Who loves 20" barreled AR Rifles?

[agtman]

Old School is still cool: 20" "Retro" pencil-barrel AR ...

[zukiphile]

The original configuration, a 20 inch light barrel and a1 length fixed stock has a lot of merit. It isn't that much longer, does everything a little rifle needs to do, and is a soft shooter. For a shooter six feet and over, the a2 stock works very well for a bladed standing position.

We are awash in options that aren't all improvements.

[DMK]

The original configuration, a 20 inch light barrel and a1 length fixed stock has a lot of merit.

That's the core of what I was going for in my build.

Kind of a "what if" the M16A4 was based on the M16A1 instead of the 'A2.

[zukiphile]

Your build is very appealing; I have one very similar except with a Choate e1 butthook stock, which is even longer than the A2.

These metal free float tubes are useful, but I had an eye opening experience a couple of years ago.

I hadn't shot a stock A2 is a couple of decades and even the iron sight rifles I put together had Magpul handguards. I received a request to build an A4 (an A2 but with picatinny rail on the upper receiver) on a tight budget. I found my old cast off fat handguards, put them on with an A2 stock and screwed on a rear iron sight.

I shouldered it and found that it felt light and perfectly tailored for my standing position. Now, I don't shoot with body armor on, and am generally the very opposite of everything tactical, but the junk pieces that the government used to put on its basic rifles turned out to make a really pleasant rifle.

I'll also speak up for the A1/A2 pistol grips. I like them better than anything else.

[DMK]

These metal free float tubes are useful, but I had an eye opening experience a couple of years ago.

What's the story behind that comment?

I'll also speak up for the A1/A2 pistol grips. I like them better than anything else.

The A2 just doesn't work for me, but I do like the A1 PG a lot.

One day I need to grind the finger nub off an A2 and try it. I've heard that makes a big difference.

[doofus47]

DMK

yet a beautifully light weight pencil barrel 20" gets only iron sights.

I've really not seen any after-market optics that work well for the fixed handle A1 sight pictue (without looking dorky and hanging halfway between the handle and front sight.)

[DMK]

I've really not seen any after-market optics that work well for the fixed handle A1 sight pictue (without looking dorky and hanging halfway between the handle and front sight.)

That's why you use a flat top upper receiver.

[ThomasT]

I am not really an AR guy. I have a DPMS carbine with a 16" barrel and adjustable stock. I have only shot 80 rounds through it so far and I bought right after Sandy hook before the prices went nutty.

I like the way the old original design looked like in post #26 agtman's rifle. I have been looking at this one for a while. I just don't really need it since I don't do as much shooting as I used to do. Swapping the forearm should be an easy switch to a triangle forearm.

http://www.dpmsinc.com/A1-LITE-20_ep_109-1.html

Every time I watch the old movie "Southern Comfort" I get the sweats for an old Vietnam era rifle.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Compact ACOGs are great in the carry handle, even the 4x32s work OK. The balance is a bit weird and height over bore is about an inch higher.

[BWM]

I have 2 of the 20in and they are one hollers one is a Windham VEX-SS fluted the other is a Armalite M-15 TM it also have the heavy barrel but NOT fluted They are most used as a target gun then a varmint gun

[Hunter Customs]

I rebuilt an AR using a 20 inch Criterion H-Bar barrel it's my favorite AR. Took it with me to Montana this year for a little Prairie Dog shooting, it did the job very well.

[stagpanther]

I have a few--and just ordered a 20" ARP grendel barrel to replace the anderson 16" type 1 piece of garbage I had taken a chance on a budget built and came up empty handed.

Beyond the ergonomic considerations, there is a very real performance advantage for many AR 15 platform cartridges in having the 20" option over the 16"--and even over an 18" though not as much obviously. For home defense and thick woods hunting use where I'll likely never shoot over 100 yds--and maybe not even that far--16" or even less is just fine. However, shorter barrel options (and lower velocities) usually have "smaller performance windows" in terms of cartridge/bullet selection.

[clang]

Here is a 20" I pieced together. It started when I picked up a like new Colt 20" HBAR upper at a gun show for ridiculously low price a few years ago. 20" barrels, heavy barrels, and A2 uppers were all out of favor at the time.

I replaced the A2 upper with a flat top so I could more easily mount a scope. I put the gun together with a DPMS lower and bolt group I bought 10-15 years ago. I sold the A2 Colt upper for a very good price to someone making a retro build.

The Nikon scope was also a gun show pickup. The seller moved up to a 1-6x scope and was getting rid of this 1-4x.

The Redfield rings were from that big auction website. The seller said they came with a scope and he did not need them.

I was thinking of installing a free floating hand guard, but the gun is very accurate as is out to 300 meters and I do not plan on putting a more powerful scope on it.

[ATN082268]

Originally Posted by 444

ATN082268

I am not going down the forward assist rabbit hole. Lots of people get highly wound up about it and can't wait to tell you how their version of the story IS the ONLY version of the story. There is no: "in my opinion", or "I believe...." it's always a line drawn in the sand where you either agree with them or you are an idiot.

Suffice it to say that I have been shooting AR15s or M16s since 1981. I served in the military, and I owned my own AR15 since about 1983. I have put tens of thousands of rounds down range. I own probably 10 or 12 of them right now. I prefer to have a forward assist. I don't really care what anyone else thinks about it. I have been on internet gun forums for many years and seen people express their opinion on this enough times to have read all the arguments pro and con. I made up my own mind based on my own experience long ago.

My question wasn't designed to cause controversy. I've shot ARs very little in the past and only own one currently. Hey, it's your call whether to have a forward assist or not on your AR when you are paying for it. All I was asking is how often have you used the forward assist which I think is a fair question.

[shootniron]

My favorite is still my late 70's A2...just can't seem to ever shoot it enough...even though it sits in the safe for extended periods between outings.

[Reloadron]

Who loves 20" barreled AR Rifles?

I don't know that I would say I love them but I have 4 AR 15 rifles and the short barreled ones are 20" .



Left to right are a pair of Colt SP1 rifles with a 20" barrel, then a Colt Target Sporter with a 20" barrel followed by a Mix Master target rifle with a 24" free floated barrel. The last pictured rifle is a 24" heavy barrel AR 10 so it doesn't count. I only have the 24" barreled rifle scoped and all of my AR rifles are plain and simple. Never had much desire or the calling for anything shorter than a 20" barrel.

Ron

[DMK]

there is a very real performance advantage for many AR 15 platform cartridges in having the 20" option over the 16"--and even over an 18" ... shorter barrel options (and lower velocities) usually have "smaller performance windows" in terms of cartridge/bullet selection.

This. The ace card for .223/5.56 is velocity. More velocity gives the round both a flatter trajectory and more reliable terminal effect.

Is velocity out of a 16" good enough for most? Sure. Is more velocity better? Absolutely.

You're leaving a lot of performance on the table with carbine length and shorter barrels.

[squid8286]

The first AR I ever owned was a Bushmaster 20" HBAR A2 back in the mid 90s. I sold it to a relative right after Sandy Hook and really didn't miss it all that much since I mostly shoot some variant of carbine these days. About a year ago, I tried to trade him a carbine for it, and he didn't want to do it, so I ended up building what is mostly an A4 type rifle. I used a stripped Mega upper and lower, (their stuff is NICE) a Windham Weaponry 20" A2 barrel, a Colt BCG and a LaRue MBT two-stage trigger. I have yet to shoot it, but I expect it to do pretty well. I hope it will be as accurate as the old HBAR was.

[BWM]

I have 3 20in 2 are varmint 1 is a Windham VEX standard and the other is a Arma Lite M 15-TBM it has the bull barrel it is a 1/2 MOA it is a good range gun for it is on the heavy side. I am 77 so it does get heavy if I carry it around. I do like the 20in

[ROCK6]

Originally Posted by DMK

This. The ace card for .223/5.56 is velocity. More velocity gives the round both a flatter trajectory and more reliable terminal effect.

Is velocity out of a 16" good enough for most? Sure. Is more velocity better? Absolutely.

You're leaving a lot of performance on the table with carbine length and shorter barrels.

As a bench shooter, I don't disagree, but as one who does play "operator and Indian", the shorter carbine barrels still provide adequate terminal performance in a far more maneuverable, compact package. All my personal ARs have 16" barrels and I've never felt as if their terminal performance was a crutch. I will concede, a clean looking 20" AR does balance well, but having jumped with both an A2 model and an M4, I would far rather have an M4

Honestly, if I feed the need for more barrel and performance, I'll step up to a .308 and a longer rifle-barrel length. 99% of my shooting needs are easily handled by 16" barreled ARs (carbines). I also don't like a 12-pound, accessory-laden carbine...

To the OP, that is a very sweet 20" barrel AR...simple and very functional looking.

ROCK6

[stagpanther]

Honestly, if I feed the need for more barrel and performance, I'll step up to a .308 and a longer rifle-barrel length. 99% of my shooting needs are easily handled by 16" barreled ARs (carbines). I also don't like a 12-pound, accessory-laden carbine...

I agree with this too--I have plenty of short-barrel and pistol builds that I prefer for 150/100 yd or inside which is more than enough for the thick woods I hunt. Great stripped down to "bare essence red dot" for me. If my quest is the longest range game dropper based on an AR15 platform--then I generally choose a minimum 18" and usually 20" if it is offered and in a rifle gas system, with a tunable block I've found I can usually get the gun to handle a wide variety of hand-loads and still shoot softly. So it's sorta a "versatility" advantage to me. Trade-off is portability and quick-acquire--no doubt about that. A testimony to the inherent greatness of the platform IMO--how easily it is adaptable to a wide variety of configurations. I just built a blow-back pistol carbine AR--it's kinda cool but I have to admit I'm a bit nervous about no bolt lock-up.

[DMK]

I also don't like a 12-pound, accessory-laden carbine...

To the OP, that is a very sweet 20" barrel AR...simple and very functional looking.

Thanks Rock! I was trying to keep this build as lightweight and simple as possible.

I appreciate your insights from the perspective of a combat vet too.

[DMK]

I have plenty of short-barrel and pistol builds that I prefer for 150/100 yd or inside which is more than enough for the thick woods I hunt. Great stripped down to "bare essence red dot" for me. If my quest is the longest range game dropper based on an AR15 platform--then I generally choose a minimum 18" and usually 20" if it is offered

For this rifle, I was kind of going for a good all-purpose AR, trying to keep the original design of the AR15 (20" barrel, light weight and simple), but with more versatility for modern accessories.

It's not a door kicker/QCB by any means, but I have short barrel AR pistols and carbines. I also have heavier caliber rifles including a few FALs that I do love.

There is no perfect rifle. Every rifle favors some things in trade for compromise somewhere else.

[stagpanther]

There is no perfect rifle. Every rifle favors some things in trade for compromise somewhere else.

That's why I have 3 safes full em--or at least did, prior to the boating accident.

[ms6852]

I own the RRA predator with with a 20" barrel (heavy), that shoots better than the 3/4" MOA guarantee it came with. It is a laser at 500 yards and loves the 75gr. hpbt Hornady bullets.