The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Bolt, Lever, and Pump Action

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 16, 2022, 07:54 PM   #101
mehavey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 17, 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 6,886
Again, once things quit snowing/warm up a tad, I run this one out to 200.


https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...&postcount=138
mehavey is offline  
Old January 23, 2022, 04:55 PM   #102
mehavey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 17, 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 6,886
OK, ran it out to FXRGC today (38° was as good at was going to get.)

WIN XPR* (I cheated w/ its 22" barrel) and the standard Speer 180FP/Norma-200 loadout.

Ran one target at 100 to re-adjust zero to hit high at 100 by 3-4"

Then ran another target for group -- first at that 100,
then moved same target out to 200 for 2nd impact point



Coupla Notes:
That XPR is very light. It does not like a bag rest (horizontal dispersion)
Bag it, but firm forearm hold.

Afterwards on a whim, I pulled out some Commercial Winchester 180gr 'PowerPoint'
(just plain ol' soft point w/ a fancy name) and fired 3 rounds before I left the 200 yd
line and called it a day

It grouped just under 2" -- and overlaid the Speer impact point.




* I had Sandy Garrett bed it. (So cheat #2)

Last edited by mehavey; January 23, 2022 at 05:02 PM.
mehavey is offline  
Old January 24, 2022, 02:58 AM   #103
stagpanther
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2014
Posts: 11,777
I can see with adjustments of your scope's zero you can get that MPBR; and what I call MPBR is restricted by what I consider is maximum PBR. I personally do not think the velocity, energy and bullet drop characteristics make the legend an effective big-game cartridge beyond 150 yds--if that.
__________________
"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill
I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!
stagpanther is offline  
Old January 24, 2022, 06:43 AM   #104
mehavey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 17, 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 6,886
That's why I made (make) no comment beyond showing the data.
`Tis up to the user at that point as to sufficiency.

mehavey is offline  
Old May 29, 2023, 01:15 PM   #105
rickt300
Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 2017
Posts: 83
All the hemming and hawing over the round being a 200 yard deer round, why? The vast majority of deer are killed inside of that. In fact where I hunt 150 yards of open enough to shoot is a rare occurrence. I have used my AR in 350 legend for gun chores and deer hunting last fall and this spring. It's a pretty solid gun when it comes to feral hogs at night. Might be a bit much for killing hogs in traps. After loading and shooting some 400 rounds I like the round. Don't see a downside in any way.
rickt300 is offline  
Old May 29, 2023, 03:31 PM   #106
MarkCO
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 1998
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 4,307
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickt300 View Post
All the hemming and hawing over the round being a 200 yard deer round, why? The vast majority of deer are killed inside of that. In fact where I hunt 150 yards of open enough to shoot is a rare occurrence. I have used my AR in 350 legend for gun chores and deer hunting last fall and this spring. It's a pretty solid gun when it comes to feral hogs at night. Might be a bit much for killing hogs in traps. After loading and shooting some 400 rounds I like the round. Don't see a downside in any way.
Yep. I have cleanly killed Deer with my long range match rifle at every 100 yards out to 1000. BUT, the vast majority of my Deer have been taking inside 150 yards with handguns, archery, black powder, and lever actions. I've had Deer step over my legs and had to wait until they got about 100 yards away to move so I would not spook them.

Frankly, I prefer to use my .41 Magnum, .414 SuperMag and .35 Remington for deer.
__________________
Good Shooting, MarkCO
www.CarbonArms.us
MarkCO is offline  
Old May 30, 2023, 09:22 PM   #107
USAF Ret
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 8, 2017
Posts: 809
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkCO View Post
Yep. I have cleanly killed Deer with my long range match rifle at every 100 yards out to 1000. BUT, the vast majority of my Deer have been taking inside 150 yards with handguns, archery, black powder, and lever actions. I've had Deer step over my legs and had to wait until they got about 100 yards away to move so I would not spook them.

Frankly, I prefer to use my .41 Magnum, .414 SuperMag and .35 Remington for deer.
I have always wanted a 41 Magnum in a Ruger Super Blackhawk. How hard are the bullets, brass and dies to find?

EDIT - Never mind Mark, answered my own question. Available and inexpensive. I said I don't need another...but.

Last edited by USAF Ret; May 30, 2023 at 09:30 PM.
USAF Ret is offline  
Old May 30, 2023, 10:47 PM   #108
MarkCO
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 1998
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 4,307
A Super Blackhawk is what ignited my love of the .41 Magnum.
__________________
Good Shooting, MarkCO
www.CarbonArms.us
MarkCO is offline  
Old May 31, 2023, 01:55 AM   #109
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,824
Quote:
Tell me what you think ...350 Legend hunting rifle
What I think is that its a .35 Reminton in a different suit, one that can be "worn" in states that require straight wall cases 1.8" long, or less for deer.

If you don't live/hunt in those places, I see no point to it. And, I am amazed at some people touting it as a 200yd or further round, when that was never the case with the .35 Rem.

And I think Winchester choose their profit margin over convenience for reloaders by using the .355" diameter rather than the common rifle .358" bore size.

I think the old joke about "How do you make the .35Rem a 200-250yd deer and elk round?"

"Put it in a Contender pistol!!"

May also apply to the .350 Legend....
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old May 31, 2023, 05:19 AM   #110
jetinteriorguy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 28, 2013
Posts: 3,173
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAF Ret View Post
I have always wanted a 41 Magnum in a Ruger Super Blackhawk. How hard are the bullets, brass and dies to find?

EDIT - Never mind Mark, answered my own question. Available and inexpensive. I said I don't need another...but.
Starline makes brass for the .41 mag and it’s available fairly regularly. You can get Lee dies anytime from Titan, and for crimping you can request a custom collet crimp die from them for a pretty reasonable price.
jetinteriorguy is offline  
Old May 31, 2023, 07:38 AM   #111
stagpanther
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2014
Posts: 11,777
I have a regular new model blackhawk in 41 mag--I remember when I went through my 41 mag infatuation period many years ago even then the super blackhawks in 41 mag were very hard to find and usually done in periodic small batch releases. Be prepared to spend boocoo bucks to get one. handloading for it, like 44 mag, is very easy.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_9158.jpg (220.5 KB, 169 views)
__________________
"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill
I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!
stagpanther is offline  
Old May 31, 2023, 09:45 AM   #112
USAF Ret
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 8, 2017
Posts: 809
Quote:
Originally Posted by stagpanther View Post
I have a regular new model blackhawk in 41 mag--I remember when I went through my 41 mag infatuation period many years ago even then the super blackhawks in 41 mag were very hard to find and usually done in periodic small batch releases. Be prepared to spend boocoo bucks to get one. handloading for it, like 44 mag, is very easy.

An there you go tempting me. I was looking at prices last night. New Blackhawk in 41 runs about mid-$700. Not a Super Blackhawk. I have other projects and things I am doing, but keeping it on my radar.
USAF Ret is offline  
Old May 31, 2023, 09:47 AM   #113
USAF Ret
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 8, 2017
Posts: 809
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkCO View Post
A Super Blackhawk is what ignited my love of the .41 Magnum.
I had a 44 in AK with wood grips. Not much fun to shoot and for the purpose I bought it for, might was well try to beat a bear with the butt. I always wanted to try the 41. I had a 357 Blackhawk when I was younger and loved it. 41 is good middle ground.
USAF Ret is offline  
Old May 31, 2023, 10:33 AM   #114
stagpanther
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2014
Posts: 11,777
This is the very gun I was asked by the film crew of a popular history TV series (which will go nameless for liability's sake) to point right at the lead camera man at the end of filming. I refused, even though I knew it was empty of rounds. Bit of an argument ensued but I still refused. The episode never aired as far as I know (hint hint Alec).

Did my own trigger job and it has a very nice trigger pull--but to be honest I think I was lucky I didn't botch it, it has a pretty complicated assembly which has to go together just right.
__________________
"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill
I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!

Last edited by stagpanther; May 31, 2023 at 10:45 AM.
stagpanther is offline  
Old May 31, 2023, 01:03 PM   #115
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,824
If you are talking about a Ruger Blachawk new model I don't think the mechanism is complicated. And, EVERY gun has to go together "just right" now doesn't it??

Either way, until someone chambers a Blackhawk in .350 Legend, its off topic in this thread.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old May 31, 2023, 03:26 PM   #116
jetinteriorguy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 28, 2013
Posts: 3,173
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAF Ret View Post
An there you go tempting me. I was looking at prices last night. New Blackhawk in 41 runs about mid-$700. Not a Super Blackhawk. I have other projects and things I am doing, but keeping it on my radar.
This was my first .41 mag, I traded it in on my 6” Model 57 no dash and still have it today after 38 years. I’ve also added a 4” model 57 and a Henry BBS.
jetinteriorguy is offline  
Old May 31, 2023, 06:42 PM   #117
USAF Ret
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 8, 2017
Posts: 809
Quote:
Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post
If you are talking about a Ruger Blachawk new model I don't think the mechanism is complicated. And, EVERY gun has to go together "just right" now doesn't it??

Either way, until someone chambers a Blackhawk in .350 Legend, its off topic in this thread.
Sorry for the rabbit trail. Mark mentioned 41 Magnum for hunting.
USAF Ret is offline  
Old June 1, 2023, 07:33 PM   #118
Scorch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2006
Location: Washington state
Posts: 15,248
My question would be "do you want something barely adequate or do you want something capable"?
__________________
Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs.
But what do I know?
Summit Arms Services
Scorch is offline  
Old June 1, 2023, 08:59 PM   #119
mehavey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 17, 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 6,886
Quote:
"do you want something barely adequate or do you want something capable"?
It all depends on whether you believe a 180gr 357Mag chest-shot
at contact velocities -- at 200 yards -- is adequate.
mehavey is offline  
Old June 2, 2023, 12:43 PM   #120
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,824
Quote:
"do you want something barely adequate or do you want something capable"?

Anything adequate to do a specific function (even if barely) must be capable.

__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old June 3, 2023, 05:40 PM   #121
Scorch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2006
Location: Washington state
Posts: 15,248
Quote:
It all depends on whether you believe a 180gr 357Mag chest-shot
at contact velocities -- at 200 yards -- is adequate.
OK, 774 fpe at 200 yds is adequate for deer sized animals, but just. Also, trajectory with that load is remarkably unremarkable. I'm just saying that unless you HAVE TO use a straight-walled cartridge, there are better options available for hunting.
Quote:
Anything adequate to do a specific function (even if barely) must be capable.
Not necessarily. I rememberas a youngster reading about the guy who collected animals in Africa for the Smithsonian Museum. He collected over 1,000 specimens, up to and including elephant, using a 22LR. Now, adequate? No doubt. He had the animals to prove it was adequate. Capable? Most people do not have the marksmanship levels to repeat the event. Karamojo Bell shot hundreds of elephants using 6.5X54, 7X57, 303 British, and other cartridges that would be considered underpowered for the task. Again, skill allowed him to perform these feas and walk away. Most people need a little more than just barely adequate.
__________________
Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs.
But what do I know?
Summit Arms Services

Last edited by Scorch; June 3, 2023 at 05:47 PM.
Scorch is offline  
Old June 3, 2023, 05:49 PM   #122
mehavey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 17, 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 6,886
I woukld still pose that a contact heavy 357Mag directly into the heart-lung is an effective White Tail stopper.
and ± 3½" point blank out to 200 "ain't bad" in that regard.

fpe is interesting for cracker-barrel discussion -- and yes a nifty 150gr/30-06/starting at 3,000fps would
be nice -- but will anyone seriously say that 357 contact kill-shot isn't 'good-enuf' ?
mehavey is offline  
Old June 3, 2023, 06:14 PM   #123
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,824
Quote:
Most people need a little more than just barely adequate.
adequate
satisfactory or acceptable in quality or quantity

capable
having the ability, fitness, or quality necessary to do or achieve a specified thing

adequate is a value judgement. Your, or my opinion. And our opinions about what is adequate for any specific task can vary significantly.

Capable is a factual observation. It has nothing to do with opinion.

Someone might consider something capable of a specific task to be inadequate, that's their opinion.

I cannot think of an example where something considered adequate would not be capable, but then, there are people who think differently than I do.

The fact that Bell did what he did with what he used is conclusive proof of capable. But, for most people it would not be considered adequate.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old June 4, 2023, 12:41 AM   #124
stagpanther
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2014
Posts: 11,777
To me the word "capable" definitely carries a connotation of efficacy. IIRC, mehavy's load is a 180 gr bonded .358 hotcor swaged down to .356 and fired through the legend's .355 bore. I've had a 350 legend AR blow up on me and is a admittedly a factor in my not being enamored to it.
__________________
"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill
I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!
stagpanther is offline  
Old June 4, 2023, 05:34 AM   #125
mehavey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 17, 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 6,886
Quote:
I've had a 350 legend AR blow up on me ...
Definitely puts on off one's feed.

Something about the AR extraction timing associated w/ Lil`Gun (and like powders) is going on w/ the 350. Using thicker-based Win brass mitigates the possibility, and no issues at all in either bolt guns or the AR BeoWooof....

But something is going on with Lil-Gun/AR/350 LGD.
YMMV... Take care there if/when reloading *
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That said, note that the 180 Speer Hot-Cor results were duplicated w/ standard...
Quote:
...commercial Winchester 180gr 'PowerPoint' (just plain ol' soft point w/ a fancy name)
and fired 3 rounds before I left the 200 yd line and called it a day

It grouped just under 2" -- and overlaid the Speer impact point.
(Post 102)



* Also... pay attention to case length growth -- big time.
Headspacing on the mouth of a high-pressure rimless/straightwall cases is serious business.

Last edited by mehavey; June 4, 2023 at 07:07 AM.
mehavey is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.09655 seconds with 9 queries