Range brass pickup?

kmw1954 · March 4, 2018, 02:03 PM

Today while at a local indoor range that I shoot at we ran into a fellow that kept sweeping up our spent brass and throwing it into the bucket. I didn't see it at first but my wife did. So I asked the gentlemen to please stop that as I pick up my brass for reloading.

He then goes on to start telling me that we are not allowed to pick up our range brass anymore because of some new OSHA regulation and that the other range on the other side of town was just busted with thousand dollar fines going to both the range, the shooter and anyone else that was present for not reporting it. Somehow I do not believe this and believe it to be BS.

BTW this was in Illinois so who knows maybe it is true! Anyone know the truth?

JERRYS. · March 4, 2018, 02:06 PM

I call B.S. because they're not taking your revolver brass are they?

kmw1954 · March 4, 2018, 02:16 PM

They are not but this is why I'm asking.

joed · March 4, 2018, 02:30 PM

Not the first time I've heard this. Lots of indoor ranges are making a rule that any brass on the floor is theirs.

kmw1954 · March 4, 2018, 02:54 PM

This wasn't a case of on the floor it's now ours. This was a person that stated it was a law because of the lead exposure. Even went as far as stating someone was arrested for it.

UncleEd · March 4, 2018, 03:05 PM

Several years ago ranges were required, I believe, to provide
hockey-puck like sticks for "sweeping" away the brass as brooms
were frowned on for kicking up dust.

One range where I was a member had such hockey stick devices.
But a shooter could still gather up his own brass.

JoeSixpack · March 4, 2018, 03:39 PM

I have not heard this before.

I would not goto a range indoor or out that claimed the brass on the floor as their property.

I sweep, I keep, I don't consider it the ranges property till someone tosses it in the can.

It's rude to sweep up someone elses brass but once they leave it's fair game.

Any range that has a problem with my philosophy Im happy to not visit again.

**Aguila Blanca** · March 4, 2018, 05:02 PM

OSHA is "Occupational Safety and Health Administration." As such, it applies only to workers. I very much doubt there are so many shooting range employees exposed to lead dust that there's rule for shooting ranges. If there's some general rule about air-borne lead dust (and there probably is), I don't see how it makes any difference if he sweeps it up and dumps it in a can or if you sweep it up and dump it in a baggy to take home. In fact, if he's the employee HE is the person protected by OSHA, and he's clearly at less risk of exposure if he stays out of the way and allows you to sweep and pick up your own brass.

I call B.S.

KLCane · March 4, 2018, 05:35 PM

Forgive my ignorance, but why would anyone want them? What do these ranges do with them?

Nathan · March 4, 2018, 05:38 PM

The brass? They sell it. Some have big sorting operations and sell it at a premium like $10 per 100 9,40,45....

5whiskey · March 4, 2018, 08:16 PM

Quote:

This was a person that stated it was a law because of the lead exposure. Even went as far as stating someone was arrested for it.

Bwahahaha!!! This is a bold faced lie! No one was arrested for allowing customers to police their brass at the range.

I'm familiar with OSHA. 10s of thousands of indoor and outdoor ranges throughout America are as well. They do have some onerous regulations for firing ranges but at no time will they arrest someone (or fine anyone) for range customers picking up their own brass.

This is a case of a range that sorts and sells brass to help generate revenue. They could just post a sign saying "brass belongs to range when it hits the floor," but that will put any reloader (read: high volume and usually frequent shooter) off and they want their business too. But its their range, their rules. At least that is better than straight up lying.

I wouldn't go back there. They're dishonest at best.

candr44 · March 4, 2018, 08:26 PM

When you bought the ammunition you also bought the brass that its loaded in. You paid for it so its your property until you say it isn't.

kmw1954 · March 4, 2018, 09:04 PM

It appears that everyone is assuming this guy works for the range. He may be an instructor there but even at that I do not believe he has any other function at the range. To be honest I thought he was just another customer until we went out of the range and were chatting about the ranges league. That's when it hit me that this guy might be an instructor as there was a class underway when we arrived.

After I returned home and started thinking about this I emailed three other ranges in this general area and one of them was the range this guy was referring to. I asked them about their policy on picking up spent brass and not one of them disallows it. They have rules like not crossing the firing line or picking up someone else's brass but that is it.

So later this week I will be stopping in to talk with one of the owners if for nothing more than to set the record straight.

Marco Califo · March 5, 2018, 01:28 AM

Ranges are private enterprises (or run by LE). You pay to shoot at their range. They can make whatever rules they want.
BS or not, many now keep the brass. You may have owned it, it matters not. Your option is to use a different range.

kmw1954 · March 5, 2018, 02:35 AM

OK,I don't care who owns the brass once it hits the floor. what I want to know is there a law written that says you cannot pick up brass as this gentleman stated!

YES?
NO?

**Aguila Blanca** · March 5, 2018, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco Califo

Ranges are private enterprises (or run by LE). You pay to shoot at their range. They can make whatever rules they want.
BS or not, many now keep the brass. You may have owned it, it matters not. Your option is to use a different range.

Or don't let your brass hit the floor.

https://www.brownells.com/shooting-a...prod81549.aspx

Marco Califo · March 5, 2018, 03:18 AM

It is not a "law". But, that does not do you any good. All you can do is ask range employees what their policy is. That guy could be someone other than a principal. I do believe he was blowing smoke, but may have the range in his corner. But no, there is no law.

mehavey · March 5, 2018, 07:29 AM

Quote:

what I want to know is there a law written that says
you cannot pick up brass as this gentleman stated!

NO.
https://www.usashooting.org/library/...ent_-_NSSF.pdf

and here's what OSHA did cite "that other range" for:
https://www.osha.gov/ooc/citations/I...82_0608_12.pdf
See p 22 (-- which is a heckuva reach (IMHO) for even OSHA. ),
and p 42 (-- which shows that the employee's sweeping was -- itself -- an OSHA violation.

BTW: What's described in this citation could be used -- deliberately so -- to shut down 99% of all indoor ranges.

Prndll · March 5, 2018, 07:54 AM

I could be completely off base here but....

Isn't this part of why people use brass catchers? I mean, otherwise, how would you be able to 'know' what's yours if the shooter in the next lane is working with the same caliber (if that matters)?

I know someone that reloads and maybe at some point I might get into that. But it just seems like if a shooter even allows it to hit the floor in the first place, that sends a pretty clear message.

mtinner · March 5, 2018, 09:23 AM

What pretty clear message does that send?

gnystrom · March 5, 2018, 09:34 AM

I am a RSO/instructor at an indoor range and RSO's have a great policy. We ask if you are saving your brass and we push all unwanted brass toward that customer. If you come into our range you WILL go home with far more casings than you started with.

What makes more sense, pushing it out of the bay and selling it as scrap for a couple bucks per pound or having a lot of very happy oft returning customers?

Lohman446 · March 5, 2018, 10:34 AM

The OSHA angle is nonsense and the story about major fines to customers is equally.

I understand the idea behind "lost brass" facilities. When its crowded turn-over time is important and having people scurrying around trying to police their own brass is annoying. Further some people might actually care about "their" particular brass. I also don't need someone trying to hawk brass from active shooters as it hits the floor. For the vast majority of shooters its just not worth the hassle. I can see where the rules are formed and made and why. Frankly its a shooting range. The less different activities that are going on the easier it is to supervise and assure no accidents occur.

I can also see why exceptions are made: if you are shooting some non-standard caliber then the brass becomes more of an issue to you then most people. If you are shooting during some non-peak time it really doesn't matter if you pick up a couple dollars (really what is it) worth of brass. Giving away something that, even if sorted, is a minimal profit driver to make anything during non-peak hours seems to be pretty straight forward.

I don't care. I don't reload so...

kmw1954 · March 5, 2018, 10:55 AM

Prndll, brass catchers do not catch everything. We had 4 pistols with us yesterday and each one throw brass in a different direction. The 380 I shoot throws it right over your head and behind you. My Taurus PT92 drops them right on the bench while my wife's XD Mod2 throws them half way up the wall.

If the range is busy I will collect what is in my lane or directly behind me and will not violate someone else's space. So yes there is a loss incurred when the range is busy.

Prndll · March 5, 2018, 11:17 AM

I understand.

I have mainly two ranges that a frequent (occasionally a third). I've just never been all that worried about it. Maybe that will change. Who knows what life will be in the future? I've wondered about keeping it and melting it down for other things (maybe a brass keyboard for my computer). But I just don't have the time for stuff like that. It's hard enough for me to find time to be at the range to begin with. If the range wants it, I'll consider it a tip. An added thank you for letting me fire my guns within their four walls.

What does annoy me though (what I consider somewhat rude) is getting hit by other shooters' flying brass.

I have a friend that cannot stand firing her husbands .40S&W Glock because of flinging brass. She has become quite comfortable firing their .357 revolver. Atleast for the indoor range they go to.

kmw1954 · March 5, 2018, 11:21 AM

mehavey, after reading that link to the OSHA citations it made me wonder if this wasn't the same dirtbag that I ran into. The range sited is very close to the second range that these new owners also own and hold classes. If it wasn't the same person well then he seemed to be very familiar with this case.

March 4, 2018, 02:03 PM	#1
kmw1954 Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2016 Location: SE Wisconsin Posts: 1,524	Range brass pickup? Today while at a local indoor range that I shoot at we ran into a fellow that kept sweeping up our spent brass and throwing it into the bucket. I didn't see it at first but my wife did. So I asked the gentlemen to please stop that as I pick up my brass for reloading. He then goes on to start telling me that we are not allowed to pick up our range brass anymore because of some new OSHA regulation and that the other range on the other side of town was just busted with thousand dollar fines going to both the range, the shooter and anyone else that was present for not reporting it. Somehow I do not believe this and believe it to be BS. BTW this was in Illinois so who knows maybe it is true! Anyone know the truth?

March 4, 2018, 02:30 PM	#4
joed Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2014 Posts: 442	Not the first time I've heard this. Lots of indoor ranges are making a rule that any brass on the floor is theirs. __________________ The 6 gun was once as common as the cellphone is today, and just as annoying when it went off in the theater.

March 4, 2018, 03:39 PM	#7
JoeSixpack Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2017 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,048	I have not heard this before. I would not goto a range indoor or out that claimed the brass on the floor as their property. I sweep, I keep, I don't consider it the ranges property till someone tosses it in the can. It's rude to sweep up someone elses brass but once they leave it's fair game. Any range that has a problem with my philosophy Im happy to not visit again. __________________ NRA sold us out This is America!, You have the right to be stupid.

March 5, 2018, 01:28 AM	#14
Marco Califo Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2011 Location: LA (Greater Los Angeles Area) Posts: 2,598	Ranges are private enterprises (or run by LE). You pay to shoot at their range. They can make whatever rules they want. BS or not, many now keep the brass. You may have owned it, it matters not. Your option is to use a different range. __________________ ............

March 5, 2018, 03:18 AM	#17
Marco Califo Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2011 Location: LA (Greater Los Angeles Area) Posts: 2,598	It is not a "law". But, that does not do you any good. All you can do is ask range employees what their policy is. That guy could be someone other than a principal. I do believe he was blowing smoke, but may have the range in his corner. But no, there is no law. __________________ ............

March 4, 2018, 02:06 PM	#2
JERRYS. Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,969	I call B.S. because they're not taking your revolver brass are they?

March 4, 2018, 02:16 PM	#3
kmw1954 Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2016 Location: SE Wisconsin Posts: 1,524	They are not but this is why I'm asking.

March 4, 2018, 02:54 PM	#5
kmw1954 Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2016 Location: SE Wisconsin Posts: 1,524	This wasn't a case of on the floor it's now ours. This was a person that stated it was a law because of the lead exposure. Even went as far as stating someone was arrested for it.

March 4, 2018, 03:05 PM	#6
UncleEd Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2013 Location: N. Georgia Posts: 1,150	Several years ago ranges were required, I believe, to provide hockey-puck like sticks for "sweeping" away the brass as brooms were frowned on for kicking up dust. One range where I was a member had such hockey stick devices. But a shooter could still gather up his own brass.

March 4, 2018, 05:02 PM	#8
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,468	OSHA is "Occupational Safety and Health Administration." As such, it applies only to workers. I very much doubt there are so many shooting range employees exposed to lead dust that there's rule for shooting ranges. If there's some general rule about air-borne lead dust (and there probably is), I don't see how it makes any difference if he sweeps it up and dumps it in a can or if you sweep it up and dump it in a baggy to take home. In fact, if he's the employee HE is the person protected by OSHA, and he's clearly at less risk of exposure if he stays out of the way and allows you to sweep and pick up your own brass. I call B.S.

March 4, 2018, 05:35 PM	#9
KLCane Member Join Date: February 16, 2018 Posts: 43	Forgive my ignorance, but why would anyone want them? What do these ranges do with them?

March 4, 2018, 05:38 PM	#10
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,331	The brass? They sell it. Some have big sorting operations and sell it at a premium like $10 per 100 9,40,45....

March 4, 2018, 08:26 PM	#12
candr44 Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2006 Posts: 481	When you bought the ammunition you also bought the brass that its loaded in. You paid for it so its your property until you say it isn't.

March 4, 2018, 09:04 PM	#13
kmw1954 Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2016 Location: SE Wisconsin Posts: 1,524	It appears that everyone is assuming this guy works for the range. He may be an instructor there but even at that I do not believe he has any other function at the range. To be honest I thought he was just another customer until we went out of the range and were chatting about the ranges league. That's when it hit me that this guy might be an instructor as there was a class underway when we arrived. After I returned home and started thinking about this I emailed three other ranges in this general area and one of them was the range this guy was referring to. I asked them about their policy on picking up spent brass and not one of them disallows it. They have rules like not crossing the firing line or picking up someone else's brass but that is it. So later this week I will be stopping in to talk with one of the owners if for nothing more than to set the record straight.

March 5, 2018, 02:35 AM	#15
kmw1954 Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2016 Location: SE Wisconsin Posts: 1,524	OK,I don't care who owns the brass once it hits the floor. what I want to know is there a law written that says you cannot pick up brass as this gentleman stated! YES? NO?

March 5, 2018, 07:54 AM	#19
Prndll Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2017 Location: Texas Posts: 123	I could be completely off base here but.... Isn't this part of why people use brass catchers? I mean, otherwise, how would you be able to 'know' what's yours if the shooter in the next lane is working with the same caliber (if that matters)? I know someone that reloads and maybe at some point I might get into that. But it just seems like if a shooter even allows it to hit the floor in the first place, that sends a pretty clear message.

March 5, 2018, 09:23 AM	#20
mtinner Member Join Date: April 10, 2015 Posts: 29	What pretty clear message does that send?

March 5, 2018, 09:34 AM	#21
gnystrom Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2006 Posts: 308	I am a RSO/instructor at an indoor range and RSO's have a great policy. We ask if you are saving your brass and we push all unwanted brass toward that customer. If you come into our range you WILL go home with far more casings than you started with. What makes more sense, pushing it out of the bay and selling it as scrap for a couple bucks per pound or having a lot of very happy oft returning customers?

March 5, 2018, 10:34 AM	#22
Lohman446 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2016 Posts: 2,192	The OSHA angle is nonsense and the story about major fines to customers is equally. I understand the idea behind "lost brass" facilities. When its crowded turn-over time is important and having people scurrying around trying to police their own brass is annoying. Further some people might actually care about "their" particular brass. I also don't need someone trying to hawk brass from active shooters as it hits the floor. For the vast majority of shooters its just not worth the hassle. I can see where the rules are formed and made and why. Frankly its a shooting range. The less different activities that are going on the easier it is to supervise and assure no accidents occur. I can also see why exceptions are made: if you are shooting some non-standard caliber then the brass becomes more of an issue to you then most people. If you are shooting during some non-peak time it really doesn't matter if you pick up a couple dollars (really what is it) worth of brass. Giving away something that, even if sorted, is a minimal profit driver to make anything during non-peak hours seems to be pretty straight forward. I don't care. I don't reload so...

March 5, 2018, 10:55 AM	#23
kmw1954 Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2016 Location: SE Wisconsin Posts: 1,524	Prndll, brass catchers do not catch everything. We had 4 pistols with us yesterday and each one throw brass in a different direction. The 380 I shoot throws it right over your head and behind you. My Taurus PT92 drops them right on the bench while my wife's XD Mod2 throws them half way up the wall. If the range is busy I will collect what is in my lane or directly behind me and will not violate someone else's space. So yes there is a loss incurred when the range is busy.

March 5, 2018, 11:17 AM	#24
Prndll Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2017 Location: Texas Posts: 123	I understand. I have mainly two ranges that a frequent (occasionally a third). I've just never been all that worried about it. Maybe that will change. Who knows what life will be in the future? I've wondered about keeping it and melting it down for other things (maybe a brass keyboard for my computer). But I just don't have the time for stuff like that. It's hard enough for me to find time to be at the range to begin with. If the range wants it, I'll consider it a tip. An added thank you for letting me fire my guns within their four walls. What does annoy me though (what I consider somewhat rude) is getting hit by other shooters' flying brass. I have a friend that cannot stand firing her husbands .40S&W Glock because of flinging brass. She has become quite comfortable firing their .357 revolver. Atleast for the indoor range they go to.

March 5, 2018, 11:21 AM	#25
kmw1954 Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2016 Location: SE Wisconsin Posts: 1,524	mehavey, after reading that link to the OSHA citations it made me wonder if this wasn't the same dirtbag that I ran into. The range sited is very close to the second range that these new owners also own and hold classes. If it wasn't the same person well then he seemed to be very familiar with this case.