Has anyone else seen anything on this?

jimpeel · February 22, 2013, 03:05 AM

My BS meter is at about half staff on this one.

SOURCE

This author states that the VA is sending out letters to vets telling them that if the VA deems them to be physically or mentally incompetent that they will be disallowed the ownership of firearms.

As the article notes:

Quote:

In every state in the United States no one can be declared incompetent to administer their own affairs without due process of law and that usually requires a judicial hearing with evidence being offered to prove to a judge that the person is indeed incompetent."

I was simply wondering if anyone else has seen anything about this; seen one of these letters; or knows anyone who has received one.

So far, this sounds like patriot mythology.

**Aguila Blanca** · February 22, 2013, 06:17 AM

I use the VA (alleged) healthcare system and I have not received such a letter.

However, I have sufficient concerns about the VA and guns that I don't advertise the fact that I own them to my doctor there.

thallub · February 22, 2013, 07:58 AM

Yep, its trash. Some folks would rather climb a slick utility pole and lie than stand on the ground and tell the truth.

**Tom Servo** · February 22, 2013, 08:25 AM

The site fails to provide the alleged letter or any sort of concrete source. I've got plenty of friends and colleagues who are vets, and none of them has mentioned this.

CowTowner · February 22, 2013, 08:37 AM

The page linked to in the OP has a link at the bottom which takes you to www.redflagnews.com
They show what appears to be a letter which backs this up.
This link goes to the red flag site: http://redflagnews.com/headlines/dis...-or-ammunition

The letter can be viewed by clicking on the documents at the bottom of that page. They are in correct page order left to right.

seabee78 · February 22, 2013, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thallub

Yep, its trash. Some folks would rather climb a slick utility pole and lie than stand on the ground and tell the truth.

To protect my rights and benefits for being a veteran and a legal gun owner, I would do the same thing.
It doesn't seem fair that they (doctors in general) have the right to ask us to disclose weather or not we have guns in or homes. Like that has any bearing on the care or even the quality of care he/she is ethically bound to provide.
Maybe i am wrong. But that seems to be the case.
Mommy, look at all the sheeps!:screwy::what:

willhud · February 22, 2013, 10:36 AM

Not sure how long it will be posted there, but I found the link on the Drudge report.

REPORT: Feds send letters to vets taking away gun rights... It's in the first column, second article.

http://www.drudgereport.com/

Which links to here, and subsequently to what was already posted from redflagnews.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013...e-of-firearms/

I find this VERY hard to believe. Would love to see posts from individuals who have received the letter, not that I would wish it on them.

hogdogs · February 22, 2013, 12:06 PM

I asked my ol' veteran father to look into this and one of his mil blogs had this to say about it...
http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=34265

Brent

thallub · February 22, 2013, 02:50 PM

There are numerous rumors claiming the VA has outlawed gun ownership, ad nauseum. There are rumors that VA doctors ask questions about gun ownership.

i'm an Army retiree and disabled vet rated at 80 percent. None of this stuff has ever happened to me or any other disabled vet i know.

**44 AMP** · February 22, 2013, 03:03 PM

It may not have happened to you, or anyone you know, but something similar has happened to one vet I know.

Not that the VA was stupid enough to put it in a letter or anything traceable...

This happened about a decade ago (its not a new thing), the vet, with some medical probems, and some mental issues (not ajudicated inciompetent, PTSD or danger to self/others), was told by his doctors at the VA that he had to get rid of any guns in his house, or they would no longer treat him.

He believed them, and sold his two guns. I know the story because I bought one of them.

Was it right? No. Was it legal? No. Was it ethical? No. Was it national policy? No. But it did happen. And I bet, if we could hear from ALL the vets (including those passed on) I think we would find that the case I know about wasn't the only one.

How many guys over the many years, in desperate need of medical treatment from the VA have done whatever they were told to do, and didn't/couldn't make a public issue about it? I only know one (and he passed away two years ago), but I believe it was not a completely isolated incident.

**Aguila Blanca** · February 23, 2013, 11:04 AM

I think the problem is that NOT all veterans whio use the VA (alleged) healthcare system are being notified. As I look into this, it appears that those of us who go there for annual physicals and flu shots aren't being singled out, but those who may have the misfortune to be exposed to the VA's mental health practitioners are at risk.

I do recall that, even though I go in every six months for blood work and a physical, the doctor does ask some seemingly innocuous questions about how things are going at home, any serious concerns, any instances of feeling depressed, yada yada.

I'm coming to realize that those seemingly innocuous questions could have serious consequences down the road. Fortunately, my married life is happy and stable so I don't have to lie in response to those questions. Should my situation change, I would have no qualms about continuing the provide the same answers.

thallub · February 23, 2013, 02:55 PM

Its about veterans who are deemed "incompetent" to manage their own affairs. When a veteran is unable to manage his own affairs a guardian is appointed. Many years ago tens of thousands of "incompetent" veterans were reported to FBI NICS. VA Director Shinseki says this reporting has been stopped.

We keep hearing these horror stories that are presented without any backup information on specific cases. If large numbers of veterans were having their Second Amendment rights taken away without due process the veterans organizations would be all over it. The fact that the veterans organizations are not all over this tells me its not factual.

This by a veterans advocate:

Quote:

If anyone knows ANY VETERAN who has been adjudicated as incompetant to handle his fiduciary stuff, but who isn’t absolytely BAT**** crazy (and/or) who hasn’t threatened to kill themselves or others, than contact us. Seriously. I looked for months and months, and never found one. I’d find someone who was almost perfect, and then we’d find out how he threatened to kill his mom or himself. If you know an actual person that shouldn’t have had this happen, JUST CONTACT US.

http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=34265

BGutzman · February 23, 2013, 02:56 PM

I use the VA and have seen nothing on it.

Mac Sidewinder · February 23, 2013, 08:36 PM

I retired after 22 years and I have not heard or seen a letter of this type yet. But then again, I don't use the VA medical system, I use Tricare and my local civilian doctors.

Mac

lamarw · February 24, 2013, 09:50 PM

I read this was occuring to a certain categorys of Vets by the VA. I read the documents supposedly being sent to these veterans.

After reading the letter with its attachements, I would say if a person is disabled to the point they can not manange the receipt of their disability check then maybe they should not be handling or have possession of a firearm or even be driving for that matter. The supposed letter seems to indicate these veterans required a court appointed guardianship to handle their financial matters.

Here is a link to another article discussing this issue: http://www.bob-owens.com/2013/02/don...28Bob+Owens%29

It is sad, but the truth is there are people out there including those who have made extreme sacrifices to their country who should not be permitted to have a firearm since they are a danger to others and themself.

I have to assume this is happening only in extreme cases.

ScottRiqui · February 24, 2013, 09:53 PM

I saw an online article written by a lawyer which includes PDF/JPG versions of the VA letter in question, although I can't deny the possibility that he's being hoodwinked as well.

Tom68 · February 26, 2013, 05:43 PM

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editor...gun-rights.htm

it's on the front page of Investor's Business Daily Editorials today. Not that proliferation of a claim increases its validity, but I normally trust IDB to not re-hash unfounded claims.

A bit of careful reading may be in order here; the article quotes the Brady Act of 1993:
"The VA states on its Fiduciary Program website that, according to the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act, signed into law in 1993, being determined as unable to manage your benefits prevents you from owning and possessing a firearm or ammunition."

as a previous poster stated, anyone who can't manage a check sent by the VA has some real problems. That being said, someone at the VA needs to get out in front of this story, or I can foresee lots of vets who really need help avoiding the VA at all costs just to avoid having their constitutional rights taken from them---whether that fear is warranted or not.

thallub · February 26, 2013, 06:26 PM

Quote:

That being said, someone at the VA needs to get out in front of this story,

General Shinseki, the Sec'y of Veterans Affairs, says the VA is no longer giving the names of "incompetent" veterans to the FBI NICS. Thats good enough for this disabled veteran.

ScottRiqui · February 26, 2013, 06:40 PM

I guess it depends on what it takes to be considered "incompetent" by the VA, but isn't that the sort of information we would *want* to have available in the NICS database?

thallub · February 26, 2013, 07:57 PM

Quote:

I guess it depends on what it takes to be considered "incompetent" by the VA, but isn't that the sort of information we would *want* to have available in the NICS database?

i agree.

Maybe Shinseki did that to ease veterans fears about going to the VA for treatment. Veterans are being discouraged from seeking help from the VA. There's all kinds of misinformation out there. i've heard it from two young veterans. "(Name of online conspiracy nutcase) said stay from the VA or they will take my guns."

BTW:

Many fringe sites flatly tell vets to stay away from the VA or their guns will be taken, especially if they have PTSD. Because of distortions of the truth, exaggerations and outright lies about the VA reporting large numbers of vets to FBI NICS: Tens of thousands of veterans are refusing to seek treatment at the VA.

i belong to three veterans organizations. None of those organizarions are making a fuss over this issue.

February 22, 2013, 08:25 AM	#4
Tom Servo Staff Join Date: September 27, 2008 Location: Foothills of the Appalachians Posts: 13,059	The site fails to provide the alleged letter or any sort of concrete source. I've got plenty of friends and colleagues who are vets, and none of them has mentioned this. __________________ Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe

February 22, 2013, 08:37 AM	#5
CowTowner Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2007 Location: Cowtown of course! Posts: 1,747	The page linked to in the OP has a link at the bottom which takes you to www.redflagnews.com They show what appears to be a letter which backs this up. This link goes to the red flag site: http://redflagnews.com/headlines/dis...-or-ammunition The letter can be viewed by clicking on the documents at the bottom of that page. They are in correct page order left to right. __________________ NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, Home Firearms Safety, Pistol and Rifle Instructor *“Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life......”* President John F. Kennedy

February 22, 2013, 03:03 PM	#10
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,815	It may not have happened to you, or anyone you know, but something similar has happened to one vet I know. Not that the VA was stupid enough to put it in a letter or anything traceable... This happened about a decade ago (its not a new thing), the vet, with some medical probems, and some mental issues (not ajudicated inciompetent, PTSD or danger to self/others), was told by his doctors at the VA that he had to get rid of any guns in his house, or they would no longer treat him. He believed them, and sold his two guns. I know the story because I bought one of them. Was it right? No. Was it legal? No. Was it ethical? No. Was it national policy? No. But it did happen. And I bet, if we could hear from ALL the vets (including those passed on) I think we would find that the case I know about wasn't the only one. How many guys over the many years, in desperate need of medical treatment from the VA have done whatever they were told to do, and didn't/couldn't make a public issue about it? I only know one (and he passed away two years ago), but I believe it was not a completely isolated incident. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

February 23, 2013, 02:56 PM	#13
BGutzman Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2009 Location: Frozen Tundra Posts: 2,414	I use the VA and have seen nothing on it. __________________ Molon Labe

February 22, 2013, 06:17 AM	#2
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,459	I use the VA (alleged) healthcare system and I have not received such a letter. However, I have sufficient concerns about the VA and guns that I don't advertise the fact that I own them to my doctor there.

February 22, 2013, 07:58 AM	#3
thallub Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2007 Location: South Western OK Posts: 3,112	Yep, its trash. Some folks would rather climb a slick utility pole and lie than stand on the ground and tell the truth.

February 22, 2013, 10:36 AM	#7
willhud Member Join Date: September 4, 2012 Posts: 60	Not sure how long it will be posted there, but I found the link on the Drudge report. REPORT: Feds send letters to vets taking away gun rights... It's in the first column, second article. http://www.drudgereport.com/ Which links to here, and subsequently to what was already posted from redflagnews. http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013...e-of-firearms/ I find this VERY hard to believe. Would love to see posts from individuals who have received the letter, not that I would wish it on them.

February 22, 2013, 12:06 PM	#8
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	I asked my ol' veteran father to look into this and one of his mil blogs had this to say about it... http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=34265 Brent

February 22, 2013, 02:50 PM	#9
thallub Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2007 Location: South Western OK Posts: 3,112	There are numerous rumors claiming the VA has outlawed gun ownership, ad nauseum. There are rumors that VA doctors ask questions about gun ownership. i'm an Army retiree and disabled vet rated at 80 percent. None of this stuff has ever happened to me or any other disabled vet i know.

February 23, 2013, 11:04 AM	#11
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,459	I think the problem is that NOT all veterans whio use the VA (alleged) healthcare system are being notified. As I look into this, it appears that those of us who go there for annual physicals and flu shots aren't being singled out, but those who may have the misfortune to be exposed to the VA's mental health practitioners are at risk. I do recall that, even though I go in every six months for blood work and a physical, the doctor does ask some seemingly innocuous questions about how things are going at home, any serious concerns, any instances of feeling depressed, yada yada. I'm coming to realize that those seemingly innocuous questions could have serious consequences down the road. Fortunately, my married life is happy and stable so I don't have to lie in response to those questions. Should my situation change, I would have no qualms about continuing the provide the same answers.

February 23, 2013, 08:36 PM	#14
Mac Sidewinder Member Join Date: March 2, 2012 Posts: 84	I retired after 22 years and I have not heard or seen a letter of this type yet. But then again, I don't use the VA medical system, I use Tricare and my local civilian doctors. Mac

February 24, 2013, 09:50 PM	#15
lamarw Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2010 Location: Lake Martin, AL Posts: 3,311	I read this was occuring to a certain categorys of Vets by the VA. I read the documents supposedly being sent to these veterans. After reading the letter with its attachements, I would say if a person is disabled to the point they can not manange the receipt of their disability check then maybe they should not be handling or have possession of a firearm or even be driving for that matter. The supposed letter seems to indicate these veterans required a court appointed guardianship to handle their financial matters. Here is a link to another article discussing this issue: http://www.bob-owens.com/2013/02/don...28Bob+Owens%29 It is sad, but the truth is there are people out there including those who have made extreme sacrifices to their country who should not be permitted to have a firearm since they are a danger to others and themself. I have to assume this is happening only in extreme cases.

February 24, 2013, 09:53 PM	#16
ScottRiqui Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 2,905	I saw an online article written by a lawyer which includes PDF/JPG versions of the VA letter in question, although I can't deny the possibility that he's being hoodwinked as well.

February 26, 2013, 05:43 PM	#17
Tom68 Senior Member Join Date: September 20, 2011 Location: Alabama Posts: 349	http://news.investors.com/ibd-editor...gun-rights.htm it's on the front page of Investor's Business Daily Editorials today. Not that proliferation of a claim increases its validity, but I normally trust IDB to not re-hash unfounded claims. A bit of careful reading may be in order here; the article quotes the Brady Act of 1993: "The VA states on its Fiduciary Program website that, according to the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act, signed into law in 1993, being determined as unable to manage your benefits prevents you from owning and possessing a firearm or ammunition." as a previous poster stated, anyone who can't manage a check sent by the VA has some real problems. That being said, someone at the VA needs to get out in front of this story, or I can foresee lots of vets who really need help avoiding the VA at all costs just to avoid having their constitutional rights taken from them---whether that fear is warranted or not.

February 26, 2013, 06:40 PM	#19
ScottRiqui Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 2,905	I guess it depends on what it takes to be considered "incompetent" by the VA, but isn't that the sort of information we would want to have available in the NICS database?