Affordable Elephant Gun?

[FITASC]

When I lived back out West years ago, BPCR competition was fairly popular with folks shooting 45-70, 45-90, 50-110 rifles. Nice big chunks of lead, big clouds of white smoke, and the 200 yard steel gongs rand like church bells.

[stagpanther]

Now if you really want "afordable" his 375 Ruger chambered Mosberg Patriot was less than $400. He says it actually shoots better than a custom built Remington 700 in 375 H&H that cost him three times or more.

I have one of the Mossberg patriots in 375 ruger and can personally attest that it shoots very accurately and is beautifully made--easily worth twice the price IMHO. The cartridge itself is a very efficient design for the high level of power it brings to the table and fits conventional long action configurations. It also comes with a nice set of quick-acquire irons. My impression is that it was designed more as a handy Alaskan big bear dropper.

It can be loaded up to slightly more power than a 375 H&H--I'd recommend you get plenty of practice firing it before taking a shot in the field. The recoil force isn't so much like getting kicked by a mule as it is like getting hit by a fullback--if that makes any sense. A good hold and pull-in will mitigate the impact on your shoulder--it took me a couple of shots to realize it is more important to brace your body so that you don't get your head snapped back--I think whiplash is more of a risk than shoulder hurt. It's not a shoot all day kind of gun--but a dozen or so at a sitting is definitely reasonable for me.

[sixgunnin]

Thanks guys!

Where are generally in MT?

Up by Havre that's about 30 miles from Canada and half way across.

[Don Dayacetah]

One must assume you already have all your reloading gear
at hand, Six.

Because initial purchase cost of a decent reloading setup,
including supplies, will run you 1000$ or so, in order for you to start
"saving money" on reloads, FWIW.

[darkgael]

Because initial purchase cost of a decent reloading setup,
including supplies, will run you 1000$ or so, in order for you to start
"saving money" on reloads, FWIW

Nah. What are you considering decent? That kind of money will buy two decent reloading set ups.
One can get an O-press, dies, case tumbler, trimmer, scale, powder measure, 100 bullets, primers (Federal 215), and 50 new shells for half that.
.458 Win. Bullets - about $0.75 (cast/GC) to $1.30 each.
Cases - about a dollar each. Buy 50.
Press - Rockchucker about $150 (Save $ and buy the Lee O-press kit)
Dies - $30 to $75
Trim die - $13
Scale - $30
Tumbler - $50
Powder measure (optional if you have a scale) $50
Did i leave anything important out?
About $500.
Powder...about $30/lb. primers about $5/100.
Considering that factory 500 grain ammo for the .458 runs from about $5 a round to more than $7, at 100 rounds one breaks even .

[kraigwy]

I shoot cast out of my 375 H&H and the 460, but it shure as hell ain't 20 cents.

Should be a bit less then 20 cents around if you scrounge let. Using 4198 or 5744 in my 375, 416 Rigby and 458 Winchester it cost me about 17.5 cents.

I use range lead which I get for free, and load some pretty accurate mild shooting bullets.

For my 375 H&H, in the 70s I bought a bullet mold that used 2/8 in copper tubing for a jacket. Cut the copper tubing to length to fit in the mold, poor the lead and run it through a sizing die to make sure its perfectly round, weights 270 gr. You can push it as fast as any other 270 gr 375 with no problems and no bullet cost.

[handlerer2]

Wow. Impressive, Wyosmith. Now all we need is a recipe for slow burning smokeless powder, that can be made from ingredients found in any pantry.

[zxcvbob]

I really like that idea, using 3/8" OD copper tubing for a jacket. But don't you have to worry about the core shooting out and leaving the jacket stuck in the barrel? Does the little indentation at the cut line from the tubing cutter lock it in place?

[gwpercle]

W.D.M. Bell killed many an elephant with a 7x57 Mauser and 175 grain solids .

Like my grandpaw said...it ain't what you shoot them with it's where you shoot them.

[Dufus]

kraigwy wroteShould be a bit less then 20 cents around if you scrounge let. Using 4198 or 5744 in my 375, 416 Rigby and 458 Winchester it cost me about 17.5 cents.

I use 75 gr H4895 with a 500 gr cast bullet that give me close to 2000 fps.

Cost of powder with that load is $0.26. Primer = $0.04. Total is $0.30 per round.

Not exactly <$.20 per round.

Thought I would add that I am not complaining in the least. I enjoy shooting $0.30/round compared to shooting factory stuff at more than $2.00/round.

Those damned big bullets ain't cheap for those calibers.

[johnm1]

Centuriator,

I'll suggest an answer for the OP on why an elephant gun. I have mine because I can and I think it is cool.

Although the rifle was relatively cheap, shooting it will not be. Even though I can reload for it, it still won't be cheap. Practical? Nope. Fun to shoot? Probably not (haven't shot mine yet). But I'll shoot it and see if I can get a group out of it. It might take three range trips to get a single 10 shot group. And I'm looking at 350 grain projectiles that I could download for elk possibly.

In the end it will just be another rifle in my collection that the wife will have to sell after I'm dead. Along with a pump action 32-20, .351 Semi Auto Rifle, a bicycle gun (revolver) in 22 centerfire, and obsolete French service pistol with unobtainium ammunition, and a bunch of odd military rifles and pistols. At least there will be a conversation asking 'why in the heck did he have this' after I'm dead and buried.

Mine is a Mark X .458 Win Mag. And I never plan to hunt Africa.

[Red Devil]

Mossberg Patriot Laminate Marinecote Adjustable Rifle Sights in 375 Ruger
#27910

Mossberg Patriot in 375 Ruger- GunTalk TV

Red

[Road_Clam]

Here's my take on the op's post. He want's an impulse mega caliber purchase with no real practical need, but a "want". Op will purchase a used mega caliber, spend a LOT of money on ammo , shoot said rifle 5 times, go to ER and have shoulder re-located and promptly attempt to sell mega caliber rifle. Option B which serves a bit more flexibility is to buy a 45-70 in a Trapdoor or a single shot config. Shoot it, still have somewhat the same levels of harsh recoil and throwing a 400+ gr bullet but IF the op just is not happy with the rifle after some time the 45-70 will still have good resale value. Probably can't be said about the resale of a .400+ cal big game caliber. As always this is strictly just my opinion, it's your money and your want's. I shot a .458 Win mag at my gun club, and loved it for ONE shot. Loved it just as much giving it back to the owner. I had a firm shouldering, and still firing one shot felt like it dislocated my spine. I have a 1874 Sharps in 45-70 and shooting a 535 gr pp bullet with 82 gr of BP at 1360 fps is the max I can tolerate and still shoot proficiently over a string of say 10 shots.

[stagpanther]

Like the 45 70 the 375 ruger can be "down-loaded" to relatively mild deer-droppers. The reload components are not exotically expensive. The case design is great IMO.

[Jack O'Conner]

I'm thinking that a 12 gauge with rifled barrel would be quite lethal at distances out to about 75 yards or so. But instead of a lead bullet, a bronze bullet could be spun down on a lathe from bench stock and tempered to maximum hardness using a torch and quench tank.

Jack

[darkgael]

About wanting a heavy rifle for which one has no “need”. Need is a dangerous word in the wrong hands.
I purchased an “African” rifle some years ago - Ruger #1 Tropical in .416 Rigby. I still have it. I still shoot it and have yet to need a trip to the Emergency Room.
I saw the gun. Six hundred bucks. Harry Selby’s cartridge. I had to have it.
There is a learning curve for these guns, mostly involving how to hold the thing so that it doesn’t hurt you. There is an optimal way to hold heavy kickers.
The other significant issue has already been mentioned....factory ammo is VERY expensive. Factory loads run from five dollars per shot to more than $10.

[the possum]

The other significant issue has already been mentioned....factory ammo is VERY expensive. Factory loads run from five dollars per shot to more than $10.

That's why I've decided if I ever wanna get a huge boomer to play with, I'm gonna skip past these exotic calibers and just get a .50 BMG. Heck, I've bought surplus .50 BMG for $1.30 per round (right at $1.50 delivered to my door.)

[Nunya53]

Originally Posted by Road_Clam

Option B which serves a bit more flexibility is to buy a 45-70 in a Trapdoor or a single shot config.

Or option C...I inherited a Gibbs Lee Enfield rechambered for 45-70 from my Dad. It is a little jinky in the magazine department, but I haven't shot it in a few years. Not sure I would want to put my life on it just yet, but I do know it doesn't kick that bad.

Jerry

[Ben Dover]

I doubt any man killed more elephant than W.D.M. "Karamojo" Bell.

He used a 6.5X55 Swede and a 7X57 Mauser.

[Jim Watson]

6.5 Mannlicher, not Swede, I believe. I don't know if it were a 6.5 rimmed (.256 in British catalogues, same as Dutch issue) or rimless in the Schoenauer magazine. Reportedly dropped it because of cheap Austrian ammo.

.275 Rigby, British manufacture 7x57, shot the most elephants with six or so of these.

.318 Westley Richards in later years.

He made some use of an express rifle, although not a huge one; maybe a .450-400.

Late in life he said that the then-new .308 Winchester would do very well on elephants with a good bullet.

[Ben Dover]

You're right! 6.5X54R

But if what I've read is correct, the 7X57 killed the most.

[Jim Watson]

Yes the .275 was his main rifle.
I once saw one of his several Rigbys - one source said he had six - at a gun show.
It was accompanied by a letter from Bell, concerned that Rigby's adoption of the 140 gr semi-spitzer might be accompanied by a change in rifling twist preventing the use of the old reliable 175 gr roundnose. (I don't think it was.)

[darkgael]

A digression....
There is a story about Bell and his .275 and his marksmanship. Evidently, he had purchased at one point a lot of ammo with which he was dissatisfied. He was using it up by wingshooting water birds on a river. He was approached by a local business man who had been watching him shoot. The fellow wanted to buy Bell’s very accurate shotgun.

[Jim Watson]

Another story, he had taken delivery of a new rifle at his hotel just before departing to hunt. Unwilling to take out an untried gun, he opened the window and smashed selected bricks out of a chimney down the street. Satisfied the sights were properly regulated from the maker, he cased the rifle and checked out.

[44 AMP]

But if what I've read is correct, the 7X57 killed the most.

I think saying it that way leaves out the most important part of the fact. It wasn't the 7x57 that killed the most, it was Bell, using a 7x57.

Give you, me, or the guy down street the finest 7x57 rifle and ammo, drop us in Africa, during Bell's era, and see how many elephants we can down, at the virtual point blank ranges Bell often shot from, before one of the elephants turns us into goo...

You don't win a foot race because you wear the best running shoes, you win (if you do) because you are the fastest runner.