Is this really legal?

SPUSCG · March 10, 2011, 01:47 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1WhhKH3QVU

Looks like it would be fun but i thought similar products had been shut down before?

Inspector3711 · March 10, 2011, 02:19 PM

Yeah I wonder... I guess it's not part of the fire control system but still.... Looks $350 with free shipping....

taylorce1 · March 10, 2011, 02:26 PM

Who knows for sure, except the BATF. Even then if it is legal but they perceive it not to be you'll have the burden of proof. Probably a question better asked in the NAF forums where the guys are much more knowledgeable than I.

I've shot plenty of fully automatic firearms thanks to my time in the Military. Full auto is overrated and only for mall ninjas except in a fire fight where suppressive fire is needed. Precision shooting is much more interesting IMO. Three rounds is about all you can accurately put on target with an M16 that is why they don't issue them in full auto anymore anyway.

SPUSCG · March 10, 2011, 02:56 PM

I cant afford full auto centerfire, a .22lr in full auto-ish setting would be fun as hell though.

DiscoRacing · March 10, 2011, 03:00 PM

Looks like something I could get into

Microgunner · March 10, 2011, 03:01 PM

I'm getting one.

jmr40 · March 10, 2011, 03:03 PM

You don't need a specal stock to do that. It is all about technique. I've got to wonder if the stock really helps at all. Maybe!

Microgunner · March 10, 2011, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmr40

You don't need a specal stock to do that. It is all about technique. I've got to wonder if the stock really helps at all. Maybe!

I can bump fire, just can't hit what I'm aiming at. This device looks like it could change that.

Hardcase · March 10, 2011, 03:43 PM

The ATF apparently says that it's legal at this time. All I can say is this: There's a member on this site who created something very similar, apparently got ATF approval, put a ton of money into it, then the ATF rescinded the approval.

Before I bought one of these, I'd ask for a copy of the approval letter to see just how it was described to the ATF in order to gain the approval.

Yung.gunr · March 10, 2011, 08:29 PM

Looks pretty cool. Don't really care what their certificate says, I would not want to be caught with that on my gun. Too expensive for me anyway. Does have the tacticool points though.

Jeff F · March 10, 2011, 08:43 PM

Reminds me of the Akins Accelerator for the 10-22.

9mm · March 10, 2011, 09:27 PM

I would call the ATF and find out.

FrankenMauser · March 10, 2011, 09:57 PM

There has been considerable discussion about the slide-stocks, on these forums. The manufacturer claims them to be legal. One of the members here got an ATF response that said it was legal (another thread - probably about a year ago).

But... it all comes back to what others have already said:

Quote:

The ATF apparently says that it's legal at this time. All I can say is this: There's a member on this site who created something very similar, apparently got ATF approval, put a ton of money into it, then the ATF rescinded the approval.

...Which reminds me of SKSs that are not 922r compliant, but are in aftermarket stocks. The ATF's position on them, is: 'So long as the bayonet has been removed, and no other modifications are made - compliance with 922r is not required'. Yet, the regulations clearly state that you are in violation, as soon as you drop the barreled action in that new stock... ("assembling" the firearm).

Skans · March 11, 2011, 08:45 AM

It reminds me of the Akins Accelerator. Brilliant idea. BATFE seemed to approve it...and then said it didn't approve it. Required folks who had them to disassemble them and turn in the springs. It should have been legal, per BATFE rules and definitions.

The bottom line - if the device really works and anyone can use it to simulate full-auto fire (not like those hell-fire thingies) while firing from the shoulder, BATFE ain't gonna like it. Also, if you are going to get one - you really need to keep the literature with you at all times, because local LEO's could give you a hard time.

AK103K · March 11, 2011, 09:05 AM

This will only cost you about a penny, well alright Im dating myself, a $1 in 2011 funds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVfwF...eature=related

And if you look at the target at the end, he hits what hes shooting at.

Microgunner · March 11, 2011, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AK103K

This will only cost you about a penny, well alright Im dating myself, a $1 in 2011 funds.

Rubber band bump fire is illegal.

AK103K · March 11, 2011, 11:54 AM

So all rubber bands within the domicile of your gun is in the NFA?

OK then.

Rifleman1776 · March 11, 2011, 12:15 PM

ATF and lawyers will have to decide legality.
There used to be a crank affair you could put on a 10/22 trigger to make or simulate full auto. Dunno if it is legal. Don't see any use for it.
There is (was?) a .22 lr brass replica of a Gatling gun that fires like full auto when the crank is turned. My understand is that it is legal. It is a beautiful replica. It is also very expensive.

madmo44mag · March 11, 2011, 01:30 PM

Full auto is not all it is cracked up to be plus the ammo cost are staggering.
In my area there is not a range that would allow it.

AK103K · March 11, 2011, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Full auto is not all it is cracked up to be plus the ammo cost are staggering.

What, ammo gets cheaper the more times you have to pull the trigger?

Full auto has its uses, and the gun has nothing to do with wasting ammo.

Quote:

In my area there is not a range that would allow it.

Many if not most places dont allow it, and its been that way for a long time. Those of us with full autos have always been the bastard children of the firearms disciplines, and often shunned by those who either dont like them for whatever reason, or now cant afford them.

I dont know how many times Ive been told by other "gun people" I shouldnt have mine and they just make us all look bad.

Its also amazing how little most gun people know when it comes to what the guns are, what you physically can and cant do with them, and what the laws are as it relates to them are.

Im sure the insurance companies have a lot to do with the range issues, that and fear of looking bad and political correctness. Just like you cant shoot at targets that look like people many places.

Oh well, so much for scary things in the world of the afraid.

smince · March 11, 2011, 01:59 PM

As I understand it, the Accelerator used a spring. This device does not, hence the difference.

For now...

aarondhgraham · March 11, 2011, 03:08 PM

It's the BMF Activator.

It's legal because it only fires one round per trigger pull,,,
It will not make the rifle sustain automatic firing of the gun.

This is legal as well for the same reason,,,
One round per trigger pull.

I remember a looooong thread in this forum,,,
Or maybe it was in okshooters.com,,,
We talked about the string thing.

The general consensus was that the string would cause sustained fire,,,
Thereby making it illegal in the eyes of the BATFE.

But we're just internet lawyers,,,
What do we really know.

I would buy the BMF Activator for fun,,,
I would not put a string on my trigger.

JMHO - YMMV

Aarond

Skans · March 11, 2011, 03:57 PM

When it comes down to what BATFE claims is legal or illegal, they could care less what the law really says. Their "rulings" are inconsistent and overreaching.

Here are some examples:

Ruling on Open Bolt semi-autos - no easier to convert to full auto than AR-15's - bottom line they aren't machineguns. Ease of conversion has no relevance and is inconsistently applied.
Ruling on USAS-12 and Striker Street Sweeper - no different than Saiga 12's. Plus, they were domestically produced.
Ruling on post 82(?) DIAS - No, it's not a machinegun and by itself can't make any gun a machinegun.
Ruling on Akins Accelerator - A bump-fire device, 1 shot per trigger pull - ruled a machinegun....but everyone knows its not.

Vt.birdhunter · March 11, 2011, 04:25 PM

If you buy it, and they ban it....will they grandfather whats circulating or demand they be turned in?

Willie D · March 11, 2011, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Ruling on USAS-12 and Striker Street Sweeper - no different than Saiga 12's. Plus, they were domestically produced.

Saiga 12 may be joining them...

March 10, 2011, 01:47 PM	#1
SPUSCG Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2008 Posts: 3,004	Is this really legal? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1WhhKH3QVU Looks like it would be fun but i thought similar products had been shut down before? __________________ Check us out: www.imfdb.org. Fun site for people who love gun movies.

March 10, 2011, 02:19 PM	#2
Inspector3711 Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2008 Location: Puget Sound Washington Posts: 1,553	Yeah I wonder... I guess it's not part of the fire control system but still.... Looks $350 with free shipping.... __________________ "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." The Dalai Llama (5/15/01, The Seattle Times) "That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." George Orwell

March 10, 2011, 02:26 PM	#3
taylorce1 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2005 Location: On the Santa Fe Trail Posts: 8,249	Who knows for sure, except the BATF. Even then if it is legal but they perceive it not to be you'll have the burden of proof. Probably a question better asked in the NAF forums where the guys are much more knowledgeable than I. I've shot plenty of fully automatic firearms thanks to my time in the Military. Full auto is overrated and only for mall ninjas except in a fire fight where suppressive fire is needed. Precision shooting is much more interesting IMO. Three rounds is about all you can accurately put on target with an M16 that is why they don't issue them in full auto anymore anyway. __________________ NRA Life Member

March 10, 2011, 02:56 PM	#4
SPUSCG Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2008 Posts: 3,004	I cant afford full auto centerfire, a .22lr in full auto-ish setting would be fun as hell though. __________________ Check us out: www.imfdb.org. Fun site for people who love gun movies.

March 10, 2011, 03:00 PM	#5
DiscoRacing Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2008 Location: milton, wv Posts: 3,640	Looks like something I could get into __________________ Desert Eagle Alliance Group Launcher Extraordinaire ______ ----Get Busy Live'n.....Or....Get Busy Die'n......Red -------They call me Dr. Bob,,,, I have a PhD in S&W

March 10, 2011, 03:01 PM	#6
Microgunner Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2006 Location: Central Florida Posts: 3,324	I'm getting one. __________________ *Proud NRA Benefactor Member*

March 10, 2011, 03:03 PM	#7
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,809	You don't need a specal stock to do that. It is all about technique. I've got to wonder if the stock really helps at all. Maybe!

March 10, 2011, 03:43 PM	#9
Hardcase Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Location: Sunny Southern Idaho Posts: 1,909	The ATF apparently says that it's legal at this time. All I can say is this: There's a member on this site who created something very similar, apparently got ATF approval, put a ton of money into it, then the ATF rescinded the approval. Before I bought one of these, I'd ask for a copy of the approval letter to see just how it was described to the ATF in order to gain the approval. __________________ Well we don't rent pigs and I figure it's better to say it right out front because a man that does like to rent pigs is... he's hard to stop - Gus McCrae

March 10, 2011, 08:29 PM	#10
Yung.gunr Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2010 Location: Phoenix area Posts: 1,442	Looks pretty cool. Don't really care what their certificate says, I would not want to be caught with that on my gun. Too expensive for me anyway. Does have the tacticool points though.

March 10, 2011, 08:43 PM	#11
Jeff F Senior Member Join Date: September 4, 2005 Location: Silver Springs NV Posts: 187	Reminds me of the Akins Accelerator for the 10-22.

March 10, 2011, 09:27 PM	#12
9mm Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2011 Location: Land of the Free Posts: 2,834	I would call the ATF and find out.

March 11, 2011, 08:45 AM	#14
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	It reminds me of the Akins Accelerator. Brilliant idea. BATFE seemed to approve it...and then said it didn't approve it. Required folks who had them to disassemble them and turn in the springs. It should have been legal, per BATFE rules and definitions. The bottom line - if the device really works and anyone can use it to simulate full-auto fire (not like those hell-fire thingies) while firing from the shoulder, BATFE ain't gonna like it. Also, if you are going to get one - you really need to keep the literature with you at all times, because local LEO's could give you a hard time.

March 11, 2011, 09:05 AM	#15
AK103K Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2001 Posts: 10,223	This will only cost you about a penny, well alright Im dating myself, a $1 in 2011 funds. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVfwF...eature=related And if you look at the target at the end, he hits what hes shooting at.

March 11, 2011, 11:54 AM	#17
AK103K Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2001 Posts: 10,223	So all rubber bands within the domicile of your gun is in the NFA? OK then.

March 11, 2011, 12:15 PM	#18
Rifleman1776 Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 3,309	ATF and lawyers will have to decide legality. There used to be a crank affair you could put on a 10/22 trigger to make or simulate full auto. Dunno if it is legal. Don't see any use for it. There is (was?) a .22 lr brass replica of a Gatling gun that fires like full auto when the crank is turned. My understand is that it is legal. It is a beautiful replica. It is also very expensive.

March 11, 2011, 01:30 PM	#19
madmo44mag Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2008 Location: Ft.Worth, Texas Posts: 1,522	Full auto is not all it is cracked up to be plus the ammo cost are staggering. In my area there is not a range that would allow it. __________________ Texas - Not just a state but an attitude! For monthly shooting events in DFW visit http://www.meetup.com/TexasGunOwner-DFW

March 11, 2011, 01:59 PM	#21
smince Junior member Join Date: October 9, 2004 Location: Northeast Alabama Posts: 2,580	As I understand it, the Accelerator used a spring. This device does not, hence the difference. For now...

March 11, 2011, 03:08 PM	#22
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 8,638	This is legal,,, It's the BMF Activator. It's legal because it only fires one round per trigger pull,,, It will not make the rifle sustain automatic firing of the gun. This is legal as well for the same reason,,, One round per trigger pull. I remember a looooong thread in this forum,,, Or maybe it was in okshooters.com,,, We talked about the string thing. The general consensus was that the string would cause sustained fire,,, Thereby making it illegal in the eyes of the BATFE. But we're just internet lawyers,,, What do we really know. I would buy the BMF Activator for fun,,, I would not put a string on my trigger. JMHO - YMMV Aarond __________________ Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)

March 11, 2011, 03:57 PM	#23
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	When it comes down to what BATFE claims is legal or illegal, they could care less what the law really says. Their "rulings" are inconsistent and overreaching. Here are some examples: Ruling on Open Bolt semi-autos - no easier to convert to full auto than AR-15's - bottom line they aren't machineguns. Ease of conversion has no relevance and is inconsistently applied. Ruling on USAS-12 and Striker Street Sweeper - no different than Saiga 12's. Plus, they were domestically produced. Ruling on post 82(?) DIAS - No, it's not a machinegun and by itself can't make any gun a machinegun. Ruling on Akins Accelerator - A bump-fire device, 1 shot per trigger pull - ruled a machinegun....but everyone knows its not.

March 11, 2011, 04:25 PM	#24
Vt.birdhunter Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2009 Posts: 637	If you buy it, and they ban it....will they grandfather whats circulating or demand they be turned in?