How Strong is the 1892 Action?

[TruthTellers]

This is sort of a follow up question from another thread, but I figure it deserves its own topic here.

I'm thinking about a .45 Colt chambered 1892 clone made by either Rossi or Chiappa and I'm just wondering, how strong is the action of the 1892? Could I trim .454 Casull brass down to .45 Colt lengths and load them nearly as hot as standard .454 and will the 1892 action be able to hold up to that power?

[mehavey]

The 454 is a 65ksi cartridge.
I'd go no more than "Ruger Only" in the `92s rear lock-up action.

[Art Eatman]

mehavey has the correct answer, IMO.

Note that the stronger Model 94 is rated for no more than 40,000 psi--at least that's what I read way back when.

[Hawg]

Sure it will. The 92 has two locking lugs where the 94 only has one. Plus the 92 comes in .454 Casull and 480 Ruger.

[Scorch]

Not all 92s are created equal. The Rossi 92s are available chambered for 454 Cassull, I see a few of them in our shop for pressure-related issues but they seem to be made strong enough to take it. The Chiappas are a reproduction of the original Winchester 92s, and are available in 44 Rem Mag, so I would say they are plenty strong as well.

Having said that, I will say this: if you want to hot-rod the 45 Colt, buy a Rossi in 454 Casull, then you can run all the hot 45 Colt loads in the world through it and not worry. If you want a 92 that is true to the original designs, get the Chiappa (if you just gotta hot rod it, get a 44 mag),.

[Wyosmith]

The design is strong enough if the metal is good enough. The older Winchesters can wear and beat out. I have fixed head-space problems on a handful of old M92s.
But the new ones made of good steel and well heat treated really surprised me. They are very strong. As was pointed out, they are made in Brazil in 454 Casull which has higher chamber pressure then most factory 7MM Rem mag ammo.

The down side (so I am told) is firing a heavy bullet 454 in a 5.5 pound carbine makes a 300 mag seem tame.

I have not had the pleasure myself, but I did own a Browning M-92 in 44 mag, and firing 280 grain cast gas-check bullets at top pressure the little thing kicked as hard as any 30-06 I ever fired.
I didn't mind, but I can't say it was a pussycat by any means.

[mehavey]

See https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...13&postcount=3

Having read that, it's all about stock/buttplate design.
My `94 Marlin in 44Mag is not uncomfortable in the least.

[HiBC]

Watch your barrel contour and dovetail cuts.

A transverse dovetail cut on a light barrel contour is a stress riser.Might not be a big deal at low intensity loads.
Race it out a bit and the harmonics go haywire.Groups get big.Guess where all that flex is occurring? At the notch. Enough cycles,it may let go.

And,upping your recoil means your mag tube and how it is held must be up to the task.
You might look real close at buttstock/receiver bedding.

There is some devil in the details. Not saying "Can't be done" Saying "Will be done,sooner or later"

Do what makes you happy,I suggest abandoning the notion that more is always better.

Do you anticipate shooting farther than ...oh,150 yds? More? OK 200?

Now,what is the greatest beast you anticipate blowing a hole through?

Question like that will answer "How much do I need" "Where is enough?"
Better than just "If I do this I can get xxxx out of it!!!"
To what end?

[TruthTellers]

Do you anticipate shooting farther than ...oh,150 yds? More? OK 200?

If I do, it's only going to be for deer. My goal is too keep all shots within 100 yards.

Now,what is the greatest beast you anticipate blowing a hole through?

As I mentioned in the other thread, bear and moose.

Partly the reason I've really taken to the idea of a Thompson Center Encore in .460 S&W... it has more power. However, if a lever action rifle in .45 Colt, loaded to nearly as powerful as .454 in a rifle will do it, or the hottest .454 Casull from a .454 chambered rifle will do it, then forget the .460 S&W.

[Scorch]

Well, if you really ant a hot 45 caliber rifle, the Ruger American Rifle is chambered for 450 Bushmaster.

[HiBC]

Given what you said,one of the factory new 454 Casull 92"s might be the straightest line.

[mehavey]

This 45 colt loading is perfectly acceptable for what you intend, perfectly reasonable in a `92, and perfectly comfortable in a light carbine.

why beat yourself up?




a Flat-nosed 340gr/1,240fps projectile at moderate pressures (~25,000psi) is comfortable to shoot and will cleanly kill you've mentioned at the yardage you've indicated, ...and then

[Hawg]

This 45 colt loading is perfectly acceptable for what you intend, perfectly reasonable in a `92, and perfectly comfortable in a light carbine.

why beat yourself up?

Not everybody's shoulders are that tender.

[mehavey]

The thing about having a lot of life behind you, is you don't haef to prove yourself anymore.

My Ruger 458 Win doesn't "hurt" me.
That light Rossi`92 in 44 Mag, did.

Match the power to the rifle design... the whole design ... which includes the shooter.
Gross recoil, length, weight, stock/buttplate dimension/shape, and 2nd-3rd shot control
really do matter.

The `92 is a magnificently-designed light carbine. 125 years old and still nothing can
touch it for strength, flexibility, and classic handling.

But also like the most magnificent of women, don't push it past her limits....

She'll bite you.




.

[Hawg]

The thing about having a lot of life behind you, is you don't haef to prove yourself anymore.

I'm 60 and have nothing to prove. I'm just glad I'm not recoil sensitive.

[mehavey]

I've got you by (many) years. And no, I'm not recoil sensitive either. But.......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VrFV5r8cs0
BTW: I got the 458Win 37 years ago--only slightly used--along with a box of shells...
... 2 missing.

[leo96150]

Why not look at the Rossi Rio Grande or Marlin 1895 in 45-70?

[VoodooMountain]

The rossi 92 in 454 was able to tolerate he abuse due to a different beat treat. I'm not sure how durable the 45 colt version will be with hot loads.

Finding a 454 version might be more appropriate for your intentions.

[TruthTellers]

Finding a .454 Rossi will prove easy and I'd rather buy something more common be it a 1892 .45 Colt or a .460 Encore.

[ThomasT]

The gun writer Mike Venturino came to Tx on a control hunt and brought a 44-40 with him. Shooting a 200gr bullet at normal speeds (1200fps) he killed at least 4 deer and all shots were complete pass throughs at 100 yards or so. He stated he didn't see where more power was needed. So the standard 45 colt or maybe just a little more will give you all the killing power you need for deer.

[Hawg]

I've killed deer with a black powder powered Rossi 92 in 44-40. The 44-40 has probably killed as many deer as the 30-30 if not more.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Rossi or Chiappa and I'm just wondering,

454 lever rifle is already marketed. In a Henry lever like design. i.e. (tube fed)

http://www.realguns.com/articles/588.htm

[eastbank]

I bought a new in the box ruger # 1A in .460 with 100 new cases along with a few other rifles and I can,t wait to try it out. I think it would make a good caliber in a 1886 win or marln 1895 repo. eastbank.

[Slamfire]

Having said that, I will say this: if you want to hot-rod the 45 Colt, buy a Rossi in 454 Casull, then you can run all the hot 45 Colt loads in the world through it and not worry.

This is the only way to go for 454 Casull level loads. If you buy an action that was built for a lower pressure round, what you don't know could hurt you. You don't know if there are different steels, different heat treats, or different something else to the 454 Casull action. There might very well be. You cannot assume that the same engine is under the hood of all cars, even though they all look the same.

[TruthTellers]

Originally Posted by TruthTellers

Finding a .454 Rossi will prove easy and I'd rather buy something more common be it a 1892 .45 Colt or a .460 Encore.

I meant to say finding a Rossi in .454 will NOT prove easy.