Opinion: Are these primers flattened?

Jeffdg · May 2, 2008, 05:21 PM

Okay - I'm using what I think are safe loads - though it's darn near impossible to find good load data for .40 S&W w/180 gr FMJ. Some of these loads have less recoil than factory ammo (e.g. Winchester 165 Gr bullet).

So, the picture shows three loads (left three columns) and new reloads (right column) for primer comparison. I'm new to all this reloading and want to be sure I am not over (or under for that matter) loading.

The loads are as follows from leftmost column to right: all using 180 Gr. FMJ bullets and Winchester primers.

1. 4.6 gr AA#2 with an OAL=1.125"
2. 4.9 gr AA#2 with an OAL=1.125"
3. 5.2 gr AA#2 with an OAL=1.160"

So, what do you think, are these flattened?

....If so, do you have suggested recipes for this (same bullet... but can use different powder if need be!).

Thank you!!

rwilson452 · May 2, 2008, 05:24 PM

They look good to me. From your picture you look to be well with in the safe range

Quote:

Okay - I'm using what I think are safe loads - though it's darn near impossible to find good load data for .40 S&W w/180 gr FMJ.

So, the picture shows three loads (left three columns) and new reloads (right column) for primer comparison. I'm new to all this reloading and want to be sure I am not over (or under for that matter) loading.

The loads are as follows from leftmost column to right: all using 180 Gr. FMJ bullets and Winchester primers.

1. 4.6 gr AA#2 with an OAL=1.125"
2. 4.9 gr AA#2 with an OAL=1.125"
3. 5.2 gr AA#2 with an OAL=1.160"

So, what do you think, are these flattened?

....If so, do you have suggested recipes for this (same bullet... but can use different powder if need be!).

Thank you!!

dipper · May 2, 2008, 05:26 PM

Don't look flattened to me.

Dipper

DWARREN123 · May 2, 2008, 05:52 PM

Look good to me but I am half blind in my left eye and can't see good out of the right.
GLOCK pistol? I like 7.3 to 7.5gr of Longshot for 165 to 180gr HP 40 S&W. Very clean and accurate.
Check out the Hodgdon web site for load data.

Jeffdg · May 2, 2008, 06:17 PM

"GLOCK pistol?"

no - for my Witness Limited - hard to get but an incredible pistol.

This is great - thanks for the input!

Sevens · May 2, 2008, 06:29 PM

Either we aren't looking at the same picture, or my eyes are playing tricks on me. What I'm seeing are three of the fired rounds which appear to have pierced primers, which is NOT good, will likely never be good.

The primers on the ones that did not pierce don't look offensive to me-- a .40 S&W will have primers that look like a stiff load, as it's not a baby.

I looked up the Accurate Powder website, and that data appears to be good for #2 powder and a 180 grain bullet, though the only 180 grainer they list is the Hornady XTP. (they do list a Ranier plated bullet at a lower load)

Who made your bullets? If it were me, my next two steps would be an e-mail or phone call to Accurate Powder, and the same thing to the manufacturer of your bullet.

Jeffdg · May 2, 2008, 06:40 PM

They are Montana Gold 180 Gr. FMJ

**Mal H** · May 2, 2008, 07:59 PM

Sevens - I think your eyes are playing tricks on you.

What you see as pierced primers appear to be firing pin grooves. The FP hasn't retracted as the case is being ejected and makes a groove for a short distance. That isn't uncommon and depends on the pistol design more than anything.

**44 AMP** · May 2, 2008, 08:26 PM

I guess that's a good a name as any. My Browing BDA .45 (early Sig P220) does this, with every round. Always has. Never been any problem, just lets me know which gun fired that particular empty!

oh yeah, those primers look fine to me. When the curve around the edge of the primer cup goes away, and there is no "groove" between the primer and the brass, that is flattened! Time to back the load down a bit then.

mrawesome22 · May 2, 2008, 08:44 PM

No flattening whatsoever I can see.

SL1 · May 2, 2008, 09:34 PM

Looking for primer flattening won't protect you against high pressure in the 40 S&W. The max pressure for that cartridge is only 35,000 psi. Soft primers may flatten a little over that pressure, but harder primers will look fine at pressures that are too high for the gun. (Some people even use small rifle primers with this cartridge, and those certainly won't show pressur signs at the SAAMI pressure limit.)

Using a known soft type, like Federals, in your handloads might allow you to "read" pressure signs on your own primers (I don't know for sure, because I have not tried that in the 40 S&W). But, comparing them to primers in factory loads doesn't work, because you don't know how hard the factory primers are compared to your handload primers.

So, please stay within published, pressure-tested data and pay close attention to the cartridge overall length for the data you use, because that is a sensitive parameter for this cartridge.

SL1

bcline · May 2, 2008, 10:59 PM

I shoot with a .40 S&W SV40E sigma series. Not to bad a pistol but the trigger pull is tough. My firing pin does the same thing. Primers look ok to me and I use winchester primers to. Love to shoot this gun, along with my hogleg .44 ruger.

freakshow10mm · May 2, 2008, 11:08 PM

This is a flat primer.

May 2, 2008, 05:52 PM	#4
DWARREN123 Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2006 Location: BETWEEN TN & KY Posts: 1,758	Look good to me but I am half blind in my left eye and can't see good out of the right. GLOCK pistol? I like 7.3 to 7.5gr of Longshot for 165 to 180gr HP 40 S&W. Very clean and accurate. Check out the Hodgdon web site for load data. __________________ Have a nice day! Last edited by DWARREN123; May 3, 2008 at 03:22 AM.

May 2, 2008, 06:29 PM	#6
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Either we aren't looking at the same picture, or my eyes are playing tricks on me. What I'm seeing are three of the fired rounds which appear to have pierced primers, which is NOT good, will likely never be good. The primers on the ones that did not pierce don't look offensive to me-- a .40 S&W will have primers that look like a stiff load, as it's not a baby. I looked up the Accurate Powder website, and that data appears to be good for #2 powder and a 180 grain bullet, though the only 180 grainer they list is the Hornady XTP. (they do list a Ranier plated bullet at a lower load) Who made your bullets? If it were me, my next two steps would be an e-mail or phone call to Accurate Powder, and the same thing to the manufacturer of your bullet. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

May 2, 2008, 06:40 PM	#7
Jeffdg Member Join Date: April 25, 2008 Posts: 30	bullets They are Montana Gold 180 Gr. FMJ

May 2, 2008, 08:26 PM	#9
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,833	Firing pin groove? I guess that's a good a name as any. My Browing BDA .45 (early Sig P220) does this, with every round. Always has. Never been any problem, just lets me know which gun fired that particular empty! oh yeah, those primers look fine to me. When the curve around the edge of the primer cup goes away, and there is no "groove" between the primer and the brass, that is flattened! Time to back the load down a bit then. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

May 2, 2008, 05:26 PM	#3
dipper Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2008 Posts: 895	Don't look flattened to me. Dipper

May 2, 2008, 07:59 PM	#8
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,955	Sevens - I think your eyes are playing tricks on you. What you see as pierced primers appear to be firing pin grooves. The FP hasn't retracted as the case is being ejected and makes a groove for a short distance. That isn't uncommon and depends on the pistol design more than anything.

May 2, 2008, 08:44 PM	#10
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	No flattening whatsoever I can see.

May 2, 2008, 09:34 PM	#11
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	Looking for primer flattening won't protect you against high pressure in the 40 S&W. The max pressure for that cartridge is only 35,000 psi. Soft primers may flatten a little over that pressure, but harder primers will look fine at pressures that are too high for the gun. (Some people even use small rifle primers with this cartridge, and those certainly won't show pressur signs at the SAAMI pressure limit.) Using a known soft type, like Federals, in your handloads might allow you to "read" pressure signs on your own primers (I don't know for sure, because I have not tried that in the 40 S&W). But, comparing them to primers in factory loads doesn't work, because you don't know how hard the factory primers are compared to your handload primers. So, please stay within published, pressure-tested data and pay close attention to the cartridge overall length for the data you use, because that is a sensitive parameter for this cartridge. SL1

May 2, 2008, 10:59 PM	#12
bcline Junior Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Posts: 6	I shoot with a .40 S&W SV40E sigma series. Not to bad a pistol but the trigger pull is tough. My firing pin does the same thing. Primers look ok to me and I use winchester primers to. Love to shoot this gun, along with my hogleg .44 ruger.

May 2, 2008, 11:08 PM	#13
freakshow10mm Junior member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Location: MI Posts: 1,398	This is a flat primer.