P320 Failure to go into Battery

[dedrevil]

So, I have a new p320 build.
-New Sig Frame
-New Norsso Slide
-New PMM Barrel
-New Sig Recoil Spring Assembly
-Re-using firing pin, trigger group, extractor/spring out of my well-used P320 X-Five

From the first round, I have been having failures to go into battery. It's getting better the more I shoot, but since I haven't seen 9mm on the shelf locally in about 9 months, I'm looking for another solution to fix it (it's my current EDC).

I know the problem is narrowed down to the extractor, but I can't figure out why or how.

[TunnelRat]

You’re using a third party slide and a third party barrel with the OEM extractor from your
X-Five? I just want to make sure I understand the configuration correctly.

Does the extractor in question work well in your X-Five? If it does then my guess would be some tolerance stacking problem between all the parts in question. How did you isolate the problem to the extractor?


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[dedrevil]

correct.

I was talking out parts and cycling snap caps, seeing if that changed anything, and it did not have issues without the extractor.

You can feel the point when it binds, or sticks, even when manually operating the action slowly

[TunnelRat]

Okay.

Not having the extractor means the cartridge rim isn’t forced under the extractor and it will feed easier in terms of just pushing a cartridge into the chamber. But then you can’t extract the case obviously. Assuming this extractor functioned without issue in the X-Five, I’m not sure that test alone confirms the extractor is solely responsible. The other concern I’d have is if you get another factory extractor you might have the same problem (again if that extractor functioned fine in a factory pistol).


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[dedrevil]

Well, when a round is chambered and when slowing pulling slide back it binds.
I thought it possbily a fitment issue where the barrel locks up into the breach-face, but it only binds when there is a round chambered. I dont feel the binding when the gun is empty

[TunnelRat]

I’m not too surprised it doesn’t bind when empty.

The barrel chamber, the slide in terms of indexing the extractor onto the cartridge rim, and the extractor all work together when extracting a cartridge or case. That’s why I’m saying it’s hard to isolate the issue to just the extractor as you don’t have an alternate extractor to try. Since that extractor functions fine in the other pistol it may be that it won’t work or will require fitment to work in that particular slide and/or with that barrel.

I’m trying to think of your next step and I’m not sure buying another extractor will solve the issue (at least I can’t say for sure). I like the modularity of the P320, but combining parts from three vendors means you may have to do so fitting to get it to work.


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[dedrevil]

I decided to try it out on the other slide, feels like it binds in same spot. But the x-five never had a failure to go into battery.
The new build is based on a sub-compact slide, I wonder if the longer slide of the x-five had enough reciprocating mass to avoid the problem.

[44 AMP]

Sometimes "parts is parts" just doesn't work.

I would caution you against trusting snap caps to be dummy (testing) rounds.

Sometimes a snap cap will work where a live round will not.

Not common, but I've seen it happen.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

Sometimes "parts is parts" just doesn't work.

I would caution you against trusting snap caps to be dummy (testing) rounds.

Sometimes a snap cap will work where a live round will not.

Not common, but I've seen it happen.

Fair point. I’ve also had the reverse, where a snap cap didn’t work well but a live cartridge (or specifically in my case a real brass case) worked fine.


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[HighValleyRanch]

It's getting better the more I shoot, but since I haven't seen 9mm on the shelf locally in about 9 months

From this I am guessing that you don't reload, so my question is if you are using the same loads, have you chronographed them to see that if it's an ammo/power issue that is not cycling the round properly. The ammo affects the timing. Second, you indidcated a new barrel. Did you plunk test to see again that it is not an ammo related problem? Many of the issues of notgoing fully into battery I've had in the past are due to exactly this. Just another place to investigate.

Is it binding on the lockup without a cartridge? Did you try lubricating?

[dedrevil]

i dont reload 9mm, but it does plunk test fine.

It is lubricated appropiately

Snap caps and live rounds both do it

it is not binding without a cartridge

[Shadow9mm]

It's hard to say/isolate with all the new parts. Generally I try to only change 1 thing at a time when doing upgrades. Not really an option in this case. I'm guessing it's an issue of stacked tolerances between the makers not working. But how to isolate it I don't know. And the bigger question, how to fix it....


This is why I generally stick to factory guns, or factory parts... I'm just not willing to deal with these issues.

[claydoctor]

I was having feed problems recently with two of my .38 Super pistols. Finally deduced it was the Armscor ammunition I was using. If you can find another brand of 9mm ammo, try that.

[dedrevil]

I probably just need to bite the bullet, and buy some ammo and hit the range.
It was getting better the more I shot, just hard to fork out the cash at $0.50 a round, and even less willing to pull the trigger at that price lol

[JohnKSa]

I'm looking for another solution to fix it (it's my current EDC).

You're carrying a frankengun you know to be unreliable?

[dedrevil]

Originally Posted by JohnKSa

You're carrying a frankengun you know to be unreliable?

Mean what I know

lol, I tried to shorthand that part and it didn't make sense, my bad.

It's my EDC build, it's what I want to carry every day, and that's why I'm looking for help so I can start carrying it. Getting too warm to carry my 92 in a shoulder rig under a jacket.

I had surgery right before I posted the original post, and was hoping to work on it while recovering.

But, by next week, I should be good to get out to the range; maybe I'll try to capture the malfunction on video.

[JohnKSa]

Ok, that makes more sense.

I'd want to do a good bit of shooting with that gun once it seems to be functional. Various kinds of ammo, especially a decent amount of the ammo you intend to carry. Definitely including some one-hand shooting, (weak hand too), to make sure it's reliable.

Normally when one buys a gun, they can assume that the manufacturer (if it's a reputable one) did a lot of testing to make sure the design is reliable before taking it to market. Even then, we often see some "teething problems" on new introductions.

What you've done is basically come up with a new design by putting together a collection of parts from different manufacturers. Your gun may not be a one-of-a-kind, but it's certainly one of a small group of guns in that configuration. When Norsso tested that slide, did they test it with a PMM barrel? We don't know. If they did, how much did they test it, and with how many kinds of ammunition?

You're now the manufacturer, for practical purposes, and you'll want to do just like the manufacturer did--test the gun extensively to make sure it is reliable. It's one thing to build up a gun for fun at the range, but when you want it to be a self-defense gun, the reliability requirement is definitely a lot more important.

[dedrevil]

Originally Posted by JohnKSa

Ok, that makes more sense.

I'd want to do a good bit of shooting with that gun once it seems to be functional. Various kinds of ammo, especially a decent amount of the ammo you intend to carry. Definitely including some one-hand shooting, (weak hand too), to make sure it's reliable.

Normally when one buys a gun, they can assume that the manufacturer (if it's a reputable one) did a lot of testing to make sure the design is reliable before taking it to market. Even then, we often see some "teething problems" on new introductions.

What you've done is basically come up with a new design by putting together a collection of parts from different manufacturers. Your gun may not be a one-of-a-kind, but it's certainly one of a small group of guns in that configuration. When Norsso tested that slide, did they test it with a PMM barrel? We don't know. If they did, how much did they test it, and with how many kinds of ammunition?

You're now the manufacturer, for practical purposes, and you'll want to do just like the manufacturer did--test the gun extensively to make sure it is reliable. It's one thing to build up a gun for fun at the range, but when you want it to be a self-defense gun, the reliability requirement is definitely a lot more important.

On semi's I normally do atleast 200 rounds of break in (sometimes more depending on if I had failures during break-in), and if ammo wasnt the way it is right now I would still be putting rounds down range instead of posting.

Just was hoping someone might have the magic answer and I could save a lot of money. Damn panic buyers. lol

[Aguila Blanca]

The staff thinks that this question might get a better response in the discussion area for gunsmithing, so I'm moving it to The Smithy.

[dedrevil]

Thank you for the move

Also, had a range trip today. Bought steel case online for 50 cents a round, and of course, a week later my local gun store finally had 9mm on the shelf. Brass and only 30 cents a round lol!

Shot 65 rounds
Only had 1 failure to go into battery, but once I dropped the mag, it popped in. Cheap mag I was testing, most likely the cause. (like I said earlier, im sure its just a burr or too tight of a tolerance somewhere. Normally i would have already shot another 100-200 rounds through it before even posting on here, but was trying to save ammo)

I did have 5 FTF's, but I saved them and shot them at the end of the day and they all fired, they had strong primer strikes the first attempt, just crap primers IMO..

I will say, after 65 rounds, that action was stiffer than grandpa looking at his 12 months of Helen Mirren calendar!
I've never owned such a short barrel 9mm (3.6"), and I'm assuming they just get dirty quick. I also am running it with way more gun oil than normal to aid in the "Self-clearancing" during break in.

[4V50 Gary]

One step at a time.

Factory magazine?
Factory ammo?

Take it from there.