.270 Win - Load Testing for Moose/Deer Hunting

[Picher]

Target shown is my "control" ammo, consisting of 130 grain Nosler BTs from two different Rem 700s, shot recently to compare grouping of my Win .270 rifles at 200 yards. The reason for testing is to find the best .270 Win load for Maine Antlered moose this September, and perhaps for deer. Both rifles shot well with this ammo...under 1/2 MOA! I'm very pleased with both rifles, which I have accurized.

The other ammo I shot at 100 yards with both rifles was a load using Hornady 130 GMX bullets, which didn't group better than 3 MOA at 100 yards.

Another load used some older Nosler 130 grain Partitions over Reloder 22, which proved too hot...flattening and cratering primers, and left ejector hole marks on rims. Pulling those bullets proved very difficult, so I'm rejecting them for the hunt.

At this point I know the rifles that will be used are shooting well. Next is to try two other bullets using: Hornady 140 grain Interlock Spitzer BTs and when they arrive, 130 grain Nosler - Bonded Ballistic Tips. I'll keep you posted.

(Second picture is of the older 700 Stainless with the stock now on the CDL Stainless Fluted and the Sendero stock, which is back on the older rifle.)

[Wyosmith]

Moose are quite large. Don't end up '"barking up the wrong tree" by trying to get super accuracy to kill an animal at under 150 yards that has a kill zone as big as a large wash tub. Moose are not the size of ground squirrels. You will appreciate penetration more than competition grade accuracy after you fire the shot.

A 270 with any 130 grain bullet through any moose's heart will kill it. The heart of a 1600-1700 pound moose is only 6" under the skin from a perfect angle.

But you cannot depend of the perfect angle.

If I were going moose hunting with my 270 I would use Nosler Partitions in 150 or 160 grain, or a Barnes in a 150 grain.

I have killed 4 in my life. I have guided other hunters and gone with friends on 7 more moose hunts. So I don't have the level of experience that some of my Canadian and Alaskan friends have, but I do have some. In most cases moose are known not from their reaction to hits, but for their lack of it. If you hit them perfectly they fall like a deer, but most times they seem to be uninterested in you or your rifle. 2 of mine I killed with a 375H&H and both acted like I had missed.
I have seen 2 killed with 270s. One was heart shot and went about 2 body lengths and fell. The other didn't even move but just looked up as if to see what had just happened, stood for about 7-10 seconds and then fell.

I think you will appreciate a wound that has an exit. An exit wound bleeds out faster and if the moose were to run, an exit makes it quite easy to find.

[jmr40]

Never killed a moose, never will. But based on reputation and what others have successfully used I'd go heavier than 130 gr in a 270. With the copper bullets being an exception and possibly the 130 Partition.

Ballistic Tips are designed for deer size game. The Interlock's are a good basic old school bullet, but I think there are better options. Like said above, under ideal conditions all work. But I'd feel better with a stoutly constructed 150 gr bullet in a 270 for game that size.

[shootbrownelk]

I'd use either Barnes TTSX or Nosler Accubonds and forget the Ballistic tips.

[Art Eatman]

Back when scopes were still rather primitive by modern standards and iron sights were far more common, accepted wisdom had it that anything inside of two MOA was plenty good for whitetail deer.

IOW, for something as large as a moose, penetration is more important than ultra-tight groups. Odds are that a 150-grain bullet would be preferred.

[Ricklin]

Consider the velocity potential of the .270. Now consider the size of your quarry.

.270 is my favorite rifle caliber. Please choose bullet that will penetrate and hang together.

[FrankenMauser]

The pdf won't open for me. It keeps getting corrupted. ...Probably not the file, but the strain on the internet here with all of the Eclipse tourists overloading the network.

Anyway...
Every .270 in my family shoots Nosler bullets like a dream. Be it a Ballistic Tip of some kind, or a Partition, they shoot bug holes.
Some other things have done well. But I never had much luck with the Hornady offerings (especially the GMX) when I tested.

My personal "one load to rule them all" is a 140 gr Partition at 3.255" COAL, on top of 55.0 gr RL-19, in R-P brass. (Probably a Winchester primer. I can't remember.)
I spent three years testing powders at the temperature extremes I hunt in (from summer Antelope to fall Elk), and the RL-19 came out on top with a final average five-round group size of a bit over 0.6 MoA. With a good rest and a shooter that's calm, it's regularly sub-0.330" at 100 yd.
Some powders did notably better within a small temperature range (such as 50-65 F), but the RL-19 smoked the rest, overall, from sub-freezing to 100+ F.

[T. O'Heir]

Any 130 or 140 grain bullet out of a .270 will kill Bullwinkle with no fuss. If it kills him it'll kill Bambi and Yogi too. You really don't need to try all of 'em. Pick one, work up a load that's the most consistent and get practicing with it on a 9" pie plate, off-hand, at 100 yards.
"...Moose are quite large..." Yep and it's easy to get fixated on that. The kill zone isn't as big as you'd think. Bullwinkle's vitals are about 18" in diameter on a side view. Bigger than Bambi's, of course, but the 9" pie plate still applies.
"...3 MOA at 100 yards..." That's actually good enough for hunting. Assuming it's consistent.
A GMX is a solid copper bullet just like a Barnes. Sounds like your rifle doesn't really like 'em. Might be the powder too though.

[cptjack]

I shoot jack O Connors load with Sierra 130 game king. 3/8 -1/2 "AT 100 HINT 4831 SC

[Picher]

Thanks for the responses!

The reason for shooting the 130 Ballistic Tips was as a "Control Test". There's NO WAY I'd use them for moose. I want a tougher bullet and may go back to the Partitions, with a lighter load, but still have time for testing, since our hunt isn't until the last week in September.

When the Bonded Ballistic Tips come, and if they shoot well, I'll put them through a toughness test, using known tough bullets, including a safe load of Partitions and perhaps, Barnes 140-150 grainers.

I've stayed away from Barnes bullets in my older .270 because they fouled badly, but if they don't foul in the new rifle, I may use them.

A big problem about hunting moose in Maine's North Woods is that we know of many hunters who have shot moose and they've run over a hundred yards into some pretty miserable slash...or wet areas. I want the best ammo out of my .270 that will anchor one within 30 yards of the first round hit...if possible. Time (and testing) should tell.

Of course, there's not much worse than shooting a huge moose and have about 800 lbs of terrible meat. I'd prefer a good-eating bull to the biggest one out there.

[Picher]

T-O'hair: I'm not too worried about hitting what I aim at, and can hit a 9" pie plate 200 yards about every shot. I've also killed several deer offhand with one shot, at ranges from 10 yards to over 200 yards, including a recent kill on a running buck, left-handed from a tree stand. I've also won more than my share of turkey shoots and running-deer shoots.

[603Country]

I'd probably use 150 gr Accubonds, but would work up the loads using 150 gr BT's. cheaper that way.

[kraigwy]

They are no longer made, or maybe just suspended, but if you could find some Hornady 150 Gr. Interbonds, you'll find they are accurate and quite effective on elk. Or at least they are in my Model 70.

I've killed elk and moose. Though smaller, I've found that elk are tougher then moose.

The Interbonds are about twice the price of SSTs, but they have the same BC. I stocked up on both, and they shoot the same. On paper you cant tell the difference. So I use the SSTs for paper and gongs, and save my IBs for hunting.

With a listed BC of 0.525 they make excellent long range bullets.

[langenc]

AS Wyosmith said in post #2, the moose aint going to drop over unless you get real lucky.

Someone else said the kill area is as big as a washtub, true.

Just get a round or two into the chest cavity and it will do the job--sooner or later.

Heavier bullet than 130 may be indicated, preferrably a couple of em.

I got lucky on an AK moose and hit it multiple times w/ 30-06--180 gr Silvertips. It only went 30 yrds, shooting distance about 160 yrds.

[Picher]

I reloaded a few Nosler Partitions that I'd pulled because the loads were too hot. The new loads were fine and accuracy of the pulled bullets wasn't bad, but I want to try using un-pulled bullets to see what they'll do.

Meanwhile, I'm awaiting delivery of 140 grain Nosler Accubonds. They should be excellent for moose, especially for lung/heart shots. Regardless, I'm prepared to immediately work the action and to shoot more than one shot, if necessary to keep retrieval manageable.

Being 73 years old, and considering there will be only be two of us, retrieval is a major concern. My son is rugged and have both a winch and block and tackle, but conditions where we've seen moose when bird hunting were often terrible, or could become so within a few yards.

JP

[Kachok]

Stick with controlled expansion 150s. I love Ballistic Tips, SGKs, and SSTs on deer but I would step up to Interbond, A-Frame, Partition, or TSX bullets for moose class game, those tougher bullets might not generate as much shock as a frangible bullet but they create more then enough wound trauma on a forward shoulder shot. I shoot 150s in mine simply because they are considerably more accurate and they will drop a deer like a bad habit. The 150gr Partition is probably the best compromise due to it's fast initial expansion and high weight retention ensuring deep penetration, if you are on a budget the 150gr Hotcore has a solid reputation as well without a high price tag, shame Speer does not make the deep curl anymore, I still have about 800 left.

[Slamfire]

I have seen 2 killed with 270s. One was heart shot and went about 2 body lengths and fell. The other didn't even move but just looked up as if to see what had just happened, stood for about 7-10 seconds and then fell.

Based on your descriptions, I think a 35 Whelen would be a better moose cartridge than a 270 Win. Bigger hole.

My FN Mauser Deluxe shot better with 150's than 130's.







Still the 130's would hold about 2.5 MOA out to 300 yards. I think the fact that the CMP bull is a huge, featureless black circle, that I have to quarter with a scope, increased the group size at 300 yards. If I had something to aim at I am sure the group would have been smaller.

[Picher]

Slamfire: I've been handloading since 1960, but have never heard of using beeswax on copper-jacketed centerfire ammo. Apparently, it seems to work very well for you, but I'm a bit concerned about handling the ammo in the field.

I'm wondering whether lubricating Barnes copper and Hornady GMX bullets would greatly reduce fouling and enhance bore cleaning. The grooves should hold grease quite well.

BTW: I don't have a .35 Whalen, but have a couple of .270s and my son has my older .30-06, so we'll be fine. Both of my rifles are stainless, the older one with a synthetic stock (bad weather gun) and the new one, a customized Stocky's wood stock, for better weather, which I'm hoping to shoot the moose with.

[Slamfire]

Slamfire: I've been handloading since 1960, but have never heard of using beeswax on copper-jacketed centerfire ammo. Apparently, it seems to work very well for you, but I'm a bit concerned about handling the ammo in the field.

Grease on bullets is a mess, will pick up dirt, I don't recommend it for shooters in the field. However off the bench, I am not dropping my rounds in the dirt. Back in the day of steel jacketed and cupronickel bullet jackets, greasing the bullet was the order of the day. In fact, search the literature of the era, that is the Arms and the Man prior to 1921, and it was the foolish man who did not grease their bullets.



A number of countries issued greased bullet ammunition. The Canadian Ross ammunition, the steel jacketed stuff was greased. So were the Austrian steel bullets, the Italian, and Russian steel bullets of the period. These are Swiss rounds, they had been issuing greased ammunition prior to WW1, stopped it around 1984. The lube has the consistency of a toilet bowl ring.

I'm wondering whether lubricating Barnes copper and Hornady GMX bullets would greatly reduce fouling and enhance bore cleaning. The grooves should hold grease quite well.

It might, in fact, it should, if you have enough lubricant. I have conducted experiments with hellious amounts of grease, primarily to test safety.



That grease which did not go up the barrel was squeezed out into the action.



I use a lot less when fire forming cases



I am of the opinion that fouling is reduced and barrel clean up was faster. This is hard to prove with only a cleaning rod. If I had a bore scope I could make a better case, but I will say, even with the lighter, dip and twist, method of greasing a case, I can see down the tube, evidence of a grease coating all the way down. One rifle, a 6.5 X 55 Swede, the bullets fouled heavily in the throat, until I started greasing them. Then the fouling dropped and went away.

Out to 600 yards my greased bullets shot acceptably in hunting rifles. Back in the 1990's moly grease lube was all the rage, and many shooters shot outstanding groups, but the long range shooters became skeptics. One Long Range Champ I know claimed past 800 yards his scores were consistently lower by a point or two, so he gave molylube up. Another consideration was the molylube tracked into the house. It gets on your hands, then your glasses, counters, etc.

I cannot prove that greased bullets will increase barrel life, but I have proved to my satisfaction that barrel clean up was quick, case life extended, and the stuff shoots well as far as I can hold.

[ammo.crafter]

Have you researched Hawk Precision Bullets from southern New Jersey?

Check their website. They make bullets for specific game and velocity via copper jacket thicknesses.

I've used these bullets on 2 hunts and found them to perform with excellence in my Contender in .358Bellm.

Good hunting!

[jimbob86]

Any 130 or 140 grain bullet out of a .270 will kill Bullwinkle with no fuss.

I've seen a 130gr Winchester Silvertip (the old one) disintegrate in impact with a 1 1/2 yo whitetail ..... left a large shallow wound. It killed him, but a similar wound on a moose? I would not bet on it...... so "any 130 (or 140) bullet" wouldn't fly with me.

I'd bet on a 150 gr bonded bullet of some sort. Moose are very large (large boiler room)and the ranges likely to be very short considering the .270 WIN's reach..... 3moa would be adequate, but I'd go with a bonded bullet if it shot better.

[Picher]

Yesterday, I received some 140 grain Bonded Ballistic Tips that will be tested soon. I also have some 150 grain Nosler Partitions and 150 grain Speer Grand Slams that will also be considered. I also have some Barnes 140 grain bullets and loaded rounds that would also do the trick.

Saturday, there's a gun show nearby and I plan to get some new .270 cases and a few other supplies. Nothing left to chance, at least in the ammo department.

JP

[hooligan1]

Those Accubonds and Partitions and Sierra Gamekings in 150 is what Id try.
I have a load developed for my .270 win and 150 grn ABLR's, with Magpro powder that would proba ly get the nod for moose with no trouble..

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

I'll keep you posted.

Ok.

BTW 270 is OK for use on a Elk. Wounded they won't charge their hunter. Moose?
Maybe consider trading in a couple of those 270s you have in on a new 300 Win Mag and be happy ever after in your'e hunting whatever.
When it comes to harvesting a old Bull moose. "The BIGGER the cartridge the better."

[Picher]

Tried both Hornady 140 Interlocks and Nosler 140 Bonded BTs, using the same seater setting. The Hornadys shot fine, but the Noslers wouldn't eject without rapping the bolt handle near the top of it's stroke with a hammer handle. Primers on the Nosler rounds were cratered, but not severely flattened and there was no ejector hole stamp on the rims. The load was 47.5 grains of Reloder 22, over CCI Magnum primers.

I'm wondering whether the ogive on the Noslers caused them to be too close to the lands, thus increasing pressure, or whether the BTs had a stiffer jacket.

JP