|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
February 25, 2014, 02:05 PM | #26 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 24, 2008
Location: Orange, TX
Posts: 3,078
|
Anyone who isn't deathly afraid of what might emanate from a constitutional convention in today's times obviously hasn't had any exposure to the legislative process nor to the incredibly corrupt deals that are struck on our behalf each and every day - both in Congress and in our own state and municipal legislative bodies.
|
February 25, 2014, 02:54 PM | #27 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 24, 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 545
|
Quote:
|
|
February 25, 2014, 03:27 PM | #28 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 8, 2012
Posts: 2,556
|
Quote:
I doubt anything else would fare any better. Even my state which traditionally votes Blue nationally, has a Red state legislature. So anything my Senators would approve would be hard to ratify in the State House. |
|
February 25, 2014, 03:35 PM | #29 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 24, 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 545
|
Quote:
|
|
February 25, 2014, 06:48 PM | #30 | |
Member
Join Date: October 6, 2012
Posts: 39
|
Quote:
|
|
February 25, 2014, 11:21 PM | #31 | ||
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: June 29, 2000
Location: Rupert, Idaho
Posts: 9,660
|
Quote:
And I keep reading how this has never been done before, so we would have to abide by what is written within the Constitution itself... Yeah well, it has been done. There is the precedent of the first Con-Con. In that one, we threw out the Articles of Confederation and substituted what we now know as the Constitution. So yeah. Everything is on the table. Including if certain regions of this country even want to be associated with certain other regions. Do you seriously think that if (most) of the West, or even South, can get out from under the fist of the East, they won't attempt such a thing? I shudder to think what an actual Con-Con could bring. |
||
February 26, 2014, 09:07 AM | #32 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 24, 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 545
|
Quote:
|
|
February 26, 2014, 10:01 AM | #33 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 8, 2012
Posts: 2,556
|
Quote:
Is the (Region) going to allow the (Other Region) to leave? All those bases? Who get's ownership of the materiel? Does X% of Army tanks and helicopters, X% of Navy ships, Carriers, and aircraft, or X% of the gold in Fort Knox get split? The CIA assets, NSA feeds? If the Midwest or West Coast leaves, where does that leave Minot North Dakota. Who gets "the Football". The National Security questions alone for that sort of thing would be endless. Does my cousin Bobby a mile north of the border need a passport to come to my place a mile south of it for Christmas Dinner? Will people be able to come into West States from Mexico, then drive to East States on I-90? For that matter, who gets to use the name United States Of America? Ironically that could easily be the biggest deal breaker right there. Now I suppose there are a few issues that could be and maybe should be enacted as a constitutional amendment (which isn't to say they should be enacted at all, but if passed should be an amendment as opposed to a mere public law) however almost anything that would make it out of a Constitutional Convention seems just as likely to make it through the Congressional/States amendment process. |
|
February 26, 2014, 01:12 PM | #34 |
Staff
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 13,059
|
Jim, your concerns are very real. Furthermore, we can expect the 14th Amendment (or anything similar) to go out the window.
So, I wake up one morning, and I'm a citizen of the People's Free Zone of Southern Appalachia. Huh? These guys are at my door saying I owe taxes to the Grand Vizier? Who do I talk to? I'm not allowed to criticize anything in public? I didn't vote for...what do you mean I can't leave? I need a visa and a change of residence variance to move to...what the ☠☠☠☠☠ is the Enlightened Duchy of Tallahassee? I can scarcely imagine a more unpleasant scenario. Bonus question: who manages and coordinates national defense when China and Russia catch wind of this? Hey, at least I don't have to wait 10 months for a Form 4. So, there's that.
__________________
Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe |
February 26, 2014, 03:01 PM | #35 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 8, 2012
Posts: 2,556
|
Well that's kind of what I was getting at. But more that that too. It's a nightmare if it happens, but If I can figure that sort of thing out, the people we'd send to a Con-Con probably already have. And they're not going to give up their piece of the assets making up the United States pie they "paid their taxes" to buy. No one is letting Kentucky keep the gold, North Dakota to keep their silos, or Georgia or Washington their SSBN's, that sort of stuff.
|
February 26, 2014, 08:42 PM | #36 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 17, 2010
Location: Brooklyn, NYC
Posts: 610
|
Quote:
|
|
February 27, 2014, 12:43 AM | #37 |
Staff
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 9,471
|
Yes the federal government will have resource issues enforcing federal gun laws without the help of state authorities. But where there's a will, there's a way. The federal government can temporarily bring federal officers into a State from other States.
If the federal government wants to, it can bring in a bunch of FBI and U. S. Marshalls and ATF agents from other States and set up stings or otherwise "get serious" for a limited period. Anyone caught up in that sort of short term aggressive enforcement program is going to be very unhappy with how things turn out. The bottom line is that one can not sit back and relax thinking that since there aren't a lot of federal agents in Missouri he has nothing to worry about. The odds might be longer than if the State were also involved, but the possibility of getting caught still exists; and the stakes remain huge.
__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
February 27, 2014, 11:00 AM | #38 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: August 8, 2012
Posts: 2,556
|
In addition to the FBI, ATF, DEA, and other federal departments with a police "arm" don't forget Posse Comitatus isn't a complete ban. The Navy has what appears to be a nice little write-up here about the history of the act, and the exemptions to the act currently in play. Here is a brief history/theory from the cases born from Wounded Knee in 73, and changes since then.
An excerpt from the first link (A US government site, and thus public use I believe) says: Quote:
Quote:
Cooper V Aaron also suggests violating their oath to support and defend the Constitution is warring against the Constitution. I don't think it would be difficult to convince people warring against the Constitution is insurrection. Edited because I hit post instead of preview: Finally we have 10 U.S. Code § 311 which appears to be part of the Dick Act, AKA The Militia Act of 1903. Quote:
Of course, like our real nuclear option during the cold war, this is most likely mutually assured destruction. ABC/FOX/CBS/NBC running film of the Army rounding up men 17-45, and shipping them off to Alaska for their "militia training and indoctrination" isn't going to play well anywhere, but if the i's are dotted, and t's are crossed, a Lame Duck President isn't going to care very much about his re-election chances. There is no winner in this sort of stand-off. Nor does Missouri even WANT to win. I'm sure they like the sound of nullification, but they also like the sound of tacking on federal charges or transfers to federal custody in the right situations. Last edited by JimDandy; February 27, 2014 at 11:28 AM. |
|||
February 28, 2014, 02:34 PM | #39 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 30, 2010
Location: Missouri
Posts: 635
|
As some of you have pointed out, some provisions of this legislation probably won't survive a legal challenge in federal court.
What I love about this is that I live in a state with the guts to pass it in the first place. The pro-2A mindset that let to this bill has previously given us Missouri residents the freedom to carry literally anywhere except federal facilities, with almost no fear of legal trouble. All laws concerning concealed carry are covered by Missouri RS571, which states that if I carry into one of those normally restricted areas such as a hospital, courthouse, or even a school, all that can happen is that I must leave the premisses if asked. If I won't leave and cops are called, I can only be fined $65 (first offense). As Handgunlaw.us has stated, firearms restrictions have very little impact here. And, miraculously, there's no blood in the streets. Y'all ought to move here. All y'all.
__________________
SAF, ACLDN, IDPA, handgunlaw.us My AmazonSmile benefits SAF I'd rather be carried by 6 than caged by 12. 2020: It's pronounced twenty twenty. |
April 3, 2014, 04:53 PM | #40 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 30, 2010
Location: Missouri
Posts: 635
|
Update
MO house has now passed a similar bill that does not include jail time for enforcing federal gun laws.
http://www.ky3.com/news/local/mo-hou...48998_25311172
__________________
SAF, ACLDN, IDPA, handgunlaw.us My AmazonSmile benefits SAF I'd rather be carried by 6 than caged by 12. 2020: It's pronounced twenty twenty. |
|
|