Ripped-off on a S&W 629-1

[Bill DeShivs]

t4terrific- Have you actually READ the thread?
Obviously not....

[Don P]

The OP states its a "used gun" so whats the problem with having the gun fixed by S&W on the sellers dime. Why didn't you inspect the gun? Accepting the gun without inspection is on you. You could have refused the gun. Why didn't the gun smith at your FFL remove the side plate? Is he not a gunsmith?

[tipoc]

The OP states its a "used gun" so whats the problem with having the gun fixed by S&W on the sellers dime. Why didn't you inspect the gun? Accepting the gun without inspection is on you. You could have refused the gun. Why didn't the gun smith at your FFL remove the side plate? Is he not a gunsmith?

It's useful to read all the thread and what the OP has said along the way.

tipoc

[t4terrific]

Originally Posted by Bill DeShivs

t4terrific- Have you actually READ the thread?
Obviously not....

Tightening the screws is just too much, though.

Did you even look at the pictures in the opening post? There’s a crease in the plate for crying out loud! It’s in the pictures!

I thought you were joking, as nobody using a rational thought would think you had stated a plausible solution to the problem (if they saw the pictures).

You kept popping off about tightening screws, until you stood corrected.

Then you started popping off about going directly to the seller and demanding a refund.

Again, didn’t you even read the opening post?

The OP said the seller would not even discuss a refund without a letter from Smith & Wesson.

Stand corrected. You’ve just added to the chaos of the thread without paying attention to word and pictures in the original post.

Tighten them screws!

[Bill DeShivs]

People see things in pictures differently. What I saw appeared to be a loose side plate.
I can assure you my experience with guns is extensive.

[Flight Medic]

Originally Posted by arquebus357

The OP is saying he did not buy a factory refurbished gun which is what it will be if he agrees to let S&W fix it. He paid a premium in order to receive a, better than usual, firearm. That's not what he received.

THANK YOU!! At least someone here understands what I’m trying to say. “Agtman” seems pretty confused.

[Flight Medic]

Originally Posted by tipoc

This was a simple thing that was made a can of worms by the op.

tipoc

How exactly do you figure that? Should I have just rolled over and accepted the gun? I was following the sellers instructions for returning the revolver. When I did to the letter (pun intended), he STILL refused to take the revolver back. The revolver is currently in the possession of S&W Performance Center (sent directly from the receiving FFL) awaiting the seller to agree to take it back.

All I wanted was either what I agreed to buy (an “Excellent Condition” revolver) or my money back. The seller was hoping the letter from S&W would take much longer, hoping to extend his decision (to NOT accept the revolver back or issue me a refund) past the point where I could leave negative feedback for him. It was a stall tactic, pure and simple...he never had any intention of making this right.

My ONLY saving grace in this whole mess was I paid with a CC...but still no guarantee it will turn out in my favor as I dont know the CC company’s policy on used/vintage items that are out of warranty.

[Flight Medic]

Originally Posted by Bill DeShivs

I stand corrected.
It would seem your issue is with the seller instead of Gunbroker.

My issue has ALWAYS been with the seller, Bill.

[tipoc]

Flight Medic, I'm sorry you had trouble. This is just business and what happened here is not uncommon. Neither is how to handle it.

You received the gun and it was not in the condition that you wanted. You had proof of this. The original ad was and is proof of what seller said was the condition. You also had the witnesses in the form of the gun store owner and the gunsmith.

You spoke to the seller and he said he would not accept the gun back nor return the money.

At that point you had the option of contacting the credit card company and telling them to cancel the payment. The reason was that the gun was sold to you and when it arrived it was not in the condition it was advertised as. As proof of this you had the ads, the witnesses of the store owner and gunsmith, and photos. This was adequate to prove to the CC company that you had a case.

You would of needed to speak with the credit card company about when to return the damaged gun to the seller.

You had no reason to send the gun to S&W for a letter. You did not need it in order to get your money back.

Gunbroker also did not need to give you any money as the responsibility did not rest with them but with the seller.

Once you had your money back you could leave very bad feedback for the seller as he was an untrustworthy seller.

This is a simple transaction and a common one, don't matter whether a gun or a vacuum cleaner. You bought a product. It arrived not as advertised. You contact the seller but they do not do the right thing. So cancel the payment, which returns the money to you. At the proper time return the item to the seller. You need nothing else from them. Leave a bad review.

Avoid melodrama.

tipoc

[Carmady]

I hope this resolves itself and you get your money back; too bad you won't be compensated for your frustration and time.

[agtman]

My ONLY saving grace in this whole mess was I paid with a CC...but still no guarantee it will turn out in my favor as I dont know the CC company’s policy on used/vintage items that are out of warranty.

Wait a minute ...

You made a pricey on-line purchase with a credit card without knowing what your C.C. company's policy was in the event of a disputed claim (or outright rip-off) involving a 'used,' 'vintage,' or otherwise 'out-of-warranty' handgun?

Dude, the pro-active concept you're struggling to understand is called: doing your Due Diligence beforehand, not afterward.

[stinkeypete]

I have used Online to buy and sell firearms with good results for many years. I think some of that is good luck and some is good practices.

When making a substantial purchase, I contact the seller individually before bidding. If they don’t have time for my thoughtful questions before the sale, they won’t have time for me after the sale.

If I ever get a feeling something is a little bit “off” but I don’t know what gives me that feeling, I walk away. Life is too short.

Just recently, some guy wanted to sell his single six revolver. He seemed like a nice enough guy, but was hinting there was something about the base pin and a bunch of nonsense gun words. I was suspicious and on inspection something was really wacky about his base pin. He took my $220 happily.

I moved the base pin release spring to the OTHER side of the release button. He had his set up to always be open.

In this case, the guy had a broken gun he wanted to sell me but didn’t want to admit it was broke. I figured in the worst case I part out the gun and take a small loss, more likely a Belt Mountain base pin would fix it up for $25 and to my delight... ten minutes and a screw driver with a notch in it fixed it up just dandy.

It’s in excellent shape. It makes me wonder just how many years ago was that spring installed in the wrong order?! Also I notice the documentation wasn’t in the ruger box lid. Should have looked at the assembly diagram! I will get Rugers excellent service dept to send me that info, because that ruger box looks wrong without the envelope in the lid.

On the other side, I sold something that did not live up to a customer’s expectation because it turns out I really didn’t know what I had. I asked what he wanted to do to make it right, then did more than he asked. He gave me a great review, even though I messed up.

I’ve met some real nice fellas this way.

Sorry you had a bad experience, but in the worst possible case, S&W goes over your pistol, you pay a little more than you thought, but you end up with a fine piece you can take pride in for a lifetime.

[tipoc]

You will need a paper trail to return the gun to the seller. With a signature required for acceptance and a record of that. If that is what you choose to do.

Yes it's possible that the seller was stalling you. You walked into that trap. It's also possible that he/she has done this before. So no amount of imploring will work. They count on that imploring and count on folks getting mad. That is, if they are in that fraud business at all.

If the original ad said "All sales final. No returns" then you are out of luck.

It would have been useful to have had the talk with the CC company right away. But even now it's not too late. They know, if it's a large company, that this stuff is common and they know what to do to make you safe. Some company's may have limits on used items. Need to check that.

Think of how many folks buy used cars that no one told them were in floods. This thing ain't unusual.

I don't mean to rag you or insult you at all. But there is a clear way to move forward.

tipoc

[t4terrific]

Originally Posted by agtman

Wait a minute ...



You made a pricey on-line purchase with a credit card without knowing what your C.C. company's policy was in the event of a disputed claim (or outright rip-off) involving a 'used,' 'vintage,' or otherwise 'out-of-warranty' handgun?



Dude, the pro-active concept you're struggling to understand is called: doing your Due Diligence beforehand, not afterward.

What is your credit card company’s said policy?

[dgludwig]

You made a pricey on-line purchase with a credit card without knowing what your C.C. company's policy was in the event of a disputed claim (or outright rip-off) involving a 'used,' 'vintage,' or otherwise 'out-of-warranty' handgun?

Dude, the pro-active concept you're struggling to understand is called: doing your Due Diligence beforehand, not afterward.

I'd be very surprised if very many people actually review the terms of their credit card regarding claim disputes before they have an occasion to challenge a seller-but, maybe most people do for all I know.

agtman, what's with all the "dude" calling?

[Grizzly2]

I see a week has gone by. Any word yet? I'm rooting for a refund.

[Flight Medic]

Originally Posted by agtman

Yeah, right ...

I'm sure the rather not-busy AG of ND will be gittin' right on that.

Actually they were pretty quick to respond to notify me that they contacted the seller and began an investigation into my complaint.








It may not come out in my favor, but the fact that this seller is forced to respond to the AG of ND is gonna put a bee in his bonnet...and that's something, at least.




Don't be such a naysayer, "Dude".


~

[Flight Medic]

Originally Posted by agtman

Wait a minute ...

You made a pricey on-line purchase with a credit card without knowing what your C.C. company's policy was in the event of a disputed claim (or outright rip-off) involving a 'used,' 'vintage,' or otherwise 'out-of-warranty' handgun?

Dude, the pro-active concept you're struggling to understand is called: doing your Due Diligence beforehand, not afterward.

OMG...you're ridiculous.

Yes, I made a purchase with my credit card without reading the twelve pages of legalese that came with it.

Honestly, the thought of buying vintage or used item with a CC never even occurred to me before...I've always paid cash (or M.O.). But I got a card with 0% interest (for the first year) a while back and hadn't used it yet...so I thought "why not" and decided to eat the 3% CC fee.

However, it doesn't really matter what I did or didn't read, you'd have something negative to say either way.

[laytonj1]

Actually they were pretty quick to respond to notify me that they contacted the seller and began an investigation into my complaint.

Wow! That is great to see. Keep us posted and good luck.

Jim

[NWPilgrim]

Originally Posted by laytonj1

Wow! That is great to see. Keep us posted and good luck.



Jim

Actually the Attorney General office of consumer affairs are often a very good help. We had an issue long ago renting an apartment with the stipulation the filthy carpet would be replaced. Three months later no carpet and manager says no can do, maybe “next year or two.” I called the AG office and literally the next morning at 7am the manager politely knocks on our door asking would it be convenient to replace the carpet this afternoon? All the did was fax a letter of inquiry to the manager, but that letterhead must have impressed him!

The seem to love an opportunity to stand up for a consumer and claim victory and the letterhead gets attention. As a side note I worked in a State agency that processed injured worker time loss and medical claims. Totally swamped with documents from every side but ANY incoming mail from an attorney went to the top of the priority pile for claims mgrs to work on THAT day.

[Mal H]

This has gone long enough, and with some very questionable posts now out of view, I'll close it.