Have we lightened up on 1911 shooters finally? - Page 2

ManyMag · October 24, 2018, 01:45 AM

The only time "what" you're carrying matters is when it fails.

Rob228 · October 24, 2018, 05:21 AM

Quote:

I have issues with carrying a cocked and locked 1911 concealed. Under the shoulder is one thing

That makes sense, if throughout the course of your day you never walk in front of anyone.

USNRet93 · October 24, 2018, 09:02 AM

Quote:

The only time "what" you're carrying matters is when it fails.

Yup..the whole 'which caliber' gig is fascinating...

gw44 · October 24, 2018, 12:54 PM

My CPL instructor said don't trust your life to a 1911 !!!

K_Mac · October 24, 2018, 07:17 PM

gw44 your instructor once again proves the point that there are knotheads in every occupation and profession.

armednfree · October 27, 2018, 10:40 AM

Bet he is a Glock fan

**Aguila Blanca** · October 27, 2018, 03:10 PM

"Beware of the man who only owns one gun. He might know how to use it."

I own two 1911s, so bad guys have no reason to fear me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gw44

My CPL instructor said don't trust your life to a 1911 !!!

You CPL instructor is a moron.

I'm CPL instructor and I only carry a 1911 (unless I have to resort to pocket carry, for which I have a Colt Mustang -- which is sort of like a mini-1911). My CPL instructor carries a 1911. He owns a gun shop and a shooting range. He could carry anything he wants. He's been carrying a 1911 for at least the twenty years I've known him.

SIGSHR · November 1, 2018, 01:50 PM

Charlie Askins once said his editors told him to write provocative articles to rile people up and get readers to write to the magazine-and presumably buy it.
Jeff Cooper was the High Priest of the M1911 cult, now that he is gone there is no one of similar stature to defend the faith.

armednfree · November 1, 2018, 10:31 PM

Or if you wear a vertical holster like my Galco VHS.

FireForged · November 3, 2018, 06:07 PM

Quote:

remember a few years ago you were deemed irresponsible if you carried a big heavy, low capacity, hair triggered, manual safety, less than uber reliable, outdated 1911 for protection. What gives???

it was "years ago" as you said. Why the re-examination of an old argument that you have to "remember from years ago"?

I carry a BHP .. its an old outdated gun and if someone doesn't like it, they don't have to carry one. I tend to focus on how I feel about things not how other people feel about them.

Tactical Jackalope · November 11, 2018, 12:26 PM

I don't care what other people carry.

If I do feel it is inadequate in today's world, I'll say it.

That all aside, the firearm could mean absolutely everything from zero to the left if you don't have the proper mindset and training.

So yeah, if you're not trained on said platform and you haven't put in work in the elements. Shot on the move, supine, ducked, on the side of your body doing reloads and kicking away, etc etc etc aka taught "gunfighting" then yes. I will tell you to get a better firearm.

Not because of anything emotional either. Not at all. The reason why is because, in those aforementioned classes where your gun may be susceptible to certain abuse, they've come out on top while the others have choked.

To be fair! In the 1911s defense. Everyone and their mother makes a variation of the 1911. So that's why some people who "hate" brand A, B, and C will recommend brand X, Y, and Z.

**Aguila Blanca** · November 11, 2018, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timothy75

Aren't we still supposed to shun them and say ''How much is your life worth?''

Hmmm...

Colt M1991A1 Compact -- $434.59

Golden Saber 230-grain JHP -- ~ $30/25 = $1.20/round x 6 = $7.20

I guess my life is worth $441.79

**Aguila Blanca** · November 11, 2018, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Constantine

So yeah, if you're not trained on said platform and you haven't put in work in the elements. Shot on the move, supine, ducked, on the side of your body doing reloads and kicking away, etc etc etc aka taught "gunfighting" then yes. I will tell you to get a better firearm.

I respectfully submit that this is illogical. If someone hasn't been trained in "gunfighting" (to use your term), then they are untrained regardless of what firearm they carry. What is a "better" firearm for someone who is not trained to use a firearm?

If I'm carrying a 1911 but I haven't been through all the training you advocate (either with a 1911 or with any other firearm), is an XDs a "better" firearm for me to carry in my untrained naivete? Why?

Tactical Jackalope · November 11, 2018, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

I respectfully submit that this is illogical. If someone hasn't been trained in "gunfighting" (to use your term), then they are untrained regardless of what firearm they carry. What is a "better" firearm for someone who is not trained to use a firearm?

If I'm carrying a 1911 but I haven't been through all the training you advocate (either with a 1911 or with any other firearm), is an XDs a "better" firearm for me to carry in my untrained naivete? Why?

I mean it in more of a "I won't tell Ken Hackathorn to quit carrying that silly gun" type of way.

Can someone successfully stop a threat with little to no training? Sure.

Would they be better off with a higher capacity modern handgun in the event of multiple assailants and some formal training? Heck yes.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Targa · November 12, 2018, 06:31 PM

Lightened up on 1911 shooters finally? I must have my head in the sand, I never noticed that people were giving them grief.

gwpercle · November 15, 2018, 04:16 PM

They work .
Worked in 1911 and work today..... If something works...use it.

A gun maker said he sell every 1911 he produces....every one of them, they are popular and they sell .

Only those who can't shoot a 1911 in 45 acp go with the 9mm Luger....the rest of us go 45.
Gary

TunnelRat · November 15, 2018, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwpercle

They work .
Worked in 1911 and work today..... If something works...use it.

A gun maker said he sell every 1911 he produces....every one of them, they are popular and they sell .

Only those who can't shoot a 1911 in 45 acp go with the 9mm Luger....the rest of us go 45.
Gary

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

K_Mac · November 15, 2018, 06:08 PM

Well said TunnelRat!

DT Guy · November 15, 2018, 08:26 PM

While many of these arguments are...well, less-than-serious, I'd like to point out a very real consideration for why you should carry whatever you want:

Confidence

In a real-life confrontation, not having to worry about your gun's performance, or your ability to use it, will allow you to focus on managing the threat, instead of worrying about your gear. It will (I believe) also show in your demeanor, which in itself can help prevent an attack, or deter its continuation.

Think of it this way: "What weapon would I LEAST want my adversary to be carrying?"

For me, that would be, "The one he REALLY WANTS to be carrying right now."

Larry

rwilson452 · November 15, 2018, 10:17 PM

My primary carry is my Colt 1991A1. Of late I was was carrying my P238 because of a back problem. It was the most weight I could tolerate. Now I'm about over the surgery I had 2 months ago I will try going back to the 1911. I also own a XD in .45ACP. I found it to weigh more than my 1911 when they are fully loaded with 230 gr. GDHP. I'm not quite as accurate with the XD either. Maybe it's the sight radius. It is what it is. Back to 1911s. I recall a quote by Col. Cooper, " If you can't get it done with 7 from a 1911, you don't need more ammo, You need air support." Mine has 8. 7 in the Mag and 1 in the tube. Condition 1.The again it could be the 1911 is what I used since '63 in the navy. Over 50 years with the same pistol will get you comfortable with it.

Don Dayacetah · November 16, 2018, 01:42 AM

There's always somebody itching to contradict you, on the internet.
Whatever you say, whatever you do, it is wrong. Despite tons of
empirical evidence of the dependability and effectiveness of
1911s, you're always going to find some Guns & Ammo subscriber
who lives in mom's basement, got a beat old glock 17 from a
Pawn Shop for a couple hundred dollars, with half a box of WWB thrown in,using Birthday and Christmas checks he's been saving for years, who spends his days polishing 23 bullets, repeatedly cleaning the as yet unfired by him gun, who spends the majority of his productive time surfing the
internet, taking out the family trash, and dumping all over everybody
who doesn't possess the Ultimate Wisdom to do it all His Way. After all,
he saw a u-toob of some gun tester who mashed 1911 into a bunch of mud,
in the most unrealistic firing test possible, which he now takes as Gospel, right?

I've carried 1911s, probably will again, they're a fine gun. Right now,
I like revolvers, for personal reasons. 9mm is a great ammo choice.
Wanted to do something to protect myself from the crime in the
neighborhood. I MOVED to a better neighborhood.

Nils carborundum bastardi. Peace, my brother. Know that you,
in your place, at this time, are right, in what you choose to do
for yourself. Enjoy the holidays.

shurshot · November 16, 2018, 07:34 PM

SIGSHR wrote..."Charlie Askins once said his editors told him to write provocative articles to rile people up and get readers to write to the magazine-and presumably buy it."

You mean Askins might possibly have embellished a bit to get attention, build his reputation, cause controversy and sell magazines??? Oh do tell!!

The 1911A1 is a good gun. My 1987 Springfield .45 is one of
My favorite plinkers. Very reliable. The previously mentioned CPL instructor should stick to Paintball... nothing wrong with a 1911A1. Served our troops through several major conflicts.

TunnelRat · November 16, 2018, 08:20 PM

It's interesting that in the other thread you said we should just move on, yet here you are continuing that conversation in this thread.

Indiana? Let it go.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

shurshot · November 16, 2018, 10:32 PM

SIGSHR brought up new information I had not read before that supports what I have long suspected pertaining to Askins and probably several other much beloved writers. Contraversy sold magazines. Remember E. Keith vs. J. O'Connor in the 70's, the ongoing debate over calibers for African big game? Or .357 vs. 45 in the 70's? Or 9MM vs.45 in the 80's? Or the timeless "What is the "best" deer cartridge"? E. Keith's 400 yard shot with a .44 revolver? Compound vs. Recuve bow? One has to look far beyond what was printed and ask "Who, what, where, when and why". If magazines don't turn a profit, they go under. That being said, one should take what one reads with a grain of salt.

**Aguila Blanca** · November 16, 2018, 11:17 PM

There must be at least twenty companies today making (and selling) 1911s. When I attended the SHOT Show in January of this year, I had a list of all the 1911 manufacturers I knew of, and an agenda to stop by each of their displays for at least a few minutes. I spent three full days wandering the exhibit hall, and I did visit every 1911 maker on my list. I also encountered three more whom I had never even heard of -- didn't know they existed, but there they were. Next year I won't be surprised if I find at least two more I've never heard of.

If Glock's patents were to expire tomorrow, do you think twenty-plus companies would be tripping over each other to rush into production of Glock clones? It's possible, but I don't see it happening.

October 24, 2018, 07:17 PM	#30
K_Mac Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2010 Posts: 1,850	gw44 your instructor once again proves the point that there are knotheads in every occupation and profession. __________________ "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Benjamin Franklin

November 15, 2018, 06:08 PM	#43
K_Mac Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2010 Posts: 1,850	Well said TunnelRat! __________________ "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Benjamin Franklin

November 15, 2018, 08:26 PM	#44
DT Guy Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2001 Posts: 959	While many of these arguments are...well, less-than-serious, I'd like to point out a very real consideration for why you should carry whatever you want: *Confidence* In a real-life confrontation, not having to worry about your gun's performance, or your ability to use it, will allow you to focus on managing the threat, instead of worrying about your gear. It will (I believe) also show in your demeanor, which in itself can help prevent an attack, or deter its continuation. Think of it this way: "What weapon would I LEAST want my adversary to be carrying?" For me, that would be, "The one he REALLY WANTS to be carrying right now." Larry __________________ He who fights and runs away had better run pretty damn fast. Government, Anarchy and Chaos

November 15, 2018, 10:17 PM	#45
rwilson452 Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2004 Location: Tioga co. PA Posts: 2,647	My primary carry is my Colt 1991A1. Of late I was was carrying my P238 because of a back problem. It was the most weight I could tolerate. Now I'm about over the surgery I had 2 months ago I will try going back to the 1911. I also own a XD in .45ACP. I found it to weigh more than my 1911 when they are fully loaded with 230 gr. GDHP. I'm not quite as accurate with the XD either. Maybe it's the sight radius. It is what it is. Back to 1911s. I recall a quote by Col. Cooper, " If you can't get it done with 7 from a 1911, you don't need more ammo, You need air support." Mine has 8. 7 in the Mag and 1 in the tube. Condition 1.The again it could be the 1911 is what I used since '63 in the navy. Over 50 years with the same pistol will get you comfortable with it. __________________ USNRET '61-'81

November 16, 2018, 01:42 AM	#46
Don Dayacetah Member Join Date: May 28, 2018 Posts: 59	There's always somebody itching to contradict you, on the internet. Whatever you say, whatever you do, it is wrong. Despite tons of empirical evidence of the dependability and effectiveness of 1911s, you're always going to find some Guns & Ammo subscriber who lives in mom's basement, got a beat old glock 17 from a Pawn Shop for a couple hundred dollars, with half a box of WWB thrown in,using Birthday and Christmas checks he's been saving for years, who spends his days polishing 23 bullets, repeatedly cleaning the as yet unfired by him gun, who spends the majority of his productive time surfing the internet, taking out the family trash, and dumping all over everybody who doesn't possess the Ultimate Wisdom to do it all His Way. After all, he saw a u-toob of some gun tester who mashed 1911 into a bunch of mud, in the most unrealistic firing test possible, which he now takes as Gospel, right? I've carried 1911s, probably will again, they're a fine gun. Right now, I like revolvers, for personal reasons. 9mm is a great ammo choice. Wanted to do something to protect myself from the crime in the neighborhood. I MOVED to a better neighborhood. Nils carborundum bastardi. Peace, my brother. Know that you, in your place, at this time, are right, in what you choose to do for yourself. Enjoy the holidays. Last edited by Don Dayacetah; November 16, 2018 at 02:02 AM.

October 24, 2018, 01:45 AM	#26
ManyMag Member Join Date: September 17, 2018 Location: Kerrville, Texas Posts: 53	The only time "what" you're carrying matters is when it fails.

October 24, 2018, 12:54 PM	#29
gw44 Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2015 Location: Michigan Posts: 311	My CPL instructor said don't trust your life to a 1911 !!!

October 27, 2018, 10:40 AM	#31
armednfree Senior Member Join Date: October 30, 2016 Posts: 211	Bet he is a Glock fan

November 1, 2018, 01:50 PM	#33
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	Charlie Askins once said his editors told him to write provocative articles to rile people up and get readers to write to the magazine-and presumably buy it. Jeff Cooper was the High Priest of the M1911 cult, now that he is gone there is no one of similar stature to defend the faith.

November 1, 2018, 10:31 PM	#34
armednfree Senior Member Join Date: October 30, 2016 Posts: 211	Or if you wear a vertical holster like my Galco VHS.

November 11, 2018, 12:26 PM	#36
Tactical Jackalope Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 6,429	I don't care what other people carry. If I do feel it is inadequate in today's world, I'll say it. That all aside, the firearm could mean absolutely everything from zero to the left if you don't have the proper mindset and training. So yeah, if you're not trained on said platform and you haven't put in work in the elements. Shot on the move, supine, ducked, on the side of your body doing reloads and kicking away, etc etc etc aka taught "gunfighting" then yes. I will tell you to get a better firearm. Not because of anything emotional either. Not at all. The reason why is because, in those aforementioned classes where your gun may be susceptible to certain abuse, they've come out on top while the others have choked. To be fair! In the 1911s defense. Everyone and their mother makes a variation of the 1911. So that's why some people who "hate" brand A, B, and C will recommend brand X, Y, and Z.

November 12, 2018, 06:31 PM	#40
Targa Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2014 Posts: 2,084	Lightened up on 1911 shooters finally? I must have my head in the sand, I never noticed that people were giving them grief.

November 15, 2018, 04:16 PM	#41
gwpercle Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 1,752	They work . Worked in 1911 and work today..... If something works...use it. A gun maker said he sell every 1911 he produces....every one of them, they are popular and they sell . Only those who can't shoot a 1911 in 45 acp go with the 9mm Luger....the rest of us go 45. Gary

November 16, 2018, 07:34 PM	#47
shurshot Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2006 Posts: 1,819	SIGSHR wrote..."Charlie Askins once said his editors told him to write provocative articles to rile people up and get readers to write to the magazine-and presumably buy it." You mean Askins might possibly have embellished a bit to get attention, build his reputation, cause controversy and sell magazines??? Oh do tell!! The 1911A1 is a good gun. My 1987 Springfield .45 is one of My favorite plinkers. Very reliable. The previously mentioned CPL instructor should stick to Paintball... nothing wrong with a 1911A1. Served our troops through several major conflicts. Last edited by shurshot; November 17, 2018 at 12:12 PM.

November 16, 2018, 08:20 PM	#48
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 12,214	It's interesting that in the other thread you said we should just move on, yet here you are continuing that conversation in this thread. Indiana? Let it go. Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

November 16, 2018, 10:32 PM	#49
shurshot Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2006 Posts: 1,819	SIGSHR brought up new information I had not read before that supports what I have long suspected pertaining to Askins and probably several other much beloved writers. Contraversy sold magazines. Remember E. Keith vs. J. O'Connor in the 70's, the ongoing debate over calibers for African big game? Or .357 vs. 45 in the 70's? Or 9MM vs.45 in the 80's? Or the timeless "What is the "best" deer cartridge"? E. Keith's 400 yard shot with a .44 revolver? Compound vs. Recuve bow? One has to look far beyond what was printed and ask "Who, what, where, when and why". If magazines don't turn a profit, they go under. That being said, one should take what one reads with a grain of salt. Last edited by shurshot; November 16, 2018 at 11:47 PM.

November 16, 2018, 11:17 PM	#50
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,459	There must be at least twenty companies today making (and selling) 1911s. When I attended the SHOT Show in January of this year, I had a list of all the 1911 manufacturers I knew of, and an agenda to stop by each of their displays for at least a few minutes. I spent three full days wandering the exhibit hall, and I did visit every 1911 maker on my list. I also encountered three more whom I had never even heard of -- didn't know they existed, but there they were. Next year I won't be surprised if I find at least two more I've never heard of. If Glock's patents were to expire tomorrow, do you think twenty-plus companies would be tripping over each other to rush into production of Glock clones? It's possible, but I don't see it happening.