LEO's what is safe etiquette when stopped

[Dusty Rivers]

I think it would be very informative if some experienced LEO's could chime in on how they need people of all color and gender to act when stopped for WHATEVER. I'm not looking for advice from anyone but trained experienced LEO's. Their opinions are the ones that count in this situation.

How do you want the public to act to keep us both safe?

[dstryr]

Interesting question. When a LEO charges up behind a driver and tailgates for a mile or two before hitting the lights and then comes all puffed up and asks why the driver is nervous(of course, that's the lead-in to the driver acting suspiciously)... Well, you're the one with the gun and aggressive run-up, maybe you have your answer?

That one time an officer came flying up behind me and then Lied as to where he came from, when he started following me(he said two miles but literally appeared out of nowhere), why he stopped me, all prompted a call to the SO headquarters, state police and city until I found out who he was, all this around 12-1am and woke some captain or div chief out of a good night's sleep to get it settled. I had every cop pegged as to where they were hiding for two miles, what cars( fiat 'vert, jeep wrangler) they had pulled over and how many patrol cars at each, the patrol car under the trees in a dark parking lot, the one flying the opposite direction I was going (est. 60-70 mph) on a 35mph street without lights. After I gave him every cop and location I asked him 'which one of those was you, because you Haven't been following me for two miles?" He told me I was swerving. I said no I wasn't and asked when he started following me again. He repeated it and I said flatly 'I didn't move 6 inches off the centerline of this lane and you know it. Where did you come from?'

I pinned him down, he had no probable cause to stop me and when he continued to lie the phone calls started. I went home after 40 minutes without stepping out of my car.

Another, a night I took a call for an intrusion alarm at my business and I was up and on the road at 2:20am to check it out. 10 minutes later I'm at work and verify the false alarm so headed home, 2-1/2 miles off an interstate on a major US highway. I'm 3/4 a mile from my turn to the house and I see a car's headlights probably 3/4 to 1 mile behind me. Its late, I'm tired and the reason I noticed was that since I was pretty much the Only moving vehicle in Sight, anywhere, I just eased my truck into the left lane w/o a signal... I figure who am I signalling to? the deer? Now this guy's gotta be going 100+mph and runs me down and first thing asks if I know why he pulled me over... I reply "my lane change without a signal? there's nobody to signal to.." He says no, I clocked you going 70mph back by the ramp....

BS... the end of the ramp is a stop light and the speed limit was 45 once I turned onto the US highway. Still not sure where he was hiding but lying once again and I argued with him that I stopped at the light, turned, may have been going 50ish, but that's it. Then the questions as to where I was coming from and I told him the intrusion alarm issue and invited him to call the sheriff's office to see which off his partners met me at my shop.

Left without pulling an ID or insurance card on that one too.

You know what? I've been stopped maybe 4 times in my life, the batting average for lack of integrity and forthrightness sucks.


You wonder why there's an issue...

[Minorcan]

Well dstryr, if you weren't driving that A12 440 Six-Pack Road Runner maybe you wouldn't get pulled over. Looks to fast and cool for me not to pull you over to get a closer look!!!

[Dusty Rivers]

That is not what I posted about.

[Don P]

LE has stated to me to inform them you are carrying and follow their instructions from that point. Here in FLA we are not required to inform but I do it anyway. I feel and believe it is being courteous and respecting the badge by doing so. Also by doing so if you are asked to exit the vehicle and they see/find the gun you are going to be in for a bit of a rough ride if you did not inform

[FM12]

Either A: Keep your hands on the steering wheel at 10 and 2 or B: Roll down the window and place your hands out the window, fingers spread. Do nothing until the officer directs you to/. Safely leave alive and well afterwards.

[shafter]

I don't mind when people inform me they're carrying in a calm manner. If you have permit then handing it over with your other paperwork is probably the best way. If make a speech out of it you're just going to sound nervous and suspicious.

But if there is no legal requirement to inform I wouldn't even bring it up unless I was going to be asked to get out of the vehicle. Most stops involve a few quick questions, running your information, and sending the driver on their way with either a warning or ticket.

My rule of thumb is, if the officer is going to see it then give him a heads up. I don't like surprises. If not, don't make an issue of it.

[manta49]

Its bad when you even need to ask that question, you should have no concerns when stopped by police.

[357 Python]

A few tips for anyone when you are pulled over whether young, old, black, white, straight, gay, Baptist, Muslim or anything else. First throw the attitude out the window. If you show a bad attitude the stop most likely will not go well for you. Second always be polite. You might be surprised how far a "Yes sir", "No sir", "What is the problem Sir and how do I correct it" can go. Third if you have anything that could be thought of as a weapon let the officer know in a polite manner such as "Officer just for your safety and mine I would like to let you know I have a hunting knife in the back seat area and a handgun in my gear bag on the back seat, how do you want to proceed?". Fourth is to keep your hands on the steering wheel and listen to what the officer tells you. Fifth do what the officer instructs and if there is confusion ask politely for clarification. Also if you want a good laugh that pokes some fun at these situations but the underlying truth still comes out is to watch the video from Chris Rock titled "How not to get your a__ kicked by the Police". It is an old video but the information is still good. I will warn you it is full of fowl language. Years ago I had a copy of it but loaned it out and never got it back.

[Ton]

I've posted this before.

Just a quick perspective.

There are about 900,000 sworn officers in the US. Some work in in admin and investigative jobs with little citizen contact, but for the sake of the argument lets say 500,000 work in a capacity where they have citizen contacts.

If 500,000 officers work 4 shifts a week, 48 weeks a year, and contact 5 people per shift (most active LEOs will know that's an absurdly low average), that's 480,000,000 a year. LEOs kill an average of 1200 people a year, according to some sources.

That means during a police contact, a person has about a 1 in 400,000 chance of being killed by police. A whopping 0.0000025 percent chance. This includes active shooters, murderers, violent felons, etc.

If we reduce that number further to police killings where an officer is charged with a crime as a result (about 5 a year), it leaves us with a frightening 1 in 80,000,000 chance.

I'm not saying something couldn't happen, but I am saying in any one year period you are about 114 times more likely to be struck by lightning than you are to be murdered by police during a traffic stop.

As someone has already said, it's not rocket science. Hands visible, inform officer immediately, wait for instructions.

Follow the advice in post #2 if you would like to contribute to your city/state/county's budget.

Stay inside and sandbag your house if you subscribe to the ideaology that fuels post like #8. They're gonna git 'cha.

[manta49]

Reading some of the posts it sounds like advice you would give someone in some police state. Is it that bad in America that you do what instructed by police for fear of being shot an a trafic stop, its the fact that people seem to think thats acceptable i find disturbing. As for what to do it sounds like you had better follow the advice given.

Stay inside and sandbag your house if you subscribe to the ideaology that fuels post like #8. They're gonna git 'cha.

Probably just me but i doint get your point. ?

[Ton]

Reading some of the posts it sounds like advice you would give someone in some police state. Is it that bad in America that you do what instructed by police for fear of being shot an a trafic stop, its the fact that people seem to think thats acceptable i find disturbing. As for what to do it sounds like you had better follow the advice given.

Nope, it's not that bad. But like every other prejudice, less than intelligent people will take extremely isolated incidents and use them to judge and categorize an entire group of people based on the color of their skin, clothes they wear, beliefs they subscribe to, etc.

My point is, if you consider the 0.00000001% chance to have to be "murdered" by American Police on the off chance you get stopped to be "that bad", you should probably just lock your doors and stay inside. You never know when those anvils might start falling from the sky.

[Old Bill Dibble]

There are about 900,000 sworn officers in the US. Some work in in admin and investigative jobs with little citizen contact, but for the sake of the argument lets say 500,000 work in a capacity where they have citizen contacts.

The generally accepted number is around 750,000.

Flip it around though. You will quickly see that the police are much more likely to be killed by a black person than they are to kill one (about 18 times more likely). The same goes for whites but the numbers are not quite as high.

I guess I should also point out that the police are 100% more likely to kill you by accident. People who kill police know that they are trying to kill a police officer deliberately. The only thing the police are posing a threat to is their freedom to commit more crimes.

[Mobuck]

Do cops think a real bad guy is going to let them walk right up to the vehicle window and THEN decide to shoot them?
I guess maybe they don't meet that many really bad guys.

[Panfisher]

Guses I must be boring. Every time I have been stopped has been short polite and to the point. If at night I turn on the interior light, roll down the window and sit there with my hands in the wheel. Every time I either knew before the officer came to the window why, usually couldn't disagree. Polite yes sir and no sir and have yet to actually receive a ticket. Only issue I ever had didn't involve a traffic stop, someone had driven through the fence around my field. I live on a rural gravel a mile outside a small town. Not an unusual happening, anyway the local city cop pulls up as I am sweating and bleeding while repairing the fence and began to give me the 3rd degree about how I should fess up to who ran through the fence because he was sure I really knew. I finally turned and said, something to the effect if I knew who ran through my effing fence they would be helping me fix it. He was still talking when I walked back to the tractor and drove away across the field. He was also known for being a jerk. Maybe I have just been lucky.

[357 Python]

Mobuck you would be surprised by how many bad guys really do wait until the cop gets to the window before they shoot him. Once they shoot at the cop they can then floor it and try to get away before the cop can recover if he hasn't been hit. I can't tell you how many videos of this very situation I saw when I was in the academy. I stopped at a hotel on my way to our academy that was only about 15 miles from where one of those videos took place. Fortunately the officer survived.

[shootniron]

Don't put your hands up...

[JohnKSa]

Reading some of the posts it sounds like advice you would give someone in some police state. Is it that bad in America that you do what instructed by police for fear of being shot an a trafic stop, its the fact that people seem to think thats acceptable i find disturbing. As for what to do it sounds like you had better follow the advice given.

It's not bad at all, in my experience.

My goal during interactions with police during traffic stop is to keep them as comfortable as possible.

• I'm polite.
• I tell them what I'm doing before I do it--especially when reaching for my wallet or the glove box.
• I pull as far off the road as I safely can so they don't have to stand in traffic.
• I turn on the dome light if it's dark outside.
• I don't do a lot of moving around while they're running the license plates so they don't have to wonder what kind of a surprise I'm getting ready for them.
• I take the keys out of the ignition and lay them on the dash so they can see them.
• I keep my hands on the wheel except when asked to retrieve something.

Being smart and careful doesn't mean that a person is terrified or genuinely concerned about being shot. It wasn't a terror of fire that prompted me to purchase a fire extinguisher for the kitchen. And when I bought it, it wasn't because I thought it was likely that the house was going to burn down in the near future. It's just a reasonable measure to take.

Do cops think a real bad guy is going to let them walk right up to the vehicle window and THEN decide to shoot them?

It definitely happens. Here are a couple of examples and you can find more. Some talk with the cop for awhile before starting to shoot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WiT8PSTWGc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPSUKuSOQ-o

[Mobuck]

"Mobuck you would be surprised by how many bad guys really do wait until the cop gets to the window before they shoot him. Once they shoot at the cop they can then floor it and try to get away before the cop can recover if he hasn't been hit. I can't tell you how many videos of this very situation I saw when I was in the academy."

We must be thinking about different levels of "badness". The level I'm thinking of simply puts 1/2 dozen rifle bullets through the cop's windshield while he's fiddling with his radio and adjusting his hatband. Then they just drive away like nothing happened.

[manta49]

It's not bad at all, in my experience.

My goal during interactions with police during traffic stop is to keep them as comfortable as possible.

I get what you are saying, if i am stopped i am polite and cooperative because the police are doing their job. But not because i have any fear of being shot it wouldent even enter my mind, i doint think i should put my hands somewhere or not reach for something. I caint recall any incident of someone being shot at a traffic stop here by the police, and in the past getting stopped two are three times a day by the police or army was not unusual. As i said its the fact that people even have to think that way and find it acceptable, that if i make a wrong move i might get shot i find strange.

[g.willikers]

I've never had a bad experience with police.
But I treat them with the same civilized respect I give everyone, if they're carrying a badge or not.
That seems to work just fine.

[Glenn Dee]

OK so first off I spent 25 years on the street as a uniformed policeman, plain clothed policeman, and as a detective. I've had a second job in security as well.

having retired some years ago I will say that police tactics and attitudes have changed.

What everyone should understand (including the police) is that the police interact with others for different reasons. Reasons like traffic reports, traffic stops, crime reports, various investigations, criminal suspects, routine conversation, and during routine things like eating, shopping and just walking down the street.

Most police contact is routine, uneventfull and forgetable. How a person reacts to the police mostly depends on the reason for the interaction... for example of your reporting a past crime there is no reason to show your hands..

[Don P]

My rule of thumb is, if the officer is going to see it then give him a heads up. I don't like surprises. If not, don't make an issue of it.

That is/was exactly my point to inform from the get go whether required or not. Just prevents a possible issue of "he has a gun SURPRISE" during the stop.
Just my opinion.

Being smart and careful doesn't mean that a person is terrified or genuinely concerned about being shot. I don't have a fire extinguisher in my kitchen because I'm terrified of fire. And when I bought it, it wasn't because I thought it was likely that the house will burn down in the near future. It's just a reasonable measure to take

Personal experience told to me by a LE doing business with a company that I worked for. I asked his thought on how one should proceed in a traffic stop while carrying.
He stated that during a traffic stop not being inform by the driver the he was CCW'ing when the driver reached for the glove box the butt of a gun became exposed. Thus resulting in the driver winding up face down in cuffs in the streets because of the surprise gun showing itself. Had the driver let him know this from the start the cuffs would have been prevented(no surprise)

[JohnKSa]

The level I'm thinking of simply puts 1/2 dozen rifle bullets through the cop's windshield while he's fiddling with his radio and adjusting his hatband. Then they just drive away like nothing happened.

There are videos where that happens too. Some will kill/try to kill as soon as the opportunity presents. Others will allow the cop to approach and even talk for awhile before they start shooting. So:

Do cops think a real bad guy is going to let them walk right up to the vehicle window and THEN decide to shoot them?

Yes they do. Why? Because sometimes it happens that way and they've seen videos of it going down like that. I provided two and you can certainly find more.

Are there bad guys who will not wait that long? Yes. You can find videos of that too--in fact here's one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu2i37rZ93M

As i said its the fact that people even have to think that way and find it acceptable, that if i make a wrong move i might get shot i find strange.

The bottom line is that any time you are interacting with armed law enforcement there is a chance of getting shot if you make a wrong move. The chances of that happening depend on what kind of wrong move you make and in what circumstances. In most cases the chances are very, very slim.

Do you "have to think that way"? No, and you don't have to make plans for what might happen if your house catches on fire either. But it might be a good idea to do both.

I'm also going to go out on a limb here and say that in your interactions with law enforcement you probably weren't armed. As Glen Dee's comments suggest, being armed doesn't necessarily make it more dangerous to interact with the police, but it does add some options for misunderstandings that might not otherwise arise. And that's also something that might be a good idea to keep in mind if you find yourself in that situation.

As far as it being "acceptable" or not, that's going to boil down to your opinion. I know people who don't like to lock their doors. They find it unacceptable to have to concern themselves with that detail and don't even like talking about it--presumably because it's uncomfortable to consider what could possibly happen if they continue to routinely leave their doors unlocked. I have a different opinion on the topic.

[madmo44mag]

In the words of Richard Pryor
“I am placing my hands on the steering wheel officer because I don’t want to be no accident”