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Old March 6, 2006, 07:41 PM   #1
Dennis2
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Urban Survival?

I'm just curious? All you gung ho cowboys seem to live in the "burbs" and are ready to declare war, if need be?

Whom on this forum lives with the MS-13, Bloods, Crips, etc.in their neighborhood like I do? Would you brave souls bet your hand gun against a gang hundreds strong and well armed, with your family, at a fixed address you live at? Charles Bronson in Hollywood movies would not go against odds like that!

MOVE OUT you say? Great, you have the money and resources to relocate to another area? Hell NO! It's difficult to even pay the utility bills, much less finding safety...

Shall we discuss the preceeding?
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Old March 6, 2006, 08:10 PM   #2
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Sorry, but I'm not in the mood to discuss this with a whiney homeboy from the "HOOD". Not everyone is made of money on this board, but I'd venture to say that the vast majority would do what ever it took to get their family and themselves to a safe location.. Take the chip off your shoulder !

Board moderator, if you concider this a personal attack, or somehow in TFL violation, feel free to block my access as you see fit.
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Old March 6, 2006, 08:15 PM   #3
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I understand what you're saying...don't have any answers. I live in Nash., Tn. and the MS-13 has showed its ugly face here. Not good on many levels. The cops don't know what to do or say. ACLU is against "open season" and we know even with best of circumstances self defense is an expensive proposition. Still, even considering gangs, you/we've got to be ready to defend. Its like the "rock and a hard place"...not good.
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Old March 6, 2006, 08:25 PM   #4
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Id rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
i dont care who it is if they attack me they WILL die. if they have friends that just puts me in a "target rich enviorment". my general theory is kill a few and the others will be scared of you, because almost no one really wants to die. Put thier heads on pikes in your front yard and that will scare them away (metaphoricaly). I bet ive got more ammo then they do people. and have you ever seen one of thoses "Gangstas" shoot? holding a gun sideways dosent work to well.
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Old March 6, 2006, 09:03 PM   #5
Dave R
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Just thinking of this from an economic standpoint...

If you're in an urban area, your costs for rent, utils, etc. are probably higher than they would be if you were in a suburban or rural area. The question is, can you get a job in a rural area? If you can, costs are probably lower.
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Old March 6, 2006, 09:05 PM   #6
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urban survival

I would get my bootie to school, learn a trade, get a degree and start earning enough money to move up.
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Old March 6, 2006, 09:26 PM   #7
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dennis, . . . it may not work for you, . . . but just short of 30 years ago, . . . I made the "urban" move. No, . . . the bloods and crips weren't there, . . . but there were enough unorganized bg's there to make one careful.

Anyway, . . . my basic tactic was to more or less let everyone around know that I was a gun nut, . . . I cleaned em on the front porch for everyone to see.

I invited my neighbors to go to the shooting club with me.

Long and short, . . . they burgled the neighborhood, . . . but left me alone. Was it divine intervention, . . . or a conscious decision on their part to leave that goofy hillbilly gun happy sailor alone? Who knows!

May God bless,
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Old March 6, 2006, 09:43 PM   #8
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MS-13 has a solid foothold in at least 33 states, and I wouldn't sell their street tactics short as gangsta wannabes. Their roots stem from military rebels in El Salvador.

Also, don't think that because you live in Smallville, USA, you're safe. MS-13, along with Crips, Bloods, and a host of others are moving their activities to smaller cities that don't have the personnel or resources to deal with them.

MS-13 and the Crips (along with most other gangs) are deadly enemies, and we can only hope that they kill each other off.
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Old March 6, 2006, 10:40 PM   #9
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Its hard to say, the mighty USA is become infested with urban gangs and the Govt. dosent seem too interesed in putting a stop to it. City streets arent safe anymore and there really arent a whole lot of places left to go.

WTSHTF youll be left defending yourself against mutiple armed enemys in an urban enviroment, this means your'll likely die. IMO your best bet it to bug out. When it all goes down arm up, get in your car and leave. Have a BOB, supplies and ammo in the car and be ready to leave with your family. When worst comes to worst the last place you want to be is in a gang infested urban inviroment. Anywhere is better than that.

Last edited by gac009; March 7, 2006 at 02:55 AM.
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Old March 6, 2006, 10:42 PM   #10
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Where do I start?

OK, there's lots tpo say about the posts on this thread. Capt. Charlie: Well said. Anyone who believes "The Shield" version of MS-13 is way off base. They are a lot more sophisticated than you think. I work with all immigrants. The guys who are the kithcen staff at the restaurant three doors down are all MS-13. Behind my buisness they tag the walls of the alley with gang signs and live all around our shoopping center. They work menial jobs by day and work gang business at night. Soime of the things they do are as simple as walk up to you and ask for a couple of bucks. When you see one or two, there are seven or eight you don't. They never do anytjhing in small groups. Always large groups. One I worked with told me anyone who kills someone in Honduras, Guatamala, or El Salvador comes here with the help of coyotes (paid for). they have a very high rosensity for violence. Move you say? Rural America not necessarily known for great job opportunities. And Dwight--you polish guns on your porch in my area and your house will be the first to get robbed. As soon as your not home for a while your house is a target because you have guns! So be careful. Everyone wants guns. Dogs you say? Pit Bulls? Rottweilers? Easy. Nice peice of meat marinated with rat poison thrown through the window about 10 minutes after you leavbe for work. Got all the time in the world to wait for that dog to die, then eight guys are working on your safe, while the rest load a landscaping truck with your stuff.
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Old March 6, 2006, 10:48 PM   #11
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Oh, one more thing...

As far as gang banger shooting skills, a guy I work with form El Salvador learned to shoot in the army down in Salvador. Most gang banger higher ups served in the army or in the paramilitaries, and probably have more experence than most guys on this site. I've worked for 10 years with a guy from Honduras who tells how in his town if you have a nice watch they will chop off your hand to get the watch. They take your hand and put in under their hat. the blood runs down and stains their shirt. That way other people know who the most dangerous guys are.
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Old March 7, 2006, 05:51 AM   #12
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Dennis, Move. You cannot fight a gang of people who want you dead. They will get you while you sleep. in your home (driveby), at the grocery store, ect. You cannot stop someone from killing you if they really want you dead. So the very smartest thing to do, if you love your family, is move. When your tax return check comes in move. Otherwise save some money and move.

Bender711, I saw a story about a watch repair business owner who shot and killed a wouldbe robber that was a gang member. The word got out that this gang was out to get him. They tried again with 4 gang members and the shop owner killed 2 or 3 of them. The shop owner knew that the next attack would be bigger and moved. Bully defense (fight back and they will stop) simply doesn't work with gangs. Post their friends head on a stake in your yard and they won't rest until you and your family are dead.

I know you guys think that your skills are greater, your weapons better, ect. That won't help you when a gang banger shoots you from the grassy knoll across the street. Get out while you and yours are healthy, that is you duty as a man and father.
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Old March 7, 2006, 05:58 AM   #13
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BTW I saw a news reort on MS-13 and they employ swat like tactics with overwhelming force. Groups armed with high powered semi auto rifles (ak-47's usually) using covering type tactics sweep homes of robbery victims just as a swat team would. Very difficult to deal with multiple men armed with weapons capable of penetrating several walls who are using tactics which keep a muzzel covering the movement of other members. MOVE
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Old March 7, 2006, 06:34 AM   #14
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please run away! pack up and move to a little moutain town with a population of 153. they will be there soon enough, but now your kids have to live with it. stand your ground - you pay the rent. if you don't like it, change it. the problem will on grow with the run away method!
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Old March 7, 2006, 07:19 AM   #15
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Fireball, With advice like that you should include getting large life insurance policies for any family that survives and graveyard plots. You are giving fatal advice. Study gangs a bit and you will see that they will get you. Unless you have eyes in the back of your head and secret service members to search the grassy knoll everyday for that sniper LOL. The smart thing to do is run. It doesn't make you a coward but smart.
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Old March 7, 2006, 08:28 AM   #16
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Dennis2 where do you live?
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Old March 7, 2006, 08:30 AM   #17
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Step 1: Two to the chest, 1 to the head.
Step 2: Repeat step 1 as needed.
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Old March 7, 2006, 08:48 AM   #18
GUNSMOKE45441
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Where is everyone going when there's no place left to run???
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Old March 7, 2006, 09:01 AM   #19
LICCW
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Easier said than done

It is easier to say move than to do it. It takes money to move, get a new job, etc. Sometimes the problems you know are better than the unknown problems you will have. Threegun is right. You will not win against a gang. They live for that s**t. You challenge them and a whole slew of dudes will step up to make a name fo themselves in the gang culture. Armed defense against a gang is only a last resort, ie: your walking to your car and they accost you, you have no choice but to shoot to try to save your life. In my area a working man was coming home from work walked up to his front door and was surprised and shot to death by a group whose initiation right was to tke an unsuspecting life to prove how hard they were. It took about two years to funally catch a couple of them, but if i'm not mistaken, they didn't catch all. Does it matter though? the guy they shot is still dead. Acting like two to the chest is going to solve all your poblems with gangs is just silly.
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Old March 7, 2006, 09:02 AM   #20
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GUNSMOKE45441 good question.
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Old March 7, 2006, 09:50 AM   #21
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The best weapon you have against gangs is your mind. Gangs are made up of different individuals, who join for many different reasons. Some are violent career criminals, some are wannabes, and same join for protection.

Gangs get their money from crime, mostly drugs, but also theft. If you want to stay clear of a gang, don't mess with their drug dealing, don't advertise you have something they would want to steal, and don't publically insult them.

I have heard many people say that they know someone in a gang and they therefore feel somewhat safe, because they believe that they have a "relationship' with that gang member or are even "friends" with them. Don't count on it, I've known a lot of gang members over the years. Many would smile and be quite friendly to me. But I knew that most would not hesitate, if I met them on the street, if I had something they wanted, to do whatever it took to get it, including taking my life.

Gangs are dangerous, treat them with respect, as you would a wild animal. Most are emotionally immature and a lot are also socio-paths, oops sorry the proper term now a days is anti-social personality disorder.

Personally I treat gangs like I would a pack of wolves or a bear in the woods. I try to stear clear. I try to stay aware of what is going on around me. I try not to draw undue attention to myself. I treat them with the respect that I give to everyone else. I have a plan to protect myself and my family. I practise. I realize that if I must resort to the use of lethal force, then a lot has already gone wrong.

Don't plan on being Rambo, you are not Rambo, not even Rambo is Rambo. If you have a family, taking care of them comes first. Your family is more important than money or your pride. Do whatever is necessary to take care of your family, including moving if it is prudent.

Gangs can be defeated, but not by shooting it out with them. You may win a battle or two, but you will lose in the end. If it ever came down to shooting it out with a member or members of a local gang and you survive, don't hang around, move.

Defeating gangs comes from building a strong local community, from working with authorities - building a realtionship between the police and the local community, and from working to support and build strong famiies. As long as a gang is a natural part of a community it cannot be rooted out, when it is an alien presence in a community it can be removed like a cancer.

Individual gangs can go through explosive growth cycles - as has MS 13. But when that happens inevitably there is a slowing and a dilution of the initial leadership and energy. From my very limited knowledge about Ms 13 it appears that many of it's original leaders had military experience and training - but I doubt that the vast majority of the gangs new recruits have the same or similar experience, and I doubt that the gang in general has the organzation to effectively train its members.

Stay safe.
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Old March 7, 2006, 10:47 AM   #22
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MS13 here in VA

There are some MS13 gangs operating here in VA. But they are armed with machetes mainly. Very little or no incidents of shoot outs with police and other civilians.

However, other gang members and past gang members, drug dealers etc. routinely get into machete / hand chopping incidents with MS13 gang members here. (They are in a neighboring town.)

There have also been incidents of drug deals gone bad that turn into robbery / homocides.

But for the typically urban gun owner who follows the rules - no incidents to report of. So pretty safe in this area.

Take precautions / use good judgement in where you hang out, who you hang out with. You will be OK.
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Old March 7, 2006, 12:14 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis2
Urban Survival?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm just curious? All you gung ho cowboys seem to live in the "burbs" and are ready to declare war, if need be?

Whom on this forum lives with the MS-13, Bloods, Crips, etc.in their neighborhood like I do? Would you brave souls bet your hand gun against a gang hundreds strong and well armed, with your family, at a fixed address you live at? Charles Bronson in Hollywood movies would not go against odds like that!

MOVE OUT you say? Great, you have the money and resources to relocate to another area? Hell NO! It's difficult to even pay the utility bills, much less finding safety...

Shall we discuss the preceeding?
Why are asking all us gung-ho cowboys what to do?

Get off the internet, sell your computer, work overtime and get out of there. Re-read CraigJS's post.

Why would you think a bunch of gung-ho cowboys want to discuss anything with you?
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Old March 7, 2006, 01:01 PM   #24
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I grew up in a poor area in Philly and for most of my life I lived in an urban setting. I have see and done more bad things at 16 than most men have in their lifetime. My father, due to economics was stuck and could not move out, but he took every opportunity to get us out of the city, to go camping, fishing, and hunting. I made a VOW to him that I would get out of the city. TRY as hard as you can to get out. Most of the large cities in America a pits of hopelessness and crime, that is getting increasingly worse. How can you raise a family there??? Your right you cannot fight the gangs.

You could easily find an apartment in a suburb with a lower crime rate just outside of where you live, or you try to buy a "fixer-upper" house. I rather live in a shack in the burbs then a mansion in a bad city neighborhood. Buying a house is expensive now, but overall it is sometimes cheaper to live and work in the burb vs living and working in a city. There is still crime in the suburbs, but it is a lot less. I live only 30 miles away from Philly. I go to sleep and hear nothing but crickets and wind, instead of gunshots and yelling (I actually couldn't sleep for a month when I moved, it was too quiet). I can actually use the local public school system and my kids actually learn and not worry as much about getting killed (like I did). Cops around here actually show up in less than 5 minutes if you call 911, even for minor stuff.

Don't be quick to judge the "country boys" some rural residents are poorer than poorest people in the city. There is less jobs in the deep "boonies". There is also more corruption and in some rural areas, big meth problems.
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Old March 7, 2006, 01:31 PM   #25
Capt. Charlie
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Quote:
Where is everyone going when there's no place left to run??
While Dennis' post is a little harsh, I suspect it's out of the frustration of being backed into a corner with no (perceived) escape.

Neighborhood deterioration and a rise in crime is something that hundreds of thousands of people face every year. It's a very real problem with a very real relevance here.

I faced the same problem 15 yrs. ago, and my sister is still facing it. I'm fortunate; my income was such that I could afford to move into a better neighborhood, but my sister, even with my help, isn't. Gunfire is a daily occurrence in her neighborhood, and I worry every day. I have to be very careful about visiting her since I'm well known as a cop. My appearance there could be interpreted as her being a snitch, and she could end up having that gunfire directed at her, or have a Molotov cocktail thrown through her window at 4 am .

I'm frustrated as well, and while I restrain my anger here, it resides within me, none the less.

What's the answer for someone that can't move? That's what we're here to discuss .
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