Ammo re-assembly

ncrypt · January 2, 2014, 10:20 AM

I decided to reduce the load in a few rounds. When you guys have to take a round apart, is there any need to re-size the neck again or will the neck tension be ok to just put it back together?

thanks

tangolima · January 2, 2014, 10:52 AM

I use kinetic puller to pull the bullets. Dump the powder. Resize the neck. Recharge the powder and reseat the bullets.

-TL

Bart B. · January 2, 2014, 11:07 AM

Many folks have pulled bullets from military match ammo then replaced them with commercial match bullets. No resizing whatsoever. Accuracy was much better. And the ammo fed just as reliably in semiauto's, too.

Normally, one doesn't need to resize the case neck unless the new bullet's smaller in diameter than the original one.

tangolima · January 2, 2014, 11:50 AM

I tried that without resizing the neck. The bullet was too loose to my liking. It wasn't military round. Possibly the rounds had been sized with Lee collet die, and didn't have a lot of neck tension to begin with.

Anyway I always resize the neck when I reseat the bullet.

-TL

ncrypt · January 3, 2014, 03:18 PM

thanks guys.

How do you resize the neck without removing the primer? On my resizing die - Can I just move the primer pin up in the collet so it doesn't hit the new primer? I also have a neck resizing die that I guess I could use.

Mike / Tx · January 3, 2014, 08:15 PM

I've pulled a ton of milsurp fmj '06's and loaded a 150 or 165gr Spitzer back in them. I usually just pulled the priming pin out and neck sized them down about 2/3 of the neck length before seating the new bullets.

I only do that so I know I DO have good tension. With some of the older loaded rounds you also have to take a bronze brush or some tolulene and clean out the tar sealer as well or you sometimes get a weird seated bullet.

ncrypt · January 4, 2014, 06:47 PM

thanks Mike, but with my Lee dies, the primer remover pin looks to have an enlarged area that helps resize the neck? I don't think it will resize the neck if I remove it? Any thoughts?

Lost Sheep · January 5, 2014, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncrypt

thanks Mike, but with my Lee dies, the primer remover pin looks to have an enlarged area that helps resize the neck? I don't think it will resize the neck if I remove it? Any thoughts?

I believe you can remove just the pin. The mandrel (the thing with the bulgy part-properly called an expanding button, I think) that sizes the inside of the neck is essential.

The sizing die squishes the neck down just a bit too far (necessarily so because the die makers do not know the thickness of the neck brass). The expanding button makes the INSIDE of the neck just the right size to friction-grip your bullet.

leefan · January 5, 2014, 06:12 PM

When I do that I punch the primer and resize. Otherwise you have erratic bullet seating and OAL's.

ncrypt · January 9, 2014, 05:57 AM

How do you punch a live primer safely?

Sure Shot Mc Gee · January 9, 2014, 08:05 AM

So long as the de-capping pin and stem are straight and centered in the die's bore you shouldn't encounter any problems. I would suggest you look at your first primer removed in such a way. See if indeed the de-capping pin has centered on the primers anvil. Just go slow at it and have something to shield your eyes on i.e. put on some sort of safety glass's before attempting.

Lost Sheep · January 10, 2014, 01:15 AM

If you want to re-size, re-charge, whatever, there is no need to remove the live primer.

I know of no primer punch pin that cannot be removed.

Lost Sheep

shooterbob · January 10, 2014, 02:18 AM

Don't try to remove a live primer...if nothing else, remove the powder and bullet and fireform them like blanks to pop the primer. Then deprime normally. Like they stated unless you remove the depriming pin your going to set off the primer when you try to deprime.

Metal god · January 10, 2014, 02:55 AM

IMO - It's a feel thing . I've double seated cases a few times with out any issue . I did it on purpose because I felt I was getting to much bullet hold and I thought I'd try seating the bullets twice . It did not seem to do anything good or bad for the few I did . Maybe 40 rounds .

If you have seated enough bullets you start to feel how tight the neck tension is every time you seat the bullet . I have not been loading long but I think I have a good idea when I have the good neck tension by the feel of the press as I seat the bullet . Every now and again I seat a bullet that feels like ? Well like nothing when seated , kinda like I could have just pushed in with my fingers it was so light . I use bushing sizing dies now and when that happens I pull the bullet and neck size .001 smaller . GTG -I then mark the case with a Sharpe so I know for the next load cycle there is an issue with that neck .

My point is I'd try to seat a few bullets first If you feel some resistance when seating for the second time . There most likely going to be fine . If they seat like mush and you cant even tell you seated the bullet . you will need to at least neck size the cases .

Scimmia · January 10, 2014, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Don't try to remove a live primer...if nothing else, remove the powder and bullet and fireform them like blanks to pop the primer. Then deprime normally. Like they stated unless you remove the depriming pin your going to set off the primer when you try to deprime.

No, you're not. Slow, steady pressure will not set off a primer. Many (most?) of us here have deprimed live primers without any problem. Wasting primers like you suggest does nothing.

5whiskey · January 10, 2014, 11:10 AM

I second that you can deprime a live primer. I don't do it just for fun or anything, but if I need to fix an oops then I will and have never had an issue. I usually go pretty slow and look away, but I'm certainly not afraid of it. It actually takes a lot to set a primer off (although Lee apparently found a way to set Federal primers off with their old hand primer).

shooterbob · January 13, 2014, 12:42 AM

I agree that its doable, but is it even worth the chance of setting off a primer that's 2 cents? If someone doesnt know the process and how much weight and speed to do so, I wouldn't recommend telling them its ok to do so. Just my two cents lol

Chili Palmer · January 13, 2014, 07:19 PM

I've de-primed many a live primer. Put the safety glasses on and did it nice and easy. No problemo.

Here's why every bench should have a single stage press!

cdoc42 · January 13, 2014, 09:23 PM

I've also deprimed a live primer without any problems. Agree go very slow and just ease it out. To be safe I cover the entire press after setting the case in the holder with two old bath hand towels just in case. If you're really nervous about it, take the primer punch pin out of the die, b ut that's a lot of trouble if you only have one case to fix.

shooterbob · January 13, 2014, 10:14 PM

X2 on having the single stage.. it would make it a lot easier for that vs progressive.

Texascoonhunter · January 13, 2014, 10:36 PM

You might just as well pull the de-primer pin out and resize the case after you have pull the bullet and powder. Then reload the powder and seat the bullet to proper depth. After you get all cases worked up and reloaded, then go back and crimp the bullet slightly. This will hold the bullet in place and function very well. The neck should not stretch from removing the bullet and need resizing.

ncrypt · January 15, 2014, 05:32 PM

Thanks guys, I'm taking apart these rounds, but I am concerned that removing the decapper pin is a bad idea since it's considered an expander as well. I'm worried that without the pin, the neck will be resized again and then not expanded on the way out causing additional neck tension on the bullet and additional pressure. Any thoughts?

cosh · January 15, 2014, 06:49 PM

If you are using a Lee die, yes the neck expander comes out with the depriming pin. If RCBS and others, you can remove the pin from the neck expander. Reinstall the expander without the pin. It will expand the neck to the proper dimension.

Sure Shot Mc Gee · January 16, 2014, 10:17 AM

[QUOTE I'm worried that without the pin, the neck will be resized again and then not expanded on the way out causing additional neck tension on the bullet and additional pressure. Any thoughts? QUOTE]

No big deal. Your first attempt will resize the neck back to specified tolerance with its expander operational. No further no matter how many times you push that same cartridge case in & out of the same resizer die time after time with its expander ball removed.
Twice, or 5 times resized in a consecutive manor. Doing so won't chance your shells dimension's from its very first resizing.

ncrypt · January 17, 2014, 05:31 AM

Not sure what you mean, but my die (full length resizer with expander) makes the neck undersize with your down stroke of the press, then the expander makes the inside diameter of the neck to spec upon exit. This also ensures accurate neck demensions despite brass thickness.

Sure, I can remove the expander/decapper and the neck diameter will be the same no matter how many times I do it, but the neck is about .004 smaller creating more neck tension.

Thanks for all the info, but since I have an extra expander/decapper pin, I decided to break off the decapper tip so I could leave in the primer and ensure proper resizing. I'm sure there will be other times I need to do this.

Some of the confusion may be the type of die I have. Here is a cutaway:

January 2, 2014, 10:20 AM	#1
ncrypt Member Join Date: December 3, 2013 Posts: 72	Ammo re-assembly I decided to reduce the load in a few rounds. When you guys have to take a round apart, is there any need to re-size the neck again or will the neck tension be ok to just put it back together? thanks

January 3, 2014, 08:15 PM	#6
Mike / Tx Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Posts: 2,101	I've pulled a ton of milsurp fmj '06's and loaded a 150 or 165gr Spitzer back in them. I usually just pulled the priming pin out and neck sized them down about 2/3 of the neck length before seating the new bullets. I only do that so I know I DO have good tension. With some of the older loaded rounds you also have to take a bronze brush or some tolulene and clean out the tar sealer as well or you sometimes get a weird seated bullet. __________________ LAter, Mike / TX

January 10, 2014, 01:15 AM	#12
Lost Sheep Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2009 Location: Anchorage Alaska Posts: 3,341	But there is no need to punch the primer If you want to re-size, re-charge, whatever, there is no need to remove the live primer. I know of no primer punch pin that cannot be removed. Lost Sheep

January 10, 2014, 02:55 AM	#14
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,875	IMO - It's a feel thing . I've double seated cases a few times with out any issue . I did it on purpose because I felt I was getting to much bullet hold and I thought I'd try seating the bullets twice . It did not seem to do anything good or bad for the few I did . Maybe 40 rounds . If you have seated enough bullets you start to feel how tight the neck tension is every time you seat the bullet . I have not been loading long but I think I have a good idea when I have the good neck tension by the feel of the press as I seat the bullet . Every now and again I seat a bullet that feels like ? Well like nothing when seated , kinda like I could have just pushed in with my fingers it was so light . I use bushing sizing dies now and when that happens I pull the bullet and neck size .001 smaller . GTG -I then mark the case with a Sharpe so I know for the next load cycle there is an issue with that neck . My point is I'd try to seat a few bullets first If you feel some resistance when seating for the second time . There most likely going to be fine . If they seat like mush and you cant even tell you seated the bullet . you will need to at least neck size the cases . __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again .

January 13, 2014, 10:36 PM	#21
Texascoonhunter Member Join Date: February 23, 2013 Location: Northeast TEXAS Posts: 28	Resizing with Primer in case You might just as well pull the de-primer pin out and resize the case after you have pull the bullet and powder. Then reload the powder and seat the bullet to proper depth. After you get all cases worked up and reloaded, then go back and crimp the bullet slightly. This will hold the bullet in place and function very well. The neck should not stretch from removing the bullet and need resizing. __________________ Free People own firearms, subjects do not !!

January 2, 2014, 10:52 AM	#2
tangolima Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 3,816	I use kinetic puller to pull the bullets. Dump the powder. Resize the neck. Recharge the powder and reseat the bullets. -TL

January 2, 2014, 11:07 AM	#3
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	Many folks have pulled bullets from military match ammo then replaced them with commercial match bullets. No resizing whatsoever. Accuracy was much better. And the ammo fed just as reliably in semiauto's, too. Normally, one doesn't need to resize the case neck unless the new bullet's smaller in diameter than the original one.

January 2, 2014, 11:50 AM	#4
tangolima Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 3,816	I tried that without resizing the neck. The bullet was too loose to my liking. It wasn't military round. Possibly the rounds had been sized with Lee collet die, and didn't have a lot of neck tension to begin with. Anyway I always resize the neck when I reseat the bullet. -TL

January 3, 2014, 03:18 PM	#5
ncrypt Member Join Date: December 3, 2013 Posts: 72	thanks guys. How do you resize the neck without removing the primer? On my resizing die - Can I just move the primer pin up in the collet so it doesn't hit the new primer? I also have a neck resizing die that I guess I could use.

January 4, 2014, 06:47 PM	#7
ncrypt Member Join Date: December 3, 2013 Posts: 72	thanks Mike, but with my Lee dies, the primer remover pin looks to have an enlarged area that helps resize the neck? I don't think it will resize the neck if I remove it? Any thoughts?

January 5, 2014, 06:12 PM	#9
leefan Member Join Date: January 5, 2014 Posts: 16	When I do that I punch the primer and resize. Otherwise you have erratic bullet seating and OAL's.

January 9, 2014, 05:57 AM	#10
ncrypt Member Join Date: December 3, 2013 Posts: 72	How do you punch a live primer safely?

January 9, 2014, 08:05 AM	#11
Sure Shot Mc Gee Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,876	So long as the de-capping pin and stem are straight and centered in the die's bore you shouldn't encounter any problems. I would suggest you look at your first primer removed in such a way. See if indeed the de-capping pin has centered on the primers anvil. Just go slow at it and have something to shield your eyes on i.e. put on some sort of safety glass's before attempting.

January 10, 2014, 02:18 AM	#13
shooterbob Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2013 Posts: 109	Don't try to remove a live primer...if nothing else, remove the powder and bullet and fireform them like blanks to pop the primer. Then deprime normally. Like they stated unless you remove the depriming pin your going to set off the primer when you try to deprime.

January 10, 2014, 11:10 AM	#16
5whiskey Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2005 Location: US Posts: 3,652	I second that you can deprime a live primer. I don't do it just for fun or anything, but if I need to fix an oops then I will and have never had an issue. I usually go pretty slow and look away, but I'm certainly not afraid of it. It actually takes a lot to set a primer off (although Lee apparently found a way to set Federal primers off with their old hand primer).

January 13, 2014, 12:42 AM	#17
shooterbob Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2013 Posts: 109	I agree that its doable, but is it even worth the chance of setting off a primer that's 2 cents? If someone doesnt know the process and how much weight and speed to do so, I wouldn't recommend telling them its ok to do so. Just my two cents lol

January 13, 2014, 07:19 PM	#18
Chili Palmer Member Join Date: July 15, 2013 Posts: 52	I've de-primed many a live primer. Put the safety glasses on and did it nice and easy. No problemo. Here's why every bench should have a single stage press!

January 13, 2014, 09:23 PM	#19
cdoc42 Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,687	I've also deprimed a live primer without any problems. Agree go very slow and just ease it out. To be safe I cover the entire press after setting the case in the holder with two old bath hand towels just in case. If you're really nervous about it, take the primer punch pin out of the die, b ut that's a lot of trouble if you only have one case to fix.

January 13, 2014, 10:14 PM	#20
shooterbob Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2013 Posts: 109	X2 on having the single stage.. it would make it a lot easier for that vs progressive.

January 15, 2014, 05:32 PM	#22
ncrypt Member Join Date: December 3, 2013 Posts: 72	Thanks guys, I'm taking apart these rounds, but I am concerned that removing the decapper pin is a bad idea since it's considered an expander as well. I'm worried that without the pin, the neck will be resized again and then not expanded on the way out causing additional neck tension on the bullet and additional pressure. Any thoughts?

January 15, 2014, 06:49 PM	#23
cosh Member Join Date: August 14, 2013 Posts: 39	If you are using a Lee die, yes the neck expander comes out with the depriming pin. If RCBS and others, you can remove the pin from the neck expander. Reinstall the expander without the pin. It will expand the neck to the proper dimension.

January 16, 2014, 10:17 AM	#24
Sure Shot Mc Gee Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,876	[QUOTE I'm worried that without the pin, the neck will be resized again and then not expanded on the way out causing additional neck tension on the bullet and additional pressure. Any thoughts? QUOTE] No big deal. Your first attempt will resize the neck back to specified tolerance with its expander operational. No further no matter how many times you push that same cartridge case in & out of the same resizer die time after time with its expander ball removed. Twice, or 5 times resized in a consecutive manor. Doing so won't chance your shells dimension's from its very first resizing. Last edited by Sure Shot Mc Gee; January 16, 2014 at 10:23 AM.

January 17, 2014, 05:31 AM	#25
ncrypt Member Join Date: December 3, 2013 Posts: 72	Not sure what you mean, but my die (full length resizer with expander) makes the neck undersize with your down stroke of the press, then the expander makes the inside diameter of the neck to spec upon exit. This also ensures accurate neck demensions despite brass thickness. Sure, I can remove the expander/decapper and the neck diameter will be the same no matter how many times I do it, but the neck is about .004 smaller creating more neck tension. Thanks for all the info, but since I have an extra expander/decapper pin, I decided to break off the decapper tip so I could leave in the primer and ensure proper resizing. I'm sure there will be other times I need to do this. Some of the confusion may be the type of die I have. Here is a cutaway: Last edited by ncrypt; January 17, 2014 at 05:46 AM.