LSWC in 357, so you have room to go up. From my limited experience I've found Universal, like Unique likes the upper end of the "window" for good ignition/consistency... __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

September 18, 2017, 11:56 AM	#8
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Universal and Clays are two different powders. The Universal is something called Clays Technology. 5.3 grains of Universal is .5 below minimum for a jacketed 158. Hodgdon says to use 5.8 to 6.3 for a jacketed 158. They only show cast 158 grain loads for Clays. 7.5 grains of Universal is .5 below minimum for a .44 too. Not enough to matter in either case though. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

September 19, 2017, 09:15 PM	#10
Brutus Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2005 Posts: 1,023	My goto powder for .44 and ,45colt was always Unique but when the Obama shortages hit and I couldn't find any I dipped into my stash of Universal clays that I had for 12 gauge shot shells. Found that it provided similar performance, metered better, was cleaner burning and required less powder. Think my 5.3gr. load might be a bit light. __________________ Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak out, Courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen, Winston Churchill.

September 17, 2017, 05:21 PM	#2
Vulcannut Member Join Date: March 31, 2017 Location: Some H$ll whole in Connecticut Posts: 58	First I must say I am new to reloading. This being said I enjoyed what I shot through my 6inch Ruger Security Six and my little Charter Arms Mag Pug this last Friday which was 6.2 grains of HP38, CCI 550 magnum primer, Xtreme bullets 158 Plated SWC. They felt lighter than my 158 grain Freedom Munitions RN I had to compare them too. Not much lighter but a little.

September 18, 2017, 08:30 AM	#3
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	For several years I had access to unlimited amounts of Clays powders and I was shooting many thousands of rounds a year out of both handgun and shotgun. A couple of the handguns were custom built Coonan .357mags (original Coonans, not the current generation) and a couple of Bill Davis custom built revolvers. I NEVER got great groups with any Clays powder in handguns. It was good in shotguns, just not so good in handguns. Depends on what your expectations are for it. It was disappointing to me back then.

September 18, 2017, 08:36 AM	#4
BBarn Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2015 Posts: 887	Don't recall trying Universal in the .357. I've been happy with W231 and HS-6 for medium power plated/jacketed 158 gr. 357 loads. Haven't done much with cast in the 357.

September 18, 2017, 11:34 AM	#6
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	For target wad cutters or semi wad cutters just get some 231. It's a great powder for those bullets. My Bill Davis guns would shoot one ragged hole at 25yds with that powder and a SWC bullet.

September 18, 2017, 12:07 PM	#9
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	When new, it was indeed labeled "Universal Clays." The Internet Generation found this confusing, so now they just call it "Universal." If that was so confusing, I don't know how they manage to keep all those colored dots straight, not to mention the four digit IMR codes. Unequal is going to drive them nuts. Any road, Universal is in the same performance range as Unique, but not a grain for grain substitute. Only place I have that shows both is a Speer manual that shows a bit less Universal than Unique for the same velocity.

September 20, 2017, 08:07 AM	#11
Road_Clam Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2013 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 1,695	For full bang max loads I like H110. When I want softer loads for my wife or daughter I then go to 2400. __________________ "To be old an wise you must have been young and stupid"