1903 feed issue

[Rblevin1]

I recently picked up a sporterized 03 in 35 whelen. If I load five rounds it will cycle the first round but never wants to pick up the 2nd or 4th round( both on the same side in the magazine) , any ideas on fixing this? When I say pick up I mean the round doesn't get held in the extractor. Sorry if I'm not making sense

[Mobuck]

My first suggestion would be to determine if the magazine follower and/or spring is reversed.

[T. O'Heir]

"...will cycle the first round but never..." Usually indicates a mag spring issue.
"...never wants to pick up the 2nd or 4th round..." But the 3rd feeds just fine? Suggests there's a burr somewhere in the mag well. Possibly something on the follower. Just a WHAG though.

[Rblevin1]

Yes it will feed the 3rd and 5th with out problems. It will catch the 2nd And 4th but the case rim won't go in the extractor like it should. I'll try to take some pics when I get home and see if I can figure out how to post them. Thanks

[Paul B.]

I believe I would take a close look at the feed rail on the side that the failure occurs. Might be a burr but as the only difference between the .30-06 and .35 Whelen is the neck size, I'm not sure just what might be the problem. Kind of hard to tell when the rifle isn't on hand to inspect.
Paul B.

[Rblevin1]

Looking at it again today, seems that when it is pushing the 2nd round it pushes foward then starts to turn to the right causing it to hit the barrel end and not go into the chamber. The rounds that do not want to feed are on the left side of the magazine.

[supercub99]

This is a somewhat common problem in these, both original and in sportered configurations.
The problems are caused by a number or combination of the following and all should be checked. Clues that dictate are what have you done if anything to the rifle? If it's new to you, then you are inheriting someone elses problem and you'll need to check a number of things.

First, check the fit of the triggerguard/magazine to the receiver itself. There should be approximately 1/16th of on inch gap between them when the trigger guard is torqued down. Anything more and you will have a gap that the mag follower will snag in, usually one side or a corner. Too little and you will have contact and that's not good.
To correct any of the problems above, add shims usually under the front screw if no gap, remove tiny amounts of wood in the same area to close up the gap. Wood shrinks over time and area at the front of the trigger guard digs into the wood and changes the dimension.

Second, Many sporters used milled followers vs the later 1903A3 stamped type. They are interchangeable but as the military found, the stamped were more reliable and didn't cause the problem you are having to a large deg. The shape and weight in addition to other things gave them the edge. Many 1903's have the milled and you can change that out and see if that takes care of it.

Third, Sometimes it's simply a fit issue with a squeezed mag fit in a stock, out of spec a little, or some other thing that makes it a bit tight. You can file corners on the follower and smooth those issue out. This was done by armorers in the military all the time, it wasn't just slap it in and work.

Fourth, The mag spring is the last problem. They get out of whack sometimes and need to be replaced. They are inexpensive as are the followers so if you find everything else checks out, then order one of each and change them.

Just to give you an example of WHAT you can run into:

I bought a sporter 03 that a platoon had made up for their retiring colonel. They did a pretty decent job on a stock and a nice job bluing and putting a side mount scope on it. It fed and function nicely. When I took it apart however, I found a brass glob sweated onto the back bottom of the follower. It stuck down 3/16 ths of an inch but still allowed a full mag. I thought what the "heck" and put in a regular on. It would not feed. Closer inspection found they had inlet the trigger guard a hair too far back and it would hang up a follower. They figured they couldn't move it without messing the stock up so they influence the follower with the brass glob. It worked but this is what you inherit sometimes and we wonder why things don't work....

Hope this give you a clue.

[HiBC]

A couple more things to look at:
Due to controlled round feed,the cartridge slips up under the extractor as it is picked up from the mag box.
Its a little easier for that to happen with the rounds coming up from the left rail,and a little more difficult on the right.Its an angle thing as the bullets are more central.The cartridge is tipped right or left,but the extractor hook is on the right.
So some very subtle tuning of the extractor hook or a slight "entry" blend on the rim of the bolt face might make it easier for the case head to rise up.I'mtalking a .003 to .005 radius on what might be a sharp corner.Is the bolt face smooth?
Another idea,I know its a 35,but make 5 dummy 30-06 rounds and try them.
It might be a bullet ogive interference thing. (The cone breech OUGHT to be forgiving,though.
Sometimes folks do crazy things unscrewing barrels. Its not that hard to twist the rails if you approach it wrong.
Swapping followers and springs will do no harm.
But monkeying with the rails? I'd advise against it.The Whelen and the 30-06 are identical as far as the rails are concerned.The neck and bullet do not contact the rails.
Just a little steel off and your rifle will spew rounds out the top.
Inking the rounds with a sharpie might reveal something.
You might try taking the inletting/stock out of the picture. Does the barreled action feed? Sometimes bedding gets messed up a bit.

[supercub99]

HiBC, good point about the extractor. You can usually check that by taking the bolt out and slipping a cartridge onto the face. If it goes easily, it's fine if not...needs a little stoning. Typically if you can load one, then that's not the cause though.

[Rblevin1]

30-06 dummies are doing the same thing. I tired it again with the barreled action- same deal. The on/off lever on the side is normally in the on position, I tired it in the off position and if the rounds were far enough forward in the magazine they would cycle sometimes... But not all, or the case head would be too far back in the magazine for the bolt head to catch at all. 1903s are pretty new to me, I've always worked on/ built off Mauser 98s, so I'm not sure what to do next. I'd like to use this rifle for black bear hunting so getting it reliable is my biggest goal. Thanks

[HiBC]

Ok. Realize,its pretty tough to give you answers without having a rifle to lookat,and I still might get stumped!

The Springfield is reliable. Yours has been rebarreled.The 35 Whelen SHOULD work with no issues.
Once again,I'd leave the rails alone.
Given what you have tried,I suggest looking at the extractor,and maybe if the cone breech was done right.
It ought to work!!

[supercub99]

The on off switch on the side is for mag cut off. What that means/does is make the rifle feed from the mag or NOT. When it's in the on position, you snap a single round into the mag and run the bolt. The bolt is not supposed to go all the way back to pick up another round. When it's in the off position it will cycle all the way back and pick a round out of the mag each time till the mag is empty. This was a military thing designed to keep the soldiers from wasting ammo when they didn't need to. In practice and while shooting singles, they always had a full mag when needed. Some switches had a dark side and a shiny side. The shiny side was so an instructor could look down the line and spot the ones who were running from the mag. In simple turns, a single shot or a 5 round mag.

[James K]

With the magazine "OFF", the bolt will not come back far enough to pick up a round from the magazine, but a single round can be loaded directly into the chamber (not into the magazine) and the bolt closed. The idea was to allow the soldier to fire single shots while keeping a full magazine in reserve if the enemy staged a mass attack or a cavalry charge.

Not all armies agreed with the idea; the British adopted a different method of doing the same thing, but the Germans used the magazine at all times.

Jim

[4V50 Gary]

If there is a ramp, it may have to be relieved so the bullet won't be directed so far to the right.