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Old June 20, 2016, 07:59 AM   #1
Tucker 1371
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Thinking about a Form 1

So I've found a few of these oil/fuel filter suppressor dealios and since I just bought a house and can't suck it up and drop the coin on a "real" silencer I figured this might be a good way to go for me.

I found this: http://gunthreadadapters.com/shop/un...-24003-filter/

What I am wondering is if I can submit it as a Form 1 and serialize just the brake that way I can just replace the fuel filters when they get shot out.

I'm thinking about getting one 5/8x24 thread brake and installing adapters on both my M1A and AR15 and running it on both of them.
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Old June 20, 2016, 11:18 AM   #2
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Unless they've changed their mind recently and I missed it, the ATF says you can't switch out the oil filter yourself, you have to send it to a manufacturer. The ATF doesn't just regulate the serialized part of a silencer, they also regulate the baffles, which they consider "silencer parts". For example, if I get a baffle strike on my Octane 9, SilencerCo can't just send me an extra baffle, I have to send the whole silencer in to them and they have to switch it out.

The same goes for the filter on an oil filter silencer: Only a licensed manufacturer of NFA firearms can switch out the oil filter. And it doesn't matter if it was a Form 4 or a Form 1; once you have made a Form 1 silencer you can't switch out parts yourself.

http://johnpierceesq.com/suppressors...d-legal-traps/

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Old June 20, 2016, 02:13 PM   #3
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One of the local shops that sells silencers will let you pay half when they file the form 4, and the balance once it's approved (before you take possession).

Might ask around if anybody near you does something similar. The Form 4 is gonna take 4-6 months anyway, so that might be one way to swing it.
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Old June 20, 2016, 08:54 PM   #4
Tucker 1371
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But if I am the manufacturer, hence the Form 1 not Form 4, I can change it myself right?

The plan was to buy the muzzle adapter for the fuel filter, put a serial number on it, submit the form 1, and then when it comes back attach the fuel filter.
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Old June 20, 2016, 09:00 PM   #5
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Unfortunately, thats not the way ATF is looking at it.

BOTH the adaptor and the filter must have the s/n engraved. You cannot just discard the filter and reengrave the new filter with the same #.

Just like a suppressor manufacture cant replace a blown out tube with a new one and just reuse the S/n

And you are NOT the manufacturer. That requires a certain type of FFL to "Manufacture" suppressors. You are the "maker"....different under the law
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Old June 20, 2016, 11:24 PM   #6
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If you have a mechine shop make it (under your supervision) I dont know where you would send it to! May be you are right. Form 1 is very interesting!
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Old June 21, 2016, 12:35 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tucker 1371
But if I am the manufacturer, hence the Form 1 not Form 4, I can change it myself right?
Unfortunately, no. Sharkbite hit the nail on the head: You're not a manufacturer, you're just making and registering your own silencer. To be a manufacturer you'd need a Type 7 or Type 10 FFL along with a Class 2 SOT.

Once someone builds their Form 1 silencer they can't switch out any parts on that silencer that the ATF considers "silencer parts" (usually internal baffles) since that person isn't a licensed manufacturer of NFA firearms. And the ATF sees the filter on a oil filter silencer as a silencer part since it's basically the baffle assembly.
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Old June 21, 2016, 01:53 AM   #8
Tucker 1371
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Ok, so when the fuel filter is shot out can I take it to any Type 10 FFL? There is one near me.
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Old June 21, 2016, 02:59 AM   #9
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You have to find an FFL that has a Class 2 SOT (that's the SOT that lets them manufacture NFA items), they're the only ones who can switch out silencer parts. And only a Type 7 or Type 10 FFL can have a Class 2 SOT.

But yes, a Class 2 SOT can switch out silencer parts (like the oil filter).
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Old June 21, 2016, 03:25 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharkbite
BOTH the adaptor and the filter must have the s/n engraved. You cannot just discard the filter and reengrave the new filter with the same #.

Just like a suppressor manufacture cant replace a blown out tube with a new one and just reuse the S/n
I suppose I should clarify this part. The ATF has stated that they want the filter to be serialized to match the filter adapter, but they still consider the filter to be a silencer part and not the actual serialized silencer itself. That means a Class 2 SOT can switch out the oil filter just like it was a regular baffle, and you can send the whole thing directly to the SOT and they can sent it straight back to you when they're done doing the work.

But replacing a blow-out silencer tube (or the adapter for the filter) is just like replacing the whole silencer; it would have to be re-Form 4ed to you and you'd have to pay another $200 transfer tax and wait for the stamp to come back.
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Old June 21, 2016, 06:12 AM   #11
Tucker 1371
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Quote:
it would have to be re-Form 4ed to you and you'd have to pay another $200 transfer tax and wait for the stamp to come back.
Well... Forget that idea ... Stupid NFA
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Old June 21, 2016, 11:05 AM   #12
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Just to clarify further, you wouldn't need a new tax stamp to replace the oil filter, just for the adapter is itself. The adapter is considered the registered silencer.

Since the oil filter is a just a silencer part, it can be changed out by a manufacturer as quickly as they can get to it. The last I checked, there were Class 2 SOTs who would do this for just $25.
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Old June 21, 2016, 11:51 AM   #13
Tucker 1371
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But every time a fuel/oil filter is replaced I have to pay for another $200 transfer and wait X months, correct?

*edit*

Disregard the above. I get it now. So it is as I understood it before: the adapter is the registered part. If the adapter breaks I'm doing the whole Form 1 runaround all over again. BUT if the fuel filter gets shot out all I have to do is take it to the appropriate establishment with the appropriate licenses and have them screw on a new fuel filter and slap on the serial number to match the adapter. No Xfer tax, stamp, etc. Correct? Just pay the business for their service and be on my merry way?

IF all of that is the case, the only point I'm still unclear on is this: Can I put a serial number on a fuel filter and one of these adapters and submit them on a Form 1 as a suppressor? Or do I need all the crazy licenses to make (not repair) one for myself in the first place?
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Old June 21, 2016, 01:45 PM   #14
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S/n and trust info/makers info engraved on the adaptor and form 1 it..

Theo has forgotten more about this stuff then most of us know. Id trust his info to be accurate.
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Old June 21, 2016, 04:45 PM   #15
Tucker 1371
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I'm doing my best to wrap my head around it. Almost seemed like he said two contradictory things there a few posts back but then I read over it a couple more times.
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Old June 21, 2016, 05:58 PM   #16
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Silencers. Big, bulky, don't work very well, PITA regulations, too expensive and makes a well balanced compact handgun into a total chunk of junk. Seriously, what's the point? It's not like you can take your favorite 9mm handgun and throw tons of cheap rounds down range quietly by screwing on your $1000 silencer.

No, you have to spend big bucks on sub-sonic rounds which pretty much suck for any purpose other than playing with a silencer pretending it's "quiet".

IMHO, silencers are a big scam. If it was just money, I'd buy one for kicks and giggles. I just don't get the infatuation with silencers. If I were an Anti, I'd be gunning for a law that requires all handguns to be fitted with permanent silencers to make them utterly useless. And, you think that chamber indicator got in your way!!! End of rant.
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Old June 21, 2016, 06:13 PM   #17
Tucker 1371
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Well for handguns they're not that cool but they do make things relatively easier on your hearing with or without subsonic rounds.

That and consider the fact that a 230gr .45 ACP is already subsonic and gives up nothing ballistically with a suppressor.

IraqVeteran8888 did a great YouTube video hog hunting with an AR chambered in .25-45 Sharps suppressed. At one point he shoots a hog out of a group that drops over and begins flopping. The other hogs look up for a second and then go back to burying their faces in the ground.

I can remember a time in Afghanistan when I was on a patrol and we had halted. Our DM, without telling me, decided to check his zero on his suppressed Mk12 SPR. All I recall hearing was a supersonic crack so I thought we had just been shot at. Had a little moment there and then we all laughed. Point is, the suppressor made the gun shot right next to me sound like a gun shot from afar.
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Old June 21, 2016, 09:05 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tucker 1371
So it is as I understood it before: the adapter is the registered part. If the adapter breaks I'm doing the whole Form 1 runaround all over again. BUT if the fuel filter gets shot out all I have to do is take it to the appropriate establishment with the appropriate licenses and have them screw on a new fuel filter and slap on the serial number to match the adapter. No Xfer tax, stamp, etc. Correct? Just pay the business for their service and be on my merry way?
Correct. The only thing I'm not 100% sure on is whether the ATF officially requires the oil filter to be serialized also, or whether it's just a suggestion and manufacturers do it to cover their rear-ends. (There are other things the ATF wants that aren't required and are just requests, like notifying them of any permanent changes to the configuration of your SBR.) Also, since the ATF doesn't require serial numbers on the removable part of modular cans like the Ti-Rant 45M or the Ghost 45M, I can't see an obvious legal difference between those and the oil filter on an oil filter silencer.

Maybe the reason the ATF wants a serial number on the oil filter is because that part can easily be illegally switched out by the user, whereas the end of a modular silencer can't be (and wouldn't need to be, anyway). But I'd like to find something where the ATF specifically discusses this issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tucker 1371
I'm doing my best to wrap my head around it. Almost seemed like he said two contradictory things there a few posts back but then I read over it a couple more times.
Sometimes I'm not as clear as I could be. If there's anything you need clarification on, please let me know.
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Old June 21, 2016, 09:16 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharkbite
Theo has forgotten more about this stuff then most of us know. Id trust his info to be accurate.
Thanks, man. Though I've definitely been wrong before and I'm sure I'll be wrong many more times. As far as this issue is concerned, I do have one question on this that I brought up in my previous post.
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Old June 21, 2016, 10:34 PM   #20
Tucker 1371
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Thanks Theo! Sorry my brain may not have been firing all cylinders yet when I read your post this morning
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Old June 22, 2016, 02:10 PM   #21
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Dont fool with the oil filter adapters. They are nothing but trouble with the atf. If cost is the concern then start reading up on "solvent trap" kits. You can buy cool end caps, the main tube, thrrad adaptets and the "K" cups all premade. Do an efile form 1, have the tube engraved, drill the cups and end cup oit and you have a suppressor for about $300 plus a tax stamp. OR check out hunter town arms. No fuss, no muss, just decent suppressors for a low price. And to retort the post above, suppressors are awesome and addictive.
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Old June 22, 2016, 04:01 PM   #22
Tucker 1371
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Adapter- $65

Napa 4003 Fuel Filter- $40

Kit for Engraving SN- $20

Tax stamp- $200

Total- $325

The only advantage the solvent trap kit could possibly have is longevity, if that. I don't suspect those baffles are made from inconel. I admit I could be wrong.

If I am going to buy a suppressor outright I'm going to save up and buy a Griffin Optimus. One and done.
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Old June 22, 2016, 08:25 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainsaw.
check out hunter town arms. No fuss, no muss, just decent suppressors for a low price.
I have no personal experience with their silencers, but the general consensus seems to be that they're really, really loud. I once looked up "Huntertown" on SilencerTalk.com and this is the first post I found: "I've got a Huntertown 7.62 Kestrel and it was the biggest dissapointment ever. I'm thinking of re-purposing it as a lawnmower muffler, but even then it might be too loud. What a waste of money."

The Huntertown cans are apparently loud enough that there are companies that offer to re-core them to make them closer to what a normal can should sound like. Curtis Tactical is one company who offers to replace Huntertown baffles:

http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/vi...c.php?t=135851
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Old June 23, 2016, 04:20 PM   #24
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Wow I hadn't hear that. Ive only heard good things. Definitely something to consider.

On the "solvent trap" kits you have the choice of aluminum, stainless or titanium cups/baffels. Youll be a long while before you erode SS or titanium.
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Old August 11, 2016, 02:52 PM   #25
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Quote:
Silencers. Big, bulky, don't work very well,
Not all are too big, most work very well.

Quote:
PITA regulations,
I agree.

Quote:
too expensive and makes a well balanced compact handgun into a total chunk of junk.
Not the 22's.

Quote:
Seriously, what's the point?
Less noise.

Quote:
It's not like you can take your favorite 9mm handgun and throw tons of cheap rounds down range quietly by screwing on your $1000 silencer.
My 9mm can only cost me about $40 plus tax.

Quote:
No, you have to spend big bucks on sub-sonic rounds
147 subsonic don't really cost much different than other 125 cartridges to reload.

Quote:
which pretty much suck for any purpose other than playing with a silencer pretending it's "quiet".
The 147 subs in a 9mm are lethal, or do they just leave little marks on your skin?

Quote:
IMHO, silencers are a big scam.
Wrong again.

Quote:
I just don't get the infatuation with silencers.
They make guns less noisy, that's it.

Quote:
End of rant.
Good.
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