Wearing it on the leg/thigh...

[raimius]

As with most things, it solves some problems and causes others.
Drop-let holsters get the firearm away from chest and belt-mounted gear. Thus, it is less likely to snag on the draw. If worn WAY down the leg, it can be drawn from a seated position (like in a vehicle).

There are problems too...
Running with a drop leg is less than pleasant. It gets worse the lower you wear the holster. Further, if you wear it very low, it causes problems with the draw stroke, as you have to lean over to draw!

A "mid-ride" holster that puts the grip even with or just below the belt is often a good compromise.

[WyMark]

Originally Posted by Frank Ettin

I'm sure you're aware that Louis L'Amour wrote fiction. He was born in 1908, and his first stories were published in the late 1930s.

I mention that so folks won't think you were being serious.

Yes, I'm aware. I'm pretty sure I've read every book he wrote, but it's possible I missed one or two. I started reading them when I was about 10, my Grandpa would buy the paperbacks and pass them on to me.

I joined the Army when I was 18 and chose Ft Carson, CO as my preferred duty station in large part to see the "west". Luckily for me I spent my entire 4 year (minus the first 5 months at Ft Knox for training) in Colorado. I spent nearly every free weekend of that 3.5 years driving around Colorado and nearby states to visit places that L'Amour had mentioned in his books. Towns, ghost towns, passes, mountains, rivers. In a few cases hotels/saloons that were still operating in the 1970's. You name it I would pick one and go there.

I would read and re-read passages and study maps for weeks to pinpoint a spot where William Tell Sackett or some other character had camped/recovered from a gunfight/hidden from the crooked sheriff, etc., then go and camp as close to that spot as I could reasonably estimate.

So, short story long, yes I'm aware he wrote fiction, and yes I was being facetious in my post. But not the part about Tye Sackett; if he hadn't tied down his holster he'd have died in a gunfight, and there would have been less novels.

[Don Fischer]

You guy's just don't get it. It's like a caution or yield sign!

[agtman]

Really? Do yu have some evidence?

Matt Dillon...

Paladin...

Rowdy Yates...

Maverick....

The Cartwright family.....

Sundance Kid....

The Magnificent Seven....

In the real world, the list would include more than a few Navy Seals and all the participants in that little dust-up at the O.K. Corral two centuries back.

[Screwball]

Originally Posted by agtman

In the real world, the list would include more than a few Navy Seals and all the participants in that little dust-up at the O.K. Corral two centuries back.

Wyatt Earp didn't carry his pistol in a holster during that shootout... but in a jacket pocket.

[kraigwy]

Matt Dillon...

Paladin...

Rowdy Yates...

Maverick....

The Cartwright family.....

Sundance Kid....

The Magnificent Seven

Those dudes wear their revolvers for a few minutes of the scene, not all day.

Having carried a heavy revolver (Model 28 Smith) 10-12 hours a day for 20 years, I can tell you a loose belt, down on the hip would give you hip pain you wouldnt believe.

No real gunman would carry a heavy revolver like that. I want my duty belt tight, around the waste.

As to the drop leg military carry you have today, I can't say much about. In my 25 years in the Military (Regular Army and NG) I carried a pistol (M1911a1) a lot. In peace time it was in a tanker style shoulder holster. When I carried one as a grunt in Vietnam it was on my ruck.

[T. O'Heir]

"...Gunfighters have been wearing them..." Only in Hollywood. Arvo Ojala invented the Hollywood Fast Draw Holster in the mid 50's.
And "with legs straight" is correct.

[James K]

I have carried a gun a lot, and ridden a horse a little (OK, as little as possible - it beats walking) and it seems to me that people who did both did not carry the gun so it would fall out of the holster when mounting the horse. Tying the holster down adds more problems as do various straps, loops, and thongs (no, not that kind)*.

That is the reason, I suspect, why the low-slung holster was unheard of until the advent of the "new" movie cowboy around 1950. Ojala and others were showmen and stuntmen, and trained a generation of actors in their techniques, which were for show, not the real world. Earlier movie Westerns featured at least some actors who really were old timers (e.g., the real Tom Mix) and they show a wholly different style.

FWIW, the only actor I thought carried a gun like he knew how to use it was John Wayne, and he carried it high behind the right hip.

*Doesn't have to be a horse. I knew a man who had carried a Ruger .44 (old type) full up in a low slung holster; all was fine until he forgot to set the hammer loop when he got into his pickup truck. The gun fell out of the holster, landed on the hammer, and put a slug up through his inner thigh, barely missing some sensitive places. He still walked with a limp when I knew him years later.

Jim

[johnwilliamson062]

That is the reason, I suspect, why the low-slung holster was unheard of until the advent of the "new" movie cowboy around 1950.

Only in Hollywood. Arvo Ojala invented the Hollywood Fast Draw Holster in the mid 50's.

Unheard of? I have already posted a picture of a gunfighter using a low holster from 70 years earlier.

Studios don't buy new props for every movie. The old studios had their own prop departments and now they rent them from the same sources. In the 1920s someone had a bunch of these holsters made up for a movie and they got recycled in movies for the next 20 years or so, at least in what the extras were using.

The buscadero rig pre-dates its advent in western movies and was not uncommon in the southwest at the time it showed up in movies. Most popular, how common, etc., fine, argue it. Hollywood did not think it up in 1950 or even 1920.

Straight leg correct... When someone with their legs straight wins even a local service rifle match I'll be on board with that
correct(mostly)
Straight legged is due to a number of compromises.

One of the major negatives then was the same as today. You can't conceal it. Most were concealing their firearms then as now.

[johnwilliamson062]

Wyatt Earp Dodge City ~1890 Not a buscadero, but low slanting down from left to right.

Frank Smith and Wyatt Earp didn't use buscadero rigs, but both wore pistols low with a strong slant of the belt to achieve a similar effect. The position they carry at is not far off from where I have my thigh rig when I have used it(rare). You can see others in these photos:
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/ind...?topic=20372.0

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...act=mrc&uact=8

All photos which pre-date hollywood westerns.

Furthermore, although very few hear wear body armor on a daily basis, from photos I have seen plenty of members, some commenting here, come with organic bulk far exceeding a plate carrier and could well benefit from a thigh rig

[Arizona Fusilier]

Actually, I thought that the "culprit" of the modern drop-leg holster was the rappelling harness. You know, SWAT types coming down the side of the building, needing to cap someone through the window or whatnot.

Body armor could be a partial excuse, although most modern set-up's I have seen are integrated with molle attachments and the like. A more reasonable cross-draw seems to be more widely available.....the need for the drop-leg seems to be diminishing.

Except for mall ninjas and reenactors.

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by johnwilliamson062

Unheard of? I have already posted a picture of a gunfighter using a low holster from 70 years earlier.....

Well let's look at that photo more closely.

Perry Owens is wearing his handgun cross-draw low on his body on a belt under a cartridge belt holding cartridges for the single shot rifle he is holding in his right hand. One possible inference from that arrangement is that he considers access to the rifle cartridges a priority and is wearing his handgun low to make the rifle cartridges handier.

Originally Posted by johnwilliamson062

...The buscadero rig pre-dates its advent in western movies and was not uncommon in the southwest at the time it showed up in movies....

Evidence? So far you haven't show us a single photo from the 19th Century with someone carrying a handgun in a buscadero rig.

Originally Posted by johnwilliamson062

Wyatt Earp Dodge City ~1890 Not a buscadero, but low slanting down from left to right.

Frank Smith and Wyatt Earp didn't use buscadero rigs, but both wore pistols low with a strong slant of the belt to achieve a similar effect. The position they carry at is not far off from where I have my thigh rig when I have used it(rare). You can see others in these photos:
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/ind...?topic=20372.0

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...act=mrc&uact=8

All photos which pre-date hollywood westerns....

And none show anyone with a buscadero holster. And none of the photos show the gun being worn on the leg or thigh like a modern, tactical thigh holster.

In this series of photos, almost all the handguns are being carried crossdraw at waist level. Even when the gun is worn slightly low, the butt of the gun is about midline, or a bit higher, on the forearm when the arm is hanging straight down.

Also, in general in the 19th Century (and roughly the first half of the 20th Century) men's trousers were worn higher on the torso than they are today.

[johnwilliamson062]

One possible inference from that arrangement is that he considers access to the rifle cartridges a priority and is wearing his handgun low to make the rifle cartridges handier.

So, we are in agreement a gunfighter was using a low holster approximately 40 years before hollywood first showed their use, and he was not doing it because of body armor? Pretty much every scenario in which I would wear a thigh rig also involves a long gun. For starters it requires a situation where concealment is not a possible issue.

It may not technically be a buscadero, unless you are arguing a cross-draw can't be a buscadero. My understanding is the buscadero aspect is the fashion in which the belt drops with a loop. There are cross-draw buscaderos marketed and they are certainly shown in popular culture. The buscadero/Hollywood argument is somewhat of a tangent. The picture isn't clear enough but it is pretty close and exactly what type of holster it is is somewhat irrelevant as the core of this is whether they were worn low or not. Exactly how they got low is somewhat irrelevant.

Wearing the pants high can only go one way. If that is the explanation for why those pistols appear to hang low then the other pistols you linked must be up really really high. Why were some wearing their pistols 3-4 inches higher than we do today?

The way I am suggesting a modern take be worn is close to:
https://spetzgear.com/COLOR-HOLSTER-DROPLEG-LIGHT
Maybe an inch or two lower depending where your hand falls at your side. A couple inches lower than what one usually finds belt/hip holsters. Just low enough that attachment at the belt only is going to leave it flopping quite a bit.
NOT as low or close to the knee as one can get it, which is commonly seen, but I am not advocating.
I don't know what is going on here.

I can tell you a loose belt

Why is the belt loose? Besides, the attachment on my thigh is tight and holds part of the weight.

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by johnwilliamson062

So, we are in agreement a gunfighter was using a low holster approximately 40 years before hollywood first showed their use, and he was not doing it because of body armor?....

Nah.

It appears to me that Owens is trading ease of access to his handgun for easier accommodation of other gear. That's the same reason that today military and LEOs use thigh holsters -- to accommodate other gear like body armor, equipment laden vests, mountaineering tackle, etc.

Back in post 4 you implied that gunfighter carried their handguns law because it was a more efficient way to manage a handgun. That doesn't seem to be the case with Owens.

Originally Posted by johnwilliamson062

...It may not technically be a buscadero,...

And now you want to redefine "buscadero."

Originally Posted by johnwilliamson062

....Wearing the pants high can only go one way. If that is the explanation for why those pistols appear to hang low then the other pistols you linked must be up really really high.....

Nonetheless, it is a fact that in men's trousers were generally made higher waisted at the time. This was due in part to the fashion of wearing a vest and the preference for suspenders over belts. But note the modifier "generally." The point is that when assessing where a gun is worn one must also consider where the waistband of the trousers is on the body.

Originally Posted by johnwilliamson062

..The way I am suggesting a modern take be worn is close to:https://spetzgear.com/COLOR-HOLSTER-DROPLEG-LIGHT
Maybe an inch or two lower depending where your hand falls at your side....

Feel free to suggest, and I'll happily ignore your suggestions. I'm not aware of any recognized instructor who recommends carrying a handgun that way as a general practice -- absent a need to accommodate special equipment needs or particular situations.

[OldMarksman]

So, we are in agreement a gunfighter was using a low holster approximately 40 years before hollywood first showed their use, .....

Not at all--not from those pictures, anyway,

The guns are worn at or near hip level, far above the knees, with the grips level with or higher than the groin.

They may appear low, but only be because the pants are worn so high in the pictures.

Frank Smith and Wyatt Earp didn't use buscadero rigs, but both wore pistols low with a strong slant of the belt to achieve a similar effect.

The later buscadero rigs worn in screen fiction were often worn with a similar plant (depending upon the character image desired), and thy also had holders that were suspended well below the gunbelts per se.

Here's an example.

But we digress. The original question was about the use of modern leg/thigh holsters.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....SR240,320_.jpg

If any such thing ever existed in the "old west", it was far from common.

[skifast]

Thigh rigs that are worn just below the waist work well. If they are lower, then they are not ideal. Here is a good video about tactical/duty holsters by a USAF SO guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXFVe-2yXhY

[johnelmore]

Ok this is a good answer a few posts above. Its ideal for a driver or someone who works primarily from a vehicle...i.e. armored car guard. Someone who might need to draw from a vehicle.

[Frank Ettin]

The OP has his answer.