Binary Trigger . . . really?

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy

Where are you getting information to the contrary?

They are so popular, people haven't even heard about them, right?

I suspect this is one of those situations where they are very popular among the people with whom they are very popular.

[tex45acp]

I was never convinced of the need of the binary trigger system, until one of my customers asked me to install one on his 10/22 he used for informal steel plate and silhouette shooting. I saw him reduce the time it took him to "run the rack" on the plates and not have to pull, but only release the trigger to shoot the silhouette's. I have no need for one in any gun or caliber but i think the design is interesting.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by tex45acp

I saw him reduce the time it took him to "run the rack" on the plates and not have to pull, but only release the trigger to shoot the silhouette's.

Would someone please enlighten me about something? I seem to remember reading that the BATFE has something called a "forced reset" trigger in their legal crosshairs. If you have a binary trigger, do they all reset automatically, or is it a forced reset if it resets automatically?

[Rob228]

Looks like a forced reset trigger uses a different shaped hammer that forces the trigger forward against your finger when it is re-cocked:



The video has about two minutes of guys running around shooting really fast before it goes into the mechanical discussion of how it works.

[zukiphile]

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

If you have a binary trigger, do they all reset automatically, or is it a forced reset if it resets automatically?

The way I understand the binaries, nothing is forced. You can press the trigger and keep it back, firing only one round, and it behaves just like an ordinary, semi-automatic trigger that you haven't released. The difference is that when ever you let the trigger come forward, one second, one minute or one hour later, the hammer drops on the round in the chamber and it shoots.

[44 AMP]

My understanding is you get one pair of shots, from a single trigger pull and release and to shoot again, you have to pull the trigger again, and get the second shot on its release.

This is not the same as bump firing where it is the rifle movement assisting a second, rapid trigger pull.

I wouldn't want to see a binary trigger on anything that has more recoil than a .223 though.

I saw him reduce the time it took him to "run the rack" on the plates and not have to pull, but only release the trigger to shoot the silhouette's.

I'm curious about the accuracy of this statement. Not about the reduction of his time, but how can you release a trigger more than once without pulling it, more than once??

[Doc Intrepid]

I suspect he meant, when shooting a plate rack, pulling the trigger to fire at plate #1; transitioning to the next plate #2 then releasing the trigger; transitioning to #3 and pulling; transitioning to #4 then releasing; etc.

I can see how that might speed up your ability to clear the rack, presuming you work at it.

[Skans]

Where are you getting information to the contrary?

They are so popular, people haven't even heard about them, right?

Just look on Gunbroker and search for "Echo" or "Binary" - they are quite popular.

[stinkeypete]

Regarding shotguns that do not have disconnectors- the Ithaca Model 37 can be ‘slam fired’ since 1937 and still can be.

My 1946 action is so smooth that my hand pressure is enough to automatically pop the action. That, or I have done it enough years that it’s automatic for me.

If one doesn’t care about actually hitting anything, one can depress the trigger and cycling the action briskly would result in a shot on each end stroke. It’s the sort of nonsense they do in movies.

One can scratch their head and say “yeah but” all you want but I bet the ATF goes after Shockwaves a heck of a lot sooner than proper shotguns like the Model 37.

[JohnKSa]

I suspect this is one of those situations where they are very popular among the people with whom they are very popular.

Yup.

Just look on Gunbroker and search for "Echo" or "Binary" - they are quite popular.

First of all, Gunbroker is not exactly mainstream among gun owners. The people buying on Gunbroker likely aren't typical gun owners/buyers. The typical gun owner likely doesn't even know you can buy a gun online.

With that in mind, let's do your experiment.

Searching on binary AR trigger returns 168 hits.

Searching on AR trigger returns 10,000 hits, the maximum number of hits that Gunbroker will return on a search.

That suggests that binary AR triggers make up less than 1.7% of the total number of AR triggers for sale in Gunbroker. Maybe a lot less than 1.7% since we don't know how many more hits over 10,000 there were for AR triggers.

Let's try some of the same type of "research" but at some more mainstream sites.

Midway USA returns 0 results for binary but 1177 results for trigger.

Natchez Shooters Supply returns 9 hits for binary trigger but 1365 results for trigger.

Brownell's returns 8 hits for binary trigger but 1424 hits for trigger.

That comes out to less than half a percent of the hits for trigger relating to binary triggers.

[Road_Clam]

My FA binary functions as a normal trigger where the sear will lock the hammer if the trigger is pulled and held. Once you allow the trigger to return it trips the sear allowing the hammer to fall, while also allowing the condition of the hammer being "unblocked".

[berettaprofessor]

I wouldn't want to see a binary trigger on anything that has more recoil than a .223 though.

Since mine is on an AR lower, I tried it with 22LR, 223, and a 9mm upper. Right from the beginning, I could fire almost continuously with a 22lr, but had trouble maintaining a 223 or 9 fire rate. 2nd shot would bump my finger off the trigger, so I kept "double-taps" up, but no more. I concluded it would take some practice and haven't really tried again.

[44 AMP]

AR's seem to be the primary platform for the binary triggers, though mention has been made of their use in Ruger 10/22s

AR lower with a binary trigger would be versatile, think of the fun you could have with a binary trigger lower teamed with a .50 Beowulf upper!!

Thanks, no...not for me...

[Ricklin]

Thanks 44 AMP for your above analysis of the popularity of the binary triggers.

They do seem to be a thing among the tacticool crowd, that's reason enough for me to avoid them.

[Paul B.]

"Regarding shotguns that do not have disconnectors- the Ithaca Model 37 can be ‘slam fired’ since 1937 and still can be."

IIRC, Ithaca made changes to the model 37 sometime in the late 1970s early 1980 so that they could no longer be "slam fired". After that, the only slam fire guns made were to law enforcement and military only. The only thing I'm not sure of is the time frame.

I did a google search and got the following of The High Road The time frame matches what I thought. See below.
Paul B.

I have an ol Ithaca Model-37 made in 1947. My cousin/shooting buddy/BFF has a newer Model-37 made,IIRC, in the late '80's. Mine has the slam fire feature, his doesn't. Does anybody know what year this was discontinued? Just curious. Thanks.

My -37 is smoother than his and is very tight. It doesn't have any blue left on it but it works perfect.
Ky Larry, Aug 1, 2015 #1

ABTOMAT
ABTOMAT
Member
Joined:Feb 23, 2006
Messages:927
Location:USA
I want to say '76 or '78.

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy

Where are you getting information to the contrary?

They are so popular, people haven't even heard about them, right?

Binary triggers are quite popular.

[berettaprofessor]

AR's seem to be the primary platform for the binary triggers, though mention has been made of their use in Ruger 10/22s

That's because Frankfort Arsenal makes binaries for the AR15, Ruger 9 PC and 10/22 binary triggers. And who owns a PC9 anyhoo?

[Double Naught Spy]

Binary triggers are quite popular.

I figure they are like shoulder holsters, but as noted in previous posts, not really.

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy

I figure they are like shoulder holsters, but as noted in previous posts, not really.

Over half the AR owners I know own a binary trigger. I know the ones who don't own any guns "because they all got stole" own a few binaries each.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by reynolds357

Over half the AR owners I know own a binary trigger. I know the ones who don't own any guns "because they all got stole" own a few binaries each.

With all due respect, that's an anecdotal and meaningless statistic.

I can counter by saying that none of the AR owners I know own a binary trigger. So we're even. But neither of us has mentioned a number, so it's totally meaningless.

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

With all due respect, that's an anecdotal and meaningless statistic.

I can counter by saying that none of the AR owners I know own a binary trigger. So we're even. But neither of us has mentioned a number, so it's totally meaningless.

You missed my point. Most binary trigger owners don't talk about them. They paid cash for them. No one knows they have them. They want to keep it that way.

I know over 30 AR owners who admit to having them.

[Double Naught Spy]

Wait, are you saying these are really popular but folks don't talk about them? There is quite the contradiction there. That sounds a whole lot more like the shoulder holster example where a bunch of people bought them thinking they would be really cool and that didn't turn out to be case and not they sit quietly in drawers and nobody talks about them.

I did some checking and I know at least 16 guys who own shoulder holsters...and only the two cops ever wear them.

[JohnKSa]

I know over 30 AR owners who admit to having them.

A very interesting statement. I believe you, so don't take the following questions as skepticism--that's not what I'm getting at. I think that the answers will provide more useful information.

How many total people do you know who own ARs?

How do you know them?

How do you know that they have binary triggers since it's apparently unusual for binary trigger owners to admit to owning them?

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by JohnKSa

A very interesting statement. I believe you, so don't take the following questions as skepticism--that's not what I'm getting at. I think that the answers will provide more useful information.

How many total people do you know who own ARs?

How do you know them?

How do you know that they have binary triggers since it's apparently unusual for binary trigger owners to admit to owning them?

Probably 80 who own them.
Shot with a lot of them when in L.E. know many from the gun club. Church, neighbors.

A few enjoy shooting the binary triggers. I don't think it's unusual for Binary triggers to admit owning them. Most don't talk about them and don't want people they don't know well enough to trust to know they have them.

[Double Naught Spy]

LOL, here is a great video of a guy assessing accuracy with a binary trigger. Shot #2 is a negligent discharge, a not so uncommon issue with binary triggers, particularly early on in ownership, but happens later as well to folks.

This is John of Whisper Tactical, FFL, validating accuracy at a whopping 10 yards.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcDm6kEFBXc