Call me crazy...

[FrontSight]

You guys should def check out the link that arcticap posted, there is an AR Muzzleloader there, looks awesome. I would want a shorter barrel, tho, and...in smokeless!

http://www.tromix.com/Projects_o_Tromix.htm

[Hawg]

Whatever floats your boat dude. It don't float mine.

[Raider2000]

Originally Posted by Scrap5000

You guys should def check out the link that arcticap posted, there is an AR Muzzleloader there, looks awesome. I would want a shorter barrel, tho, and...in smokeless!

Then why have it?
To me it just makes it more complicated than it needs to be, I understand the Savage ML II but again it has it's purpose, having a ML assault type weapon complicates & detracts too far from what Muzzle Loading is all about.

[arcticap]

If you want a custom made smokeless muzzle loading shotgun barrel, this outfit has been making custom length barrels to fit H&R single shot actions and will fit them to other guns too, including smoothbores. Just show them the money!

http://www.smokelessmuzzleloading.com/


BTW, what's wrong with a smokeless muzzle loader? I haven't heard anyone question the desire of feller's that want smokeless conversion C&B cylinders for the Ruger or Remington C&B revolvers.
Check it all out right here:

http://www.westlakeengineering.com/4640/4694.html


Smokeless is cleaner and more potent, that's all. It's still a muzzle loader, and sort of like a modern blunderbus. When one considers the payload that can be generated from a large bore muzzle loading shotgun barrel using smokeless powder but without needing to make custom shotshell ammo, it sort of makes sense to create such a beast. What about the feller's that shoot the 4 bores?
Now that's an amazingly powerful payload for someone to be able load up with some buck and ball to use for home defense!

[Smokin_Gun]

Muzzleloading Assault Rifles
1777 Charleville Carbine

1728 Fusil De Grenadier

And a few more, I can see the differance can you?


Not to be confused with inline, or Black look alike modern assault rifles.
I only speak about my opinion, these toys are hidius looking and an insult to all the great styles and gunsmiths throughout history. Including all the present day gunsmiths carrying on the trade/art in the same tradition.
(My Opininion)
SG

I don't know why I bothered...some just may not get it.

[Hawg]

I don't know why I bothered...some just may not get it.

Unfortunately they never will.

[Raider2000]

Originally Posted by arcticap

BTW, what's wrong with a smokeless muzzle loader? I haven't heard anyone question the desire of feller's that want smokeless conversion C&B cylinders for the Ruger or Remington C&B revolvers.
Check it all out right here:

http://www.westlakeengineering.com/4640/4694.html

If this question is pointed twords me, if you look at my posting you will see that I do mention a Smokeless Muzzle loader the Savage & I don't have an issue with them because they are intended to be a Muzzleloader with the ability to fire Smokeless powder safely but when you go into a complicated mechanism like the M16 design & attempt to turn it into a Muzzle Loader in my opinion it detracts from what the weapons actual function is & makes it Butt Ugly as all get out.

[Hawg]

I haven't heard anyone question the desire of feller's that want smokeless conversion C&B cylinders for the Ruger or Remington C&B revolvers.

That's a whole nother ball game. Those guns(conversions)actually existed. This monstrosity is an abhor ration but then I don't like inlines either.

[mykeal]

Watch out Hawg. You're beginning to make sense to me.

Smokin Gun - fine pictures, thanks.

Turning an AR-15 into a bp muzzleloader, or even a smokeless muzzleloader, makes as much sense to me as modifying a Ruger Old Army to shoot cartridges. It's not wrong, but gee, they're both fine weapons doing what they're designed to do. Why mess that up?

My brother-in-law's step son-in-law (figure that one out) and I enjoy shooting together. He has an AR-15 he put together from various and sundry parts and pieces and I really enjoy shooting it. And he has just as much fun shooting my .54 Lyman GPR flinter. Neither one of us would ever imagine modifying either gun from what it does best, however.

[FrontSight]

Wow, I just don't get why so much animosity towards this idea

I just think it would be awesome to have an inline that looks like an AR...combine the old with the newer (and proven) design.

I'm not saying to get rid of older designs...I like them too! Why can't we live in a world with both designs? And whatever you feel like hunting with or shooting that day, that's the one you grab...

Aren't more options a good thing? This is America, by God!

[Raider2000]

Originally Posted by Scrap5000

Wow, I just don't get why so much animosity towards this idea

I just think it would be awesome to have an inline that looks like an AR...combine the old with the newer (and proven) design.

I'm not saying to get rid of older designs...I like them too! Why can't we live in a world with both designs? And whatever you feel like hunting with or shooting that day, that's the one you grab...

Aren't more options a good thing? This is America, by God!

The AR15/M16 & their variants are proven semi & full automatic weapons in caliber 5.56mm & others but with Black Powder even in modern inlines there is blow by in the area of the primer which will need cleaning just like the barrel which is why I personally think it'd be a bad idea because of the complexity of the internals of such weapons, otherwise it'd be a novelty for the few.

Yes it is America in which we on a daily basis have to keep an eye on the anti gun bills that come about & being as such most of the bills in the system are for the modern weapons not Muzzleloading "for the most part," if we start having our Muzzleloaders looking like the weapons that the Brady Bill Backers & such are gnashing at their teeth at on getting rid of, how long before they start wanting our Muzzleloaders?

[Hawg]

Watch out Hawg. You're beginning to make sense to me.

OMG, can't let that happen.

[whosyrdaddy]

Quote:
I don't know why I bothered...some just may not get it.

Unfortunately they never will.

Funny thing is, he and some others are thinking the exact same thing about you two right about now. Some guys like fat girls, some like thin ones, some want them all, others don't want any. Personally, I don't think there's any gun prettier than a sxs hammer gun but I don't expect you to see it that way.

But, in response to Scrap5000's statement,

Wow, I just don't get why so much animosity towards this idea

Raider2000 pretty much nailed it. ml shooters have enjoyed the benefit of the general public's ignorance for some time now. Most people think that these types of weapons are little more than rock chuckers that are both inaccurate and unreliable. As such, we have largely evaded regulation and even manage to get a special hunting season out of it. Frankly, we would like to keep it that way. Eventually, this ride is going to end but the longer we stay invisable the longer the ride.

[FrontSight]

Aaaahh..fear of Sarah Brady, I see. United we don't stand, and all that.

[Smokin_Gun]

Funny thing is, he and some others are thinking the exact same thing about you two right about now. Some guys like fat girls, some like thin ones, some want them all, others don't want any. Personally, I don't think there's any gun prettier than a sxs hammer gun but I don't expect you to see it that way.

I see you are new here and am not giving you a hard time. But, exactly who did I say anything about and what was I thinking??? Look you don't know me and I don't know you..if you want I will sit right here and you tell me all you know about the History and Art of Muzzleloading. Then I can do the same if you like, or tell you all I know about Fat Girls and SxS Gauges. How's that sound? Then you can try to rag on me for what you know and not what you think you know about me.
Fair?
SG

[whosyrdaddy]

Mr. Smokin Gun,

I could not presume to know what you were thinking. I can only make a reasonable interpretation of the words you wrote within the context of your own post. I took the last statement in your post being;

I don't know why I bothered...some just may not get it.

to mean that you were doubtful that the person/persons to whom were attempting to convey information of some sort would receive and/or comprehend that information. I then looked to the rest of that post for said information being;

Not to be confused with inline, or Black look alike modern assault rifles.
I only speak about my opinion, these toys are hidius looking and an insult to all the great styles and gunsmiths throughout history. Including all the present day gunsmiths carrying on thrade art in the same tradition.
(My Opinion)

Based on this interpretation I read " it " to mean your aforementioned opinion and " some " to mean those that don't share it. Since you did not address an alternative, I read this post as a response to the OP.

If by chance I have misinterpreted your post then please enlighten me, as I am "new" here and therefore may not fully grasp the English language.

[Smokin_Gun]

Not to be confused with inline, or Black look alike modern assault rifles.
I only speak about my opinion, these toys are hidius looking and an insult to all the great styles and gunsmiths throughout history. Including all the present day gunsmiths carrying on the trade/art in the same tradition.
(My Opininion)
SG

I did not single anyone out, nor did I make referance to fat girls or SXS's.
So I do believe you may have misconceived my Opinion as meaning more that The Facts of actual Muzzleloading History as an Art, School, and Trade of some of the Greatest People the World has ever known. That was the Point, not so much my opinion.

SG