Good Felons? - Page 2

PushPuller · October 17, 2018, 05:51 PM

I have a family member that had 5 burglary felonies from way back (early 80s). After 20 years or so he was able to get them expunged and did with relative ease. Has never had trouble buying a firearm since. That was in Kansas.

BumbleBug · October 28, 2018, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OP

I have read in Federal law that a person that has committed a felony not involving aggravation and after a large number of years is allowed to have long arms (shotgtuns) in their home for home protection but a guy that fits that bill just tried to buy a shotgun and was denied. How exactly does someone go about acquiring something like a shotgun for home protection in a situation like this? His felony was car theft.

Per the OP's original question, I have highlighted 2 areas. Going about buying a shotgun at a store, I don't know how to get around that restriction. But to have a shotgun in the privacy of your home for self-defense, couldn't the shotgun be the wife's or relative's? The person would have to deal with the consequences if they were forced to ever use it for defense.

**44 AMP** · October 28, 2018, 12:57 PM

Quote:

But to have a shotgun in the privacy of your home for self-defense, couldn't the shotgun be the wife's or relative's?

Who owns the gun isn't the relevant issue. Whether or not a prohibited person possess it, is. And, if the gun and the prohibited person are in the same place and the gun is stored in such a manner that the prohibited person can access it, then the law is being violated.

Note that it is "can access" that matters. The gun could be locked up, but if the prohibited person knows the safe combination, or the keys are on your key ring, hanging on a hook in the kitchen..., then they have access in the eyes of the law.

Once you are a prohibited person, you stay a prohibited person, until and unless all the relevant levels of government formally change your status, by restoring your rights.

FrankenMauser · October 28, 2018, 02:39 PM

That. ^^^^

A prohibited person lives in my house.
All firearms must always be locked up, or under my direct control.
The only person in my house that knows the safe combinations is me.
All keys to firearms storage containers must remain in my control.
The prohibited person cannot be given access to the firearms, the storage containers, or my safes - in any way.

Simply leaving my daily-driver keys sitting on the kitchen counter, which provide access to a handgun lock box in the house, is a criminal act on my part. Should the prohibited person access any firearms, due to my 'negligence' in leaving keys accessible, then they are committing their own criminal act.

There is no 'grey area' or 'worrying about that later' when it comes to firearms and prohibited persons. Legal. Or illegal. There is nothing in between.

Brian Pfleuger · October 28, 2018, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankenMauser

There is no 'grey area' or 'worrying about that later' when it comes to firearms and prohibited persons. Legal. Or illegal. There is nothing in between.

While this is undoubtedly true "pre-incident", there are also instances of state laws and/or court precedent which specifically identify self-defense as an affirmative defense to illegal possession of a firearm.

I found one example at this link but I also know that NY and other states have similar sorts of laws. Reminds of Minority Report... only sort of in reverse.

**Spats McGee** · October 28, 2018, 03:39 PM

What Brian Pfleuger has posted appears to be a jury instruction on "transitory possession," which is an exemption to the ordinary rules on Felons in Possession.

FrankenMauser · October 28, 2018, 07:45 PM

Aye. Both good points.

The way I see it:
A prohibited person possessing a firearm for self defense is a crime.
A prohibited person given open access to another's firearm for self defense is a crime.
A prohibited person being given instantaneous, situational, non-premeditated access to a firearm for self defense, is still a crime. ...But leeway may be granted, or charges dismissed, based on the particulars of the situation.

Such was the case here in Idaho a few years back. My Google-Fu is failing, and I can't come up with a link. Short summary: Convicted felon visits friends at one of their residences. Bad(der?) guys show up and start a fight. The fight turns to gunfire. Felon grabs the resident's shotgun and kills one bad guy (resulting in the rest fleeing). Multiple charges were filed.
The kill was ruled justified self defense, and the firearm possession charge was dropped. The felon walked away clean.

Kryptic · October 29, 2018, 11:11 AM

Yes, there is a very wealthy man that apparently can't own firearms of any kind anymore. But his wife has them.

Can't remember the guy's name - I think it might be a billionaire who turned into a felon for whatever reason - but someone told me the wife still keeps arms.

If they use them, though, yes, I am sure they will have some 'splainin' to do.

Glenn E. Meyer · October 31, 2018, 10:53 AM

Deleted some posts and replies dealing with SCOTUS but not directly relevant and full of politics.

Let's stay on topic.

October 28, 2018, 02:39 PM	#29
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	That. ^^^^ A prohibited person lives in my house. All firearms must always be locked up, or under my direct control. The only person in my house that knows the safe combinations is me. All keys to firearms storage containers must remain in my control. The prohibited person cannot be given access to the firearms, the storage containers, or my safes - in any way. Simply leaving my daily-driver keys sitting on the kitchen counter, which provide access to a handgun lock box in the house, is a criminal act on my part. Should the prohibited person access any firearms, due to my 'negligence' in leaving keys accessible, then they are committing their own criminal act. There is no 'grey area' or 'worrying about that later' when it comes to firearms and prohibited persons. Legal. Or illegal. There is nothing in between. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

October 28, 2018, 03:39 PM	#31
Spats McGee Staff Join Date: July 28, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 8,821	What Brian Pfleuger has posted appears to be a jury instruction on "transitory possession," which is an exemption to the ordinary rules on Felons in Possession. __________________ I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some.

October 28, 2018, 07:45 PM	#32
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	Aye. Both good points. The way I see it: A prohibited person possessing a firearm for self defense is a crime. A prohibited person given open access to another's firearm for self defense is a crime. A prohibited person being given instantaneous, situational, non-premeditated access to a firearm for self defense, is still a crime. ...But leeway may be granted, or charges dismissed, based on the particulars of the situation. Such was the case here in Idaho a few years back. My Google-Fu is failing, and I can't come up with a link. Short summary: Convicted felon visits friends at one of their residences. Bad(der?) guys show up and start a fight. The fight turns to gunfire. Felon grabs the resident's shotgun and kills one bad guy (resulting in the rest fleeing). Multiple charges were filed. The kill was ruled justified self defense, and the firearm possession charge was dropped. The felon walked away clean. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

October 31, 2018, 10:53 AM	#34
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Deleted some posts and replies dealing with SCOTUS but not directly relevant and full of politics. Let's stay on topic. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

October 17, 2018, 05:51 PM	#26
PushPuller Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2018 Posts: 156	I have a family member that had 5 burglary felonies from way back (early 80s). After 20 years or so he was able to get them expunged and did with relative ease. Has never had trouble buying a firearm since. That was in Kansas.

October 29, 2018, 11:11 AM	#33
Kryptic Junior Member Join Date: January 9, 2013 Posts: 14	Yes, there is a very wealthy man that apparently can't own firearms of any kind anymore. But his wife has them. Can't remember the guy's name - I think it might be a billionaire who turned into a felon for whatever reason - but someone told me the wife still keeps arms. If they use them, though, yes, I am sure they will have some 'splainin' to do.