LEE Factory Crimp Die

[robhic]

I've read a number of people who like/use the FCD to finish their loads. I thought I'd get one for 38/357 for the roll crimp. Taper crimp I feel I'm good.

So I read the instructions included, set up the die accordingly and went to test it on loaded ammo (38) I'd made a while ago. The round barely got started and went no further. Didn't want to force anything so I took the die out to insert the round by hand where I could see. Still barely enters the die. Hmmmm.....

So I grabbed just an empty case and tried that by hand - nope. It only went in a tiny bit, too. Am I doing something wrong, expecting something the die won't do or should I lube the case/round to be crimped? I didn't try to raise the ram further than it went until stop.

Didn't want to bulge anything or ruin a good round. But I'd like to get this sucker working and see how it improves my roll-crimps. Suggestion or advice? Thanks!

[Scoits]

The only problem I have had is when I bell the case mouth too much the case is hard to get up into the die.

[robhic]

The only problem I have had is when I bell the case mouth too much the case is hard to get up into the die.

That was my thought, too. Maybe my hand loads were a bit larger diameter due to my crimp (although I HAD checked them by plunking in the revolver cylinder). So I used an empty, sized case and it, TOO, barely entered the FCD. This is what's puzzling me.

[mikld]

Sounds like your reloads are a bit larger in diameter than the die thinks they should be. The sizing ring on the die is trying to size your good ammo "so every round will positively chamber freely with factory like dependability" according to Lee, and I've read it sizes them to lower SAAMI specs. I had one and it swaged down my perfectly sized bullets .003", and it now resides in a landfill somewhere in So. Oregon. I have successfully reloaded tens of thousands of rounds of hand gun ammo without the need for a Lee FCD, and I recommend a new reloader learn how to adjust their dies and how to troubleshoot their ammo problems without covering them up with an FCD. Now the Lee FCD for rifle ammo is a very good tool...

[zplinker]

My thoughts exactly. When you have a bullet perfectly sized for your barrel, then squeeze it down, there goes your perfectly sized bullet. My pistol Factory Crimp die is collecting dust.

[Unclenick]

Ideally, you would want to determine what size fits your chamber easily, then use diamond lapping compound to open the sizing ring to allow that size. Personally, I've never had a factory chamber tight enough to require this device.

For revolver cartridges that are prone to having bullets back out due to recoil, I've generally preferred the Redding Profile Crimp die, which starts as a taper and then ends in a roll crimp shoulder. For lighter target loads and automatic pistol loads, I've used a standard taper crimp die. The newer issue has been with the increasing popularity of plated bullets, with which you most often have neither crimp groove nor cannelure. For that bullet shape, if you need to crimp, Lee has its Collet-Style Crimp Die for revolver cartridges. I note they are currently on sale at Midway for about $12. These impress a crimp, same as the original Lee Factory Crimp die for rifle cartridges does. The die that is giving you trouble is the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die, with the word "Carbide" distinguishing it from the rifle Factory Crimp Die line. The newer Collet-Style Crimp Die is really no different except they had to change the collet design to work with something as short as a handgun cartridge.

[Stats Shooter]

There are other options,

If you want a factory crimp, you can polish out the inside of the collet on a factory crimp die for that gun....or you can ask lee to open it up 0.003" if necessary for a small fee. Or you can just give up and pitch it in the garbage.

I use the lee FCD on several cartridges and it works much better than a taper crimp or roll crimp/seater die. I can crimp it as tightly or as little as I like with no fear of bulging out case shoulders.
But, it isn't always necessary.

[Nick_C_S]

robhic: It shows good sense to not try to force anything. One of the hallmarks of a good loader. I wish I could be there to actually know what's going on. Trying to insert a loaded round or flaired case by hand will be fruitless - so that test is not telling. I just checked with my FCD: A resized - but not flaired - case will slide into the die by hand with no problem. I didn't try a flaired or loaded case - I already know they won't go by hand. So if a resized empty case won't insert by hand, there is a problem. If it goes in by hand, you may want to try a loaded round again - using a little more effort. Maybe you were just erring on the side of caution.

I use the Lee FCD for every 38/357 round that I load. Most of what I load is target level - which gets a taper crimp. So with these, they still go through the FCD post-taper crimp, but I have the actual crimp part of the die disengaged. So they're just going through the collar at its base; and rarely is there any engagement at all. I'm on a progressive, so it's no extra effort. I digress . . .

I have some old 38 Special brass that has become soft or whatever. And there is no way to make ammo with this brass that 100% of them will fit into the cylinder's charge holes, without the use of the FCD to "iron out" the side walls. I realize the argument would be to not use that brass - fair enough. Point is, ammo can be made from it that is as good as anybody else's after it goes through the FCD. Is that "doing things right?" I don't know. Who cares. It fixes the problem and the end result is excellent ammo. I'm struggling to find anything wrong with that. Water can be made from urine; but it's still water. Water is water - who cares how it got there. Just for the record, I'm swimming in 38 Spl brass and I no longer use this aforementioned old brass. But if it was all I had, I wouldn't hesitate using it; and I would defy anybody to prove it inferior to anybody else's. This is starting to sound like a rant, apologies.

The FCD is not magic. It just has a collar at its base that will iron out any imperfections in the case post-seat. (And these imperfections may not be due to improperly adjusting the die. The concept is rather silly because everybody knows how to adjust a seat die - it's child's play.) Then, the actual crimp part "floats" so the collar at its base can reach as far down the case as possible - while still being able to adjust the amount of crimp at the top of the case - 38 or 357. It's simple. It's clever. And it works.

My only suggestion is to see for yourself how it works. Then decide for yourself if you want to use it.

As an aside: I've heard a lot of good things about the Redding Profile Crimp Die. I have never used one however.

[robhic]

Hmm, such varied results: Try again, try another casing, lap the die-ring or toss it in the trash! I don't think I'm ready to toss it just yet. I also don't think I wanna alter the die-ring. As I was reading I thought about this from the instructions. Insert a sized and loaded cartridge into the FCD. Do not crimp after seating.

The round I used WAS seated and roll-crimped. It might've been a bit out of spec for the die, but they had fit in the cylinder of the revolver cuz I checked after reloading. I also only tried 1 re-sized case and since it came from my container of .38spl brass, I figured it had been sized upon decapping when I first cleaned/processed my empties.

I think I am gonna try a few more cases AND actually run one in using a bit more pressure (empty case). I think some case lube to help might also be tried.

Thanks for the thoughts. I'm gonna give it a try with another empty case or two in case I squash one.

[berettaprofessor]

That LCD does NOT resize the bullet. If you look in it, the bullet is not being touched as it acts to crimp. So something else is wrong. Have you mic-ed the cartridge to be sure it’s not oversized? Is the LCD actually a 38/357? It should be marked.

[Real Gun]

All indications seem to me to be that the die is not 38/357. However, if the case wall is thick and/or the bullet is .358 or more, there will be a lot of resistance, and the bullet will get swaged down in the process.

[robhic]

That LCD does NOT resize the bullet. If you look in it, the bullet is not being touched as it acts to crimp. So something else is wrong. Have you mic-ed the cartridge to be sure it’s not oversized? Is the LCD actually a 38/357? It should be marked.

Good idea! I went and checked the FCD and I got 0.375" I.D. Then I tried a "store-bought" round I had .38spl JRN and it FIT. So the round I made and tried must have been prevented by the roll-crimp and the empty case must not have been sized (as I first thought).

I'm gonna go play with it in a while but my revolver is in the shop getting a tune-up and since I use the cylinder to check fit and OAL I'm not gonna be able to do much until I get my 5-shot chamber-gauge back.

Thanks for the idea!

[mikld]

If you want a factory crimp, you can polish out the inside of the collet on a factory crimp die for that gun....or you can ask lee to open it up 0.003" if necessary for a small fee. Or you can just give up and pitch it in the garbage.

The FCD for handguns (a post crimping sizing die w/carbide ring) is a different animal than the FCD for rifles/bottle necked cartridges (a collet crimp die).

[robhic]

The FCD for handguns (a post crimping sizing die w/carbide ring) is a different animal than the FCD for rifles/bottle necked cartridges (a collet crimp die).

I knew that. I only load for pistol and I checked to be sure it was a 38/357 die. But thanks for the heads up!

[Mike38]

I use the LFCD for .45acp reloads. I have a Kart barrel with a tight chamber on my 1911. The way the LFCD "irons out" the case saves me lots of problems. I've actually gone 7 matches, 630 rounds, without a failure of any kind with the 1911. Couldn't say that before the LFCD.

[Real Gun]

If you have more than one 38 or .357 gun or any plan to own another, it is time to invest in a cartridge gauge. I see that Hornady has introduced their own line of gauges, which are already available from Dillon, Lyman, Wilson, et al.

[DLM]

Both these dies do a bit of resizing, but the Redding die is far superior to the FCD. The FCD is only a ring, and can follow indents in a case, leaving the sides of the loaded shell not completely parallel.

The Redding die completely encases the round, in effect placing a taper crimp as the round is inserted, and if desired will then place a roll crimp on the case mouth, if the die is so adjusted.

The result is a perfectly straight sided round, crimped as desired, that does not need to be run through a case gauge. If run through the Redding die, it WILL fit any standard chamber of that caliber. Running them through a case gauge is an exercise in futility. Simply not needed.

When seating the bullet, prior to using the Profile Crimp die, I set the seating die to straighten, (Not crimp), the belled case mouth, so it enters the Redding die more easily. Yes it does resize the case to minimum size spec's, so there is a small bit of effort required to run the round through the Redding die. However, the results are superb. I have used the profile crimp dies on all straight sided pistol ammo, 32 caliber through 45 caliber, for the last 30 years, with nothing but excellent results.

I'll agree with the previous poster, the Lee Factory Crimp die for bottleneck cases is without peer. Does a fantastic job. DLM

[Real Gun]

Can't argue with good results, but it should not go without mention what a Redding Profile Crimp die costs (for each caliber). When a seat/crimp is adjusted right, mostly the crimp, a round with nominal lead bullet diameter will drop neatly into a cartridge gauge, which is good to verify reliability in feeding and uniformity of ammo needed to fit multiple guns (a standard). I get a few anomalies,, perhaps slightly crooked bullets, so after gauging every round, I might find a few that will gauge okay if I run through the FCD (without the stem). Then I will typically see a rub mark in one place on the case.

[skinnedknuckles]

Originally Posted by mikld

The FCD for handguns (a post crimping sizing die w/carbide ring) is a different animal than the FCD for rifles/bottle necked cartridges (a collet crimp die).

Note that Lee does make a collet style die for several pistol cartridges, including .357 magnum. It isn't always listed on the web site, but if you are interested you can call. I use it for crimping full power .357 loads for use in my lever gun.