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Old August 14, 2017, 07:42 PM   #1
onthehunt
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Wolf Ammo Advisory For M&P 15

Was on the Wolf Ammo site and came across this... and I have a M&P 15 and Wolf ammo..

*** Advisory Warning - June 8, 2017 ***
WOLF Performance Ammunition has received notifications relating to Smith & Wesson M&P-15 rifles that are discharging out of battery which is evidenced by a lack of damage to the chamber and barrel extension. This shows that the rifle’s bolt did not lock into the barrel, yet the hammer was still able to strike the firing pin to detonate the cartridge and cause a failure.


These failures can cause major damage to the firearm and bodily injury. As a result, WOLF Ammunition does NOT recommend using our ammunition with any Smith and Wesson M&P-15 rifles until this issue is resolved. Moving forward, WOLF’s 100% Performance Guarantee will not cover any damages associated with Smith & Wesson M&P 15 rifle or rifle created failures exhibiting the above described characteristics.
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Old August 15, 2017, 01:36 PM   #2
rickyrick
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What a scary situation. I'm always afraid of an out of battery event.

Does anyone know if a steel cased cartridge explodes with more force than a brass cartridge?
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Old August 15, 2017, 02:10 PM   #3
Bartholomew Roberts
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Why would out of battery discharges be limited to the M&P15 and Wolf ammo? The rifle design and ammo are both quote common. Why is Wolf naming the M&P15 only?
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Old August 15, 2017, 02:26 PM   #4
rickyrick
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And that was kinda my second question.
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Old August 15, 2017, 02:45 PM   #5
zukiphile
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BR
Why would out of battery discharges be limited to the M&P15 and Wolf ammo? The rifle design and ammo are both quote common. Why is Wolf naming the M&P15 only?
Indeed.

The 15-22 either is or was prohibited from some Appleseed events because of OOB events, even though it doesn't seem to differ in any important way from a bunch of other semi-automatic 22lrs, just as the S&W AR15 is just an AR15.

Odd.
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Old August 15, 2017, 03:07 PM   #6
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I think they are alleging a defect in design, materials, or workmanship without actually making that statement
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Old August 15, 2017, 04:17 PM   #7
JoeSixpack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartholomew Roberts View Post
Why would out of battery discharges be limited to the M&P15 and Wolf ammo? The rifle design and ammo are both quote common. Why is Wolf naming the M&P15 only?
Ya makes ya wonder.. Additionally steel ammo specific or not, sure seems like a lot of problems with steel cased stuff.

but its cheaper so people keep scarfing it up.
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Old August 16, 2017, 11:40 AM   #8
Fishbed77
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My guess is that one person had an out of battery event with a M&P-15, and this is a CYA measure by Wolf.
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Old August 16, 2017, 12:10 PM   #9
rickyrick
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I would think if you had problems with one reputable AR manufacturer then you'd have problems in others as well.
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Old August 18, 2017, 04:26 AM   #10
Ibmikey
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Shoot brass in an AR and leave the rod home used to punch out stuck cases. S&W builds their products to the same industry specifications as other manufacturers, Wolf should expand their warning to explain why this one manufacturer is singled out from the remainder.
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Old August 18, 2017, 06:53 AM   #11
wild cat mccane
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Actually, those two paragraphs don't tell you if it's their steel, brass, or both cases.

Wolf sells the cheapest and good brass 223. I've got 1000s.
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Old August 18, 2017, 07:41 AM   #12
ed308
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I recently had a out of battery discharge on my side charging 3 Gun AR. It was caused by a high primer on a 5.56 round with Lake City brass. I knew the primer was high and had meant to ease the bolt down then fire the round. But in a moment of complete stupidity, I pulled the charging handle back and let it go. Didn't think it did much damage at first, just had a stuck case that I couldn't get out. It blew with about 1/5 of the case out of the chamber. Later I discovered the barrel had rotated around 1/4" and sheared off the bolt extension pin. I was lucky. Learn a lesson. Won't be firing high primers again or trying push the primers in of loaded rounds on my reloading press.

Fortunately, the barrel manufacturer is going to replace the pin for me. If not, the barrel would be toast since your can't really replace the barrel extension on a completed AR barrel.
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Old August 18, 2017, 08:15 AM   #13
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It is interesting that they do not say what Wolf ammo is the problem. Steel cased Wolf is made by Tula. The brass cased ammo is made in Taiwan.

Anyone know which they are referring to?
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Old August 18, 2017, 09:17 AM   #14
Independent George
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I really want a mechanical explanation of why one particular rifle is singled out. Unless the M&P has some parts seriously out of spec, I don't see how it's even possible.

In the absence of that specific information (or details on which type if wolf ammo had thd discharge), I'm inclined to believe it's a generic CYA to lay blame on the rifle manufacturer until they figure out exactly what happened. That may change as more facts come in, but right now we just don't have the relevant information.

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Old August 18, 2017, 10:51 AM   #15
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Quote:
But in a moment of complete stupidity,
I think that statement should read "But in a SECOND moment of complete stupidity..."



Just out of curiosity, did you load the round on a progressive press???
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Old August 18, 2017, 03:32 PM   #16
wild cat mccane
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No response from Wolf from their facebook page message.
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Old August 18, 2017, 05:15 PM   #17
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Quote:
ed308 wrote:
...trying push the primers in of loaded rounds on my reloading press.
Why would you reach this conclusion from your experience with the rifle? Primers are not ignited by pressure, but by shock. Unless you slap your press handle down suddenly and forcefully reseating a high primer on your press is no more likely to cause it to discharge than it was when you first put it in.
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Old August 18, 2017, 05:34 PM   #18
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Quote:
onthehunt wrote:
Was on the Wolf Ammo site and came across this.
Can you provide the URL for this advisory?
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Old August 18, 2017, 05:39 PM   #19
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Check HERE for the warning from Wolf.

The problem is the rifle fires the cases while out of battery. It sounds like there is a problem with the specific firearm and not the ammo. The warning is not limited to their steel cased ammo.
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Old August 18, 2017, 05:41 PM   #20
rickyrick
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It's on Wolf's website,

http://wolfammo.com/advisory.aspx

It says it's wolf performance ammunition. I don't know if all of it is performance ammunition as they call it or a specific product.

Interestingly enough, they're peddling uppers.
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Old August 18, 2017, 05:42 PM   #21
rickyrick
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Oops, too slow
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Old August 18, 2017, 05:43 PM   #22
ShootistPRS
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Not by much!
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Old August 18, 2017, 06:23 PM   #23
WVsig
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This is a quote from the S&W forum. One of the moderators in the M&P 15 section of the forum called Wolf. This is what they said.

Quote:
Talked to James at Wolf CS.

James says it's specific to the M&P 15. He said with all .223 Wolf sells they will usually get a couple reports total per year regarding out of battery discharge for all brands of rifles. But this year they have had seven out of battery reports with the M&P 15. James said it includes both steel and brass cased ammo. So... with the unusually high OOB reports they posted the advisory warning.
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Last edited by WVsig; August 19, 2017 at 09:08 AM.
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Old August 19, 2017, 08:40 AM   #24
wild cat mccane
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They going to buy back their ammo or should I use this as a credit card dispute.
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Old August 19, 2017, 09:06 AM   #25
WVsig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wild cat mccane View Post
They going to buy back their ammo or should I use this as a credit card dispute.
I do not believe that it is the ammo. If your AR15 has a undamaged milspec bolt there is no way for the OOB firing to occur in the AR15 platform. This was pointed out on the S&W forum.

Quote:
No, it doesn't. If you have a milspec AR 15 pull your carrier out and try. If it is the correct dimensions for all the parts it the firing pin by design CANNOT extend past the bolt face until the carrier is fully in battery.

Ned Christiansen did a cutaway to illustrate the fact. That bolt is locked into the lugs but the carrier is still slightly OOB.


So I do not believe you are going to be getting any $$$ back from Wolf and you will lose your CC dispute because 100% of all ammo sales by retailers are no refund type of sales. Unless you have an out of spec BCG shoot the ammo and enjoy.
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