Any R51 updates?

[A pause for the COZ]

A little more grist for the R51 mill. Snagged this at:
http://r51pistol.com/general-discuss...-51s-any-news/

8:44 this morning - I was just called by a person at Remington that is in the know and I am once again excited about the R51. The last person I emailed yesterday, sent my email up the chain to someone that truly cares about the image of the company for which he works. That person told me the testing that has been going on has been extremely successful and the R51 WILL be going back into production. There is one single part that was holding up the final acceptance, but the final tweaking was done in December so that it would comply with the requirements. Had it not been acceptable, they would have had to redesign the tooling for the frame. Those requirements are based off of a maximum amount of rounds that it is designed to handle for the expected life of the pistol before any part has to be replaced. All of the production line new R51 pistols are being shot each day and then evaluated, then put through the same testing again and again until they have been tested to meet those maximum amount of rounds.

Being as frustrated as all of us who are still hanging on to the possibility that the R51 will be corrected and re released, I felt much better after the conversation. I was told the decision as to the actual release date will only be made after all of the testing is completed, and the testing is much more strenuous than ever before on any model. Similarly, the new RM380 also was supposed to be released several months prior to its actual release date, but was delayed because of the additional QC that done in the tooling tolerances and testing that had to meet the approval of the engineers first. We discussed some of the posts being published on the forums about several conspiracy theories: "Remington has been leading people on to reduce the financial impact of having to reimburse its consumers all at the same time"…"The new pistols in design will be issued to replace the R51"…etc., etc. We discussed several of the issues I have posted on this forum. I had run over 800 rounds through the one that I returned and it was functioning fine. My biggest issue was it was showing some minor wear on the Disconnector. I was told the design of the final part that was accepted in December 2015, before the new R51 was approved by their engineers to comply with the design requirements. The new version of the R51 with all of its approved parts functioning the way it is supposed to, (and I assume with the new improved parts shown during the Shot Show 2015) is in the final firing testing and WILL BE GOING INTO PRODUCTION as soon as these tests are completed. Doing some "cipherin" on my own…at 65 rounds a day, if they are shooting a total of 5000 rounds, that would equal 77 days of shooting, (without including any days for tolerance evaluation, checking for wear on the barrel, slide, trigger, disconnector, ejector, etc.) and at 21 working days in a month, that is three and a half months. Since the redesign of the final part was approved in December, then that pushes the testing completion at least into April or May at a minimum.

I explained there are a lot of diehard Remington R51 loyal consumers that have still been waiting, (either patiently optimistic because we are smart enough to know that when something is rushed, mistakes are caused; or pretty darn stupid, because why would any smart person remain optimistic after being patient so long) but their frustration level is reaching its peak and even some of them are already changing their brand. If what I was told is factual, (and I believe it is) we will have our replacements this year (hopefully this summer). The conversation also included talk about several other launches that are in the works…but will not be released until the engineers testing is completed on the production line pieces first. We spoke for 18 minutes and 44 seconds. Later this morning, I noticed I had received a reply at 9:12 from the engineer fellow that I emailed as my last ditch effort yesterday:

"I am sorry to hear that you are still unable to resolve your customer service issue regarding your R51. I have forwarded your entire message to my boss who will do what can be done to obtain additional information; when I receive a reply, I will pass it on to you."


Still hoping to be a future R51, Gen 2 Beta Tester,
T3

[Ibmikey]

Coz, Glad to see a positive attitude on this issue in the midst of so much doom and gloom. I too am enthusiastic to see the re issue and perhaps purchase one as the design intrigues me, the first issue came and went before i could inspect one much less purchase the pistol. So hopefully the near future will bring a smile to your face and a pistol in your pocket.

[Model12Win]

Well, that settles it.

THE REMINGTON R51 IS COMING BACK IN 2016!!!

I'm very excited by this news! I just hope this second go around is a little smoother, and they fix the minor teething issues that happened with the original roll out. It was good of Remington to realize the gun needed some more work, hence the recall. I'm sure it will come back even stronger than before.

[chris in va]

I'll be honest, I'd sell my Kahr K9 to get an R51 that works.

[FrankenMauser]

THE REMINGTON R51 IS COMING BACK IN 2016!!!

Don't hold your breath.

The Marlin Model 444 that Remington had to kill in 2012, because they couldn't make one that actually functioned, is coming back in 2016!!!!

Except it's not.
Two days after confirming that it was going into production in late January, they sent an update that production was delayed "until at least 3Q 2016" ... which means it ain't happening.

It was also coming back in 2014, three different times.
And then, "BIG NEWS!!", it was in production in January 2015! ...Except they only made a handful of them, and none left the factory.
But wait, it was going into production in June 2015 for August shipment to distributors!
Except it didn't.


Honestly, I can count on one finger the only time in the last 10 years that Remington brought a model back that was previously discontinued due to their ineptitude and inability to manufacture it in a manner that resulted in a SAFE and RELIABLE firearm. That one model is/was the Marlin 1895 in .45-70.
They had to kill it for the same reason they killed the Model 444: They couldn't make a good one to save their own skin, and it was hurting their reputation (because everyone knew it was Remington screwing the pooch in their own factory - not Marlin). --And when they did come back, they were still pretty bad for 2-3 years.

[Ibmikey]

Frankenstein, You make another cheery prediction when you obviously have no interest in the pistol or company for that matter. If the pistol is re released some of us will entertain purchase but obviously you would not under any circumstances consequently you do nothing constructive with your negative comments. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but your Remington dislike has been recorded in many past posts and becoming somewhat redundant.

[A pause for the COZ]

If the R51 gen2 materializes. I am buying one 1st thing. It will be a for sure cant loose.
If it works... Great I have the single stack 9 that has all the features I want.

If its a dog.. still cant loose. My CM9 can still fill the role and there will be a gun in the collection that will be rare and worth some ging some day.

Just think of the lucky guy that has a in the box unfired Gen1 in his safe right now.

[Wishoot]

It will be a for sure cant loose.

If its a dog.. still cant loose.

"Can't lose"? How do you figure?

You're out the money and then you're stuck in an onerous warranty cycle with Remington. Sounds like you lose big-time if the re-release is another turkey.

[lee n. field]

At this point I'm having trouble remembering which year the 9mm R51 came out in. Two years ago? Three?

[A pause for the COZ]

If its a dog, it will be a collectors item. maybe not for me, but for my Son it maybe worth some ging.
I will box it up with all sales receipts and supporting paper work, add a note about the gun " The infamous R51" and let it sit.

[zincwarrior]

I like the concept, but they really screwed upon the release. If they screwed it up a second time it would be disastrous.

its one thing if its a manufacturer defect. But from reports made, it sounds like the underlying design is poor. There may be a reason this cycling method never made it off the ground.

[A pause for the COZ]

If it does come out. pretty sure #1 it will work other wise they would be the dumbest company on the face of the earth.
#2 I bet they will cost more than the 1st one. With the gen 1 they thought they could compete in the low price end of the pool. Going against simple, easy to produce, proven designs. With a very complex unique design.
Mim and CNC would save the day.

Ummm NO...

So it is possible they may release a gen2 but it will be at a price point that will take them out of the market.

[PolarFBear]

I have followed this entire post with interest. But, I am confused (often easily). What IS wrong with the Remington R1? Is the R1 the basic 1911 or some "zoomie" poly-plastic/zinc wonder gun? How hard can it be to make a 1911? I have seen a couple of Remington 1911's at various dealers. They look normal. There was also a mention of defective Marlin 444's. I've a friend that had a .444 about 10 years ago. It seemed to be an OK long gun. I was even considering a current one for myself. Send me some forum inks to these defective firearms please; I need to better educate myself.

[TunnelRat]

I have followed this entire post with interest. But, I am confused (often easily). What IS wrong with the Remington R1?

The Remington R1 is not the Remington R51.

[FrankenMauser]

Originally Posted by IBMikey

Frankenstein, You make another cheery prediction when you obviously have no interest in the pistol or company for that matter. If the pistol is re released some of us will entertain purchase but obviously you would not under any circumstances consequently you do nothing constructive with your negative comments. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but your Remington dislike has been recorded in many past posts and becoming somewhat redundant.

My choice not to express a view on the pistol has no bearing on whether or not I am interested in it.

Wasting time drooling over something that isn't available, because it turned out to be unreliable or even dangerous during its short lifespan, is a fruitless endeavor.

If it ever hits the streets again, you may see my opinion.

Until then...
Lay off the underhanded playground insults and face the reality that Remington wants to maximize profit.
They don't care if they have orders for 1,000 R51s that may or may not be another PR disaster (with half of them, or more, being 'warranty' replacements that are an expense rather than a profit), when they can ship 10,000 Model 700s and 870 shotguns, and keep plugging along with business profit as usual.

[Limnophile]

How is it possible to get a few prototypes to run flawlessly, then not be able to get the manufacturing process to be able to put out functional products? Obviously the prototypes were hand-tuned, but is it that hard to set modern manufacturing specs to approximate hand-finished results? Or, is the problem that in doing so the cost is driven up substantially, such that the R51 is no longer at a competitive price point?

[zincwarrior]

Maybe they didn't run flawlessly, or to run decently the manufacturing process had to be at a level they could not achieve at that price point?

[Cheapshooter]

How is it possible to get a few prototypes to run flawlessly, then not be able to get the manufacturing process to be able to put out functional products? Obviously the prototypes were hand-tuned, but is it that hard to set modern manufacturing specs to approximate hand-finished results? Or, is the problem that in doing so the cost is driven up substantially, such that the R51 is no longer at a competitive price point?

You pretty much sum up what happened with the first generation of the R51. The engineers, and production people built a good, workable design. Then before it hit the public market, the bean counters cut corners to bring the price point to where they wanted it without enough further testing to insure the changes didn't effect operation.
I saw one of the early models. It looked good, felt good, and was quite interesting. I didn't get the chance to shoot one, but I am still interested in getting one of the new ones. It may replace my Kahr CM9, but may just be another of my just interesting things that go boom.

[A pause for the COZ]

Originally Posted by Cheapshooter

but may just be another of my just interesting things that go boom.

I have lots of those too.

[SpareMag]

Well, at this point, no one can say the v2 was rushed into production.

Hope this one works out.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

https://youtu.be/VS3HZwBt-bs

It's back! And I want one!

[haiauphixu]

Just got the e-mail from Remington announcing that R51 will be back on the gun store shelves by Aug 12th. You can check it out on their web site.

[Knightsofnee]

Did you guys miss RyeonHam's Youtube review? I wouldn't pull that wallet out just yet.

[barnbwt]

They're reusing frames; I wonder if they're just gonna push out however many returned guns won't be going back to the original owners due to their opting for a refund/exchange, and end the product line there?

[barnbwt]

Well, at this point, no one can say the v2 was rushed into production.

They were rushed into production. They're still having issues with quality/function stemming from general cheapness...