Affordable Elephant Gun? - Page 2

sixgunnin · September 19, 2018, 09:32 AM

Thanks for the help! Looks like the .375 Ruger might be the best/most affordable option. Any ideas on what kind of power I could expect? With a max load about how fast could I get a 350-375 grain hardcast going?

briandg · September 19, 2018, 09:50 AM

Just a bit of thinking says that you can probably reach about 2,000 but I'd not want to push it beyond that, I don't think.

You need to talk to the cast boolit experts.

jfruser · September 19, 2018, 10:53 AM

CZ550 Safari / American Safari retails for a bit more than you are asking.

jmstr · September 21, 2018, 01:39 AM

I realize you want a big whopping bullet moving fast, for the fun of it.

I'd probably go .45-70, so that I could have a lever action and use it for bear defense while camping in the north country.

One of the most successful hunters to bring down an elephant was W.D.M. Bell- who dropped over 1000 elephants in his time. The largest number were dropped with his round of choice: 7x57 Mauser [.275Rigby if your gun was made in England], firing a 173gr metal jacketed round.

WDM Bell's elephant hunting

So, My 1895 Chilean Mauser has a solid track record in elephant hunting- and it kicks less than what you are describing, and costs less to feed.

Placement, placement, placement.

Yet, the big ones are FUN to shoot. Pick and enjoy!

TRX · September 21, 2018, 08:56 AM

> 6000 foot pounds ... 500 Jeffery, 500 nitro, .458 Lott

The .500 Nitro is a sweetie, but you're looking at a double rifle for it. The doubles are highly developed, low production specialist equipment and carry corresponding price tags. For a single hunt it would be hard to justify.

The Jeffery is a proven cartridge with a lot of history. Many rifles from "fine" to "exquisite" have been built for it.

The Lott is more recent, but a proven performer. There are probably more Lott rifles than the first two put together, and if you have a rifle with an H&H-length action, most of them can be rebarreled to .458 Lott without undue trouble. For that matter, you can order a brand new rifle in that caliber and have it shipped to your favored FFL.

The cost/benefit ratio is heavily in favor of the .458 Lott. Though that's usually not a factor in how people justify a new rifle purchase...

---

As an aside, if you decide to go for a double, prices vary widely by caliber. The .470s and .500s carry a considerable premium due to their popularity, while some rifles chambered for some of the "orphan" cartridges may be steeply discounted.

There are ammunition makers who will make anything you might need, machining the cases out of brass bar stock if it comes down to that. Yes, they're expensive, but the price is negligible compared to the cost of a hunt.If you find an otherwise-good deal, don't pass on it just because it's chambered for some obsolete or wildcat cartridge.

**44 AMP** · September 21, 2018, 10:51 AM

Bell was an ivory hunter, and yes he did shoot a LOT of elephants with small caliber (for elephant) rifles. He didn't like the heavy recoil of the big calibers. He did use them, on occasion, but today is remembered for taking many elephants with 6.5mm, 7mm, .303 British, and some other "small" rifles. For some time, he was quite fond of the .318 Westly-Richards.

Bell is an example of what can be done, not what should be done. And, its also worth remembering that Bell left Africa after falling into serious disfavor with several African governments. The words "poaching" and "arrest" were apparently being used, and Bell "retired".

Another good source of information on taking elephants, from a different point of view is Capstick. Read "Death in the Long Grass" or his other works, I think its worth your time. Capstick did like his .470 but he shot a lot of elephants working as a cropping officer, using a Win M70 in .458 Winchester. (the govt supplied the ammo). Capstick describes numerous successes, and some failures with the .458, its worth reading.

Somewhere around 25 years ago, I got a custom Mauser in .458 WinMag. Built on a 1909 Argentine action. Found it at a gun show, always wanted a .458, and worked a trade. Spent the next couple years hunting the shows for brass, and got a couple hundred new Winchester cases.

My Mauser would not be a good Dangerous Game Rifle, it has a thumbhole stock. Somebody was building a nice mountain rifle, then put a .458 barrel on it. The gun is ridiculously light for a .458 (approx. 7.5lbs without scope), and to date, I've never shot "elephant" loads in it. Nor any factory ammo (kick and cost, waay too much for me)

I shoot (mostly) 400gr cast slugs at approx. 1800fps or so. recoil is acceptable to me, its a lot of fun, and the slugs will go a couple FEET deep in a tree, so I think they'll do just fine outside of Africa (where I'm never going to be going, anyway...)

I have loaded some jacketed 400s to 2100fps, and the recoil was more than I cared for, Also, the bullets I used were for the .45-70, and at 2100fps, expanded..violently. Like varmint bullet violently.

The .458 Lott is essentially the .458 Win Mag, with a longer case which allows enough room for powder to actually deliver the velocity that was claimed for the .458 Win (500gr), which the Win didn't quite produce in the field.

If all you want to do is throw big chunks of lead around, the .458 Win will do that and do it through any standard length action. The .45-70 in a suitable rifle will do it too but even in the strongest rifles, the .45-70 tops out about 300fps slower than the .458 Win's capability. If velocity is your goal look at the .460 Weatherby, and a couple others. But, open you wallet, wide, and have a good medical support team on standby!

briandg · September 21, 2018, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Bell is an example of what can be done, not what should be done.

That is the one greatest thing that I have ever heard here. My daughter's guy insists on attaching a gasoline engine to his bicycle so he can make a daily fifteen mile commute. He can hook it up, but he can't make an engine Too small for a lawn mower haul him.

Hopefully, I can remember that phrase.

Rifletom · September 21, 2018, 11:46 AM

Just asking here, sooo. Have you ever shot many rounds thru a big thumper before?
Say 10, 15 or 20 rounds? Sobering times ahead.

briandg · September 21, 2018, 11:48 AM

many years ago, I read an article about converting a siamese mauser to fire 45-70. I read that and coveted it. I'd still love to get my hands on a bolt made for it, the most versatile elephant sized gun available.

T. O'Heir · September 21, 2018, 11:53 AM

"...under about $1,000..." Not a chance. And that .500 Jeffery runs about $10 a shot. About $6 per shot for .458 Win. You ever shoot anything like those?
Guy came in the shop, years ago, who was going to Africa. He had decided he must have his own .458. He bought a Win M70 African and one box of ammo(BNIB brass ran about $50Cdn per 20). Picked it up on a Friday evening. Happy as a clam. The next day, he came back with the rifle, 18 loaded rounds and 2 empties looking to sell.
Oh and elephants have been killed with one shot using both a 7mm Mauser and a .303 British. And you can't bring trophy ivory into the U.S. Plus the hunt will cost you in 5 figures plus, plus, plus. Starts at roughly 30 grand USD plus around $15,500US trophy fee and another $620US in taxes on the trophy fee alone(that's Zimbabwe. Changes by country). And all that is from a discount hunt seller.
"...wanting to lob really big chunks of lead around..." Use a 12 gauge shotgun and shoot slugs. Cast bullets are not for hunting big mean critters.

Dufus · September 21, 2018, 12:12 PM

My favorites are the big bores. From the 375s, the various 45s, and up to 69 caliber.

I can handle most of them with no trouble, but I am older (a lot older) than when I bought my first one.

The felt recoil with the 458 Win Mag is different than with the 460. Much sharper. That is the reason I don't have one now. I can shoot the 460 standing for maybe 10 shots at the most in one setting, but that one setting is over 4-5 hours. I fill in the gap with smaller stuff.

I have never shot a 45 or larger caliber from a bench...........only standing either freehand or with a stick. Accuracy is definitely minute of elephant, but I have shot one 5 shot group that measured 1 3/4" at 100 yds with the 460. It can do better, but I can't with iron sights.

I have never shot factory ammo from them other than 3 shots of 460 ammo that a buddy provided that he was using in his.

I paid him for them ($120/20=$6.00 per shot). He won't let me reload his, but I do mine. I do shoot cast bullets with all of them, but still 500 gr is 500 gr.

I cast 0.690" round balls and shoot them in 12 ga brass shells. They are effective.

I have a 58 caliber BP rifle and it can be loaded to the uncomfortable stage as well.

I will never venture to a place to shoot very large dangerous game, but I do like the rifles capable of taking them. There will come a time when I can't do it any longer, so I enjoy shooting them for today.

FITASC · September 21, 2018, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Plus the hunt will cost you in 5 figures plus, plus, plus. Starts at roughly 30 grand USD plus around $15,500US trophy fee and another $620US in taxes on the trophy fee alone(that's Zimbabwe. Changes by country). And all that is from a discount hunt seller.

A friend of mine puts together African safaris, mostly in Cameroon. His elephant hunts run right at $100K........plus airfare, trophy fees, etc.

Quote:

"...wanting to lob really big chunks of lead around..." Use a 12 gauge shotgun and shoot slugs.

And for the full retina-detaching effect, use a light single shot shotgun.

FrankenMauser · September 21, 2018, 01:13 PM

Big chunk of lead?
Fast?
Cheap?
Elephant?

Pick two.
I don't think you'll be getting all four.

I'd say go digging through the used racks for a .458 WM. It's more than the average person can handle, and would be a very good lesson in "heavy and fast". (...Even though it's fairly slow by big boomer standards.)

Quote:

This was taken from wikipedia, I read the very same thing in james howe's books, it failed to gain popularity at the time. Back when extremely precise work and home gunsmiths this would have posed a problem.

That quote from wikipedia is popular myth, and just a bunch of BS. The original .400 Whelen was an 'improved' cartridge.
It used a blown-out case body that did leave enough room for a shoulder and safe headspacing.

Long story short, RCBS made their own interpretation of .400 Whelen at some point, but used the standard taper of a .30-06 case. THAT version had (and still has) serious issues with an inadequate shoulder and cases being pushed too deeply into the chamber.
I would provide a link to a page where you can read the history, as written by the man that tracked down original dies (improved style) as well as very early RCBS dies (standard taper), and obtained original correspondence about the .400 Whelen's design; but the site owner seems to have closed up shop and gone to a place-holder website.

handlerer2 · September 21, 2018, 06:03 PM

Maybe you should fire a grossly overpowered rifle before you go shopping. Have you ever fired a more conventional magnum rifle such as a 300-340WBY or a RUM of sorts to get a feel for real recoil before you buy.

You live in MT so you must know someone with one, who might enjoy watching your reaction to serious firepower, who would let you shoot five rounds through theirs. If you
can accommodate the recoil of a 340WBY, or a 338 Lapua with a hot 300GR handload you might be able to use a dangerous game rifle as a fun gun.

I'm curious what you end up with. So fill us in.

Where are generally in MT?

I have passed my Weatherby on to my son in Billings. I have owned and reloaded for several magnums, but 340 was the biggest. Anything based on the 378 will even more grossly overpowered. The 340 could use 90+ gr. of some powders, but 378's can use over 120 gr. I haven't had the pleasure of shooting one of those.

I was and still am fascinated by grossly overpowered rifles, but never used one as range toy. I seem to gotten over them. I hunted a couple of times with a 300WBY. It was very effective. But all of these type rifles are hunting tools first and foremost. IMO.

taylorce1 · September 21, 2018, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankenMauser

I would provide a link to a page where you can read the history, as written by the man that tracked down original dies (improved style) as well as very early RCBS dies (standard taper), and obtained original correspondence about the .400 Whelen's design; but the site owner seems to have closed up shop and gone to a place-holder website.

That would have more than likely been Michale Petrov, he passed away around three years ago. He did some very extensive research on the .400 Whelen, and he loaned my buddy his personal reamer to cut the chamber on his rifle.

Found this: Finegunmaking.com

agtman · September 21, 2018, 07:07 PM

Dude, there are no 'cheapo' guns for pachyderms.

Send $5-$6K to Wayne at AHR and ask for a .404 Jeffrey.

He'll build you one from scratch off a base CZ 550 Magnum action, which he'll blueprint and hone for reliability. Everything added after that, like the 23" barrel, sights, or the incredibly beautiful stock, is custom.

Then get yourself over to the Dark Continent and start killing enough elephants to impress Fredrick Selous, 'Ponodoro' Taylor, and Ernest Hemingway.

FITASC · September 21, 2018, 08:03 PM

Elephants are expensive to hunt. Primo safaris ain't cheap.....

briandg · September 21, 2018, 10:34 PM

Quote:

That quote from wikipedia is popular myth, and just a bunch of BS. The original .400 Whelen was an 'improved' cartridge.
It used a blown-out case body that did leave enough room for a shoulder and safe headspacing.

Frank, James Howe of frankford arsenal and griffin and howe designed it with townsend whelen. He stated the very thing in this book. They had gone through the basic case and worked it in a number of different calibers.

https://www.amazon.com/Modern-Gunsmi.../dp/B000K7M6C8

I don't know what else I can say.

FrankenMauser · September 21, 2018, 11:12 PM

Quote:

That would have more than likely been Michale Petrov, he passed away around three years ago. He did some very extensive research on the .400 Whelen, and he loaned my buddy his personal reamer to cut the chamber on his rifle.

Found this: Finegunmaking.com

Thanks for that. Pretty much the same basic details, but without the minutia.

Quote:

Frank, James Howe of frankford arsenal and griffin and howe designed it with townsend whelen. He stated the very thing in this book. They had gone through the basic case and worked it in a number of different calibers.

https://www.amazon.com/Modern-Gunsmi.../dp/B000K7M6C8

I don't know what else I can say.

I understand, but that doesn't make sense.
Townsend Whelen's personal case forming tools were designed to use cylindrical brass (or blown-out .30-06) -- not .30-06's standard taper.
And, Griffin and Howe's own products used the cylindrical version ('improved' or 'blown-out', if you prefer). Check taylorce1's link above. It cites verified examples of G&H rifles with the CORRECT chamber.

FindANewSlant · September 22, 2018, 12:03 AM

Ruger Model 77 in .375 Ruger.

darkgael · September 22, 2018, 06:15 AM

Interesting. I had a similar feeling some years ago....just wanted a rifle chambered for an “African” cartridge.
I picked up a Ruger #1 Tropical in .416 Rigby. At the time, it was under $700. I still have it and shoot it......slinging large bullets down range at paper, not elephants.
Also....really big chunks of lead can be slung with 12 gauge especially if one opts for Hubel’s “shotgun from hell” loads.
A one ounce Thug Slug from BPI, a RMC lathe turned hull, Win 209 primer, 75- 90 grains of IMR 4759 or 40 grains of Alliant Steel, a Mossberg 695 Bolt action.

the possum · September 22, 2018, 08:37 AM

You want something that will chuck a huge piece of lead for less than a thousand bucks.

Hmmm...

Have you considered something like this? 'Cause you might have to look pretty hard to beat a 2 1/4" bore.

https://hernironworks.com/product/na...nnon12pounder/

Other options too.
https://hernironworks.com/product/us...nnon-34-scale/

Hard to carry? That's why you have gun bearers!

zxcvbob · September 22, 2018, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Have you considered something like this? 'Cause you might have to look pretty hard to beat a 2 1/4" bore.

Carriage not included

(I didn't think you could get a gun like that under $1000) It's probably a lot more fun than a real elephant gun!

the possum · September 22, 2018, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Carriage not included

Ah, just bolt it to a log, or an old riding lawn mower!

Still, I was very surprised at the number of options they have for honest-to-God cannons for less than a thousand bucks, even without the carriage. And it wouldn't take much work at all to come up with a base for one of the mortars.

Rooster Leghorn · September 25, 2018, 10:43 AM

When I have the urge to lob some heavy lead I grab my .444 Marlin. It is a flatter shooting round than a .45-70 but with about the same energy, depending on the bullet weight. The gun is less than 7 pounds empty and probably about 7.5 pounds fully loaded (5 rounds). Felt recoil is, shall we say, sufficient for me, but I've never fired anything bigger than a .45-70.

Firing 20 rounds with the .444 is enough to leave dark bruises and cause me to wake up with a very sore shoulder the next day. I take it out about once a year for 20 rounds or to let my friends give it a try.

Cost per round for a factory load is about $1.75 and up.

September 19, 2018, 09:50 AM	#27
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	Just a bit of thinking says that you can probably reach about 2,000 but I'd not want to push it beyond that, I don't think. You need to talk to the cast boolit experts. __________________ None.

September 19, 2018, 10:53 AM	#28
jfruser Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 350	CZ550 Safari / American Safari retails for a bit more than you are asking. __________________ Regards, jfruser "Books and bullets have their own destinies."----Bob Ross

September 21, 2018, 10:51 AM	#31
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,832	Bell was an ivory hunter, and yes he did shoot a LOT of elephants with small caliber (for elephant) rifles. He didn't like the heavy recoil of the big calibers. He did use them, on occasion, but today is remembered for taking many elephants with 6.5mm, 7mm, .303 British, and some other "small" rifles. For some time, he was quite fond of the .318 Westly-Richards. Bell is an example of what can be done, not what should be done. And, its also worth remembering that Bell left Africa after falling into serious disfavor with several African governments. The words "poaching" and "arrest" were apparently being used, and Bell "retired". Another good source of information on taking elephants, from a different point of view is Capstick. Read "Death in the Long Grass" or his other works, I think its worth your time. Capstick did like his .470 but he shot a lot of elephants working as a cropping officer, using a Win M70 in .458 Winchester. (the govt supplied the ammo). Capstick describes numerous successes, and some failures with the .458, its worth reading. Somewhere around 25 years ago, I got a custom Mauser in .458 WinMag. Built on a 1909 Argentine action. Found it at a gun show, always wanted a .458, and worked a trade. Spent the next couple years hunting the shows for brass, and got a couple hundred new Winchester cases. My Mauser would not be a good Dangerous Game Rifle, it has a thumbhole stock. Somebody was building a nice mountain rifle, then put a .458 barrel on it. The gun is ridiculously light for a .458 (approx. 7.5lbs without scope), and to date, I've never shot "elephant" loads in it. Nor any factory ammo (kick and cost, waay too much for me) I shoot (mostly) 400gr cast slugs at approx. 1800fps or so. recoil is acceptable to me, its a lot of fun, and the slugs will go a couple FEET deep in a tree, so I think they'll do just fine outside of Africa (where I'm never going to be going, anyway...) I have loaded some jacketed 400s to 2100fps, and the recoil was more than I cared for, Also, the bullets I used were for the .45-70, and at 2100fps, expanded..violently. Like varmint bullet violently. The .458 Lott is essentially the .458 Win Mag, with a longer case which allows enough room for powder to actually deliver the velocity that was claimed for the .458 Win (500gr), which the Win didn't quite produce in the field. If all you want to do is throw big chunks of lead around, the .458 Win will do that and do it through any standard length action. The .45-70 in a suitable rifle will do it too but even in the strongest rifles, the .45-70 tops out about 300fps slower than the .458 Win's capability. If velocity is your goal look at the .460 Weatherby, and a couple others. But, open you wallet, wide, and have a good medical support team on standby! __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

September 21, 2018, 11:48 AM	#34
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	many years ago, I read an article about converting a siamese mauser to fire 45-70. I read that and coveted it. I'd still love to get my hands on a bolt made for it, the most versatile elephant sized gun available. __________________ None.

September 21, 2018, 11:53 AM	#35
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...under about $1,000..." Not a chance. And that .500 Jeffery runs about $10 a shot. About $6 per shot for .458 Win. You ever shoot anything like those? Guy came in the shop, years ago, who was going to Africa. He had decided he must have his own .458. He bought a Win M70 African and one box of ammo(BNIB brass ran about $50Cdn per 20). Picked it up on a Friday evening. Happy as a clam. The next day, he came back with the rifle, 18 loaded rounds and 2 empties looking to sell. Oh and elephants have been killed with one shot using both a 7mm Mauser and a .303 British. And you can't bring trophy ivory into the U.S. Plus the hunt will cost you in 5 figures plus, plus, plus. Starts at roughly 30 grand USD plus around $15,500US trophy fee and another $620US in taxes on the trophy fee alone(that's Zimbabwe. Changes by country). And all that is from a discount hunt seller. "...wanting to lob really big chunks of lead around..." Use a 12 gauge shotgun and shoot slugs. Cast bullets are not for hunting big mean critters. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

September 19, 2018, 09:32 AM	#26
sixgunnin Senior Member Join Date: March 24, 2017 Location: Montana Posts: 182	Thanks for the help! Looks like the .375 Ruger might be the best/most affordable option. Any ideas on what kind of power I could expect? With a max load about how fast could I get a 350-375 grain hardcast going?

September 21, 2018, 01:39 AM	#29
jmstr Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2001 Location: San Joaquin Valley, CA Posts: 1,281	I realize you want a big whopping bullet moving fast, for the fun of it. I'd probably go .45-70, so that I could have a lever action and use it for bear defense while camping in the north country. One of the most successful hunters to bring down an elephant was W.D.M. Bell- who dropped over 1000 elephants in his time. The largest number were dropped with his round of choice: 7x57 Mauser [.275Rigby if your gun was made in England], firing a 173gr metal jacketed round. WDM Bell's elephant hunting So, My 1895 Chilean Mauser has a solid track record in elephant hunting- and it kicks less than what you are describing, and costs less to feed. Placement, placement, placement. Yet, the big ones are FUN to shoot. Pick and enjoy!

September 21, 2018, 08:56 AM	#30
TRX Senior Member Join Date: September 24, 2008 Location: central Arkansas Posts: 400	> 6000 foot pounds ... 500 Jeffery, 500 nitro, .458 Lott The .500 Nitro is a sweetie, but you're looking at a double rifle for it. The doubles are highly developed, low production specialist equipment and carry corresponding price tags. For a single hunt it would be hard to justify. The Jeffery is a proven cartridge with a lot of history. Many rifles from "fine" to "exquisite" have been built for it. The Lott is more recent, but a proven performer. There are probably more Lott rifles than the first two put together, and if you have a rifle with an H&H-length action, most of them can be rebarreled to .458 Lott without undue trouble. For that matter, you can order a brand new rifle in that caliber and have it shipped to your favored FFL. The cost/benefit ratio is heavily in favor of the .458 Lott. Though that's usually not a factor in how people justify a new rifle purchase... --- As an aside, if you decide to go for a double, prices vary widely by caliber. The .470s and .500s carry a considerable premium due to their popularity, while some rifles chambered for some of the "orphan" cartridges may be steeply discounted. There are ammunition makers who will make anything you might need, machining the cases out of brass bar stock if it comes down to that. Yes, they're expensive, but the price is negligible compared to the cost of a hunt.If you find an otherwise-good deal, don't pass on it just because it's chambered for some obsolete or wildcat cartridge.

September 21, 2018, 11:46 AM	#33
Rifletom Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2011 Location: So-Cal Posts: 789	Just asking here, sooo. Have you ever shot many rounds thru a big thumper before? Say 10, 15 or 20 rounds? Sobering times ahead.

September 21, 2018, 12:12 PM	#36
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,965	My favorites are the big bores. From the 375s, the various 45s, and up to 69 caliber. I can handle most of them with no trouble, but I am older (a lot older) than when I bought my first one. The felt recoil with the 458 Win Mag is different than with the 460. Much sharper. That is the reason I don't have one now. I can shoot the 460 standing for maybe 10 shots at the most in one setting, but that one setting is over 4-5 hours. I fill in the gap with smaller stuff. I have never shot a 45 or larger caliber from a bench...........only standing either freehand or with a stick. Accuracy is definitely minute of elephant, but I have shot one 5 shot group that measured 1 3/4" at 100 yds with the 460. It can do better, but I can't with iron sights. I have never shot factory ammo from them other than 3 shots of 460 ammo that a buddy provided that he was using in his. I paid him for them ($120/20=$6.00 per shot). He won't let me reload his, but I do mine. I do shoot cast bullets with all of them, but still 500 gr is 500 gr. I cast 0.690" round balls and shoot them in 12 ga brass shells. They are effective. I have a 58 caliber BP rifle and it can be loaded to the uncomfortable stage as well. I will never venture to a place to shoot very large dangerous game, but I do like the rifles capable of taking them. There will come a time when I can't do it any longer, so I enjoy shooting them for today.

September 21, 2018, 06:03 PM	#39
handlerer2 Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2010 Location: Yellowstone Co, MT Posts: 489	Maybe you should fire a grossly overpowered rifle before you go shopping. Have you ever fired a more conventional magnum rifle such as a 300-340WBY or a RUM of sorts to get a feel for real recoil before you buy. You live in MT so you must know someone with one, who might enjoy watching your reaction to serious firepower, who would let you shoot five rounds through theirs. If you can accommodate the recoil of a 340WBY, or a 338 Lapua with a hot 300GR handload you might be able to use a dangerous game rifle as a fun gun. I'm curious what you end up with. So fill us in. Where are generally in MT? I have passed my Weatherby on to my son in Billings. I have owned and reloaded for several magnums, but 340 was the biggest. Anything based on the 378 will even more grossly overpowered. The 340 could use 90+ gr. of some powders, but 378's can use over 120 gr. I haven't had the pleasure of shooting one of those. I was and still am fascinated by grossly overpowered rifles, but never used one as range toy. I seem to gotten over them. I hunted a couple of times with a 300WBY. It was very effective. But all of these type rifles are hunting tools first and foremost. IMO.

September 21, 2018, 07:07 PM	#41
agtman Junior member Join Date: July 26, 2001 Location: midwest Posts: 2,374	Dude, there are no 'cheapo' guns for pachyderms. Send $5-$6K to Wayne at AHR and ask for a .404 Jeffrey. He'll build you one from scratch off a base CZ 550 Magnum action, which he'll blueprint and hone for reliability. Everything added after that, like the 23" barrel, sights, or the incredibly beautiful stock, is custom. Then get yourself over to the Dark Continent and start killing enough elephants to impress Fredrick Selous, 'Ponodoro' Taylor, and Ernest Hemingway. Last edited by agtman; September 22, 2018 at 07:50 AM.

September 21, 2018, 08:03 PM	#42
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,446	Elephants are expensive to hunt. Primo safaris ain't cheap..... __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

September 22, 2018, 12:03 AM	#45
FindANewSlant Member Join Date: September 3, 2018 Posts: 33	Ruger Model 77 in .375 Ruger. __________________ Proprietor of https://michaelsgunsandsurvival.wordpress.com/

September 22, 2018, 08:37 AM	#47
the possum Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2004 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 555	You want something that will chuck a huge piece of lead for less than a thousand bucks. Hmmm... Have you considered something like this? 'Cause you might have to look pretty hard to beat a 2 1/4" bore. https://hernironworks.com/product/na...nnon12pounder/ Other options too. https://hernironworks.com/product/us...nnon-34-scale/ Hard to carry? That's why you have gun bearers!

September 25, 2018, 10:43 AM	#50
Rooster Leghorn Member Join Date: August 7, 2018 Posts: 22	When I have the urge to lob some heavy lead I grab my .444 Marlin. It is a flatter shooting round than a .45-70 but with about the same energy, depending on the bullet weight. The gun is less than 7 pounds empty and probably about 7.5 pounds fully loaded (5 rounds). Felt recoil is, shall we say, sufficient for me, but I've never fired anything bigger than a .45-70. Firing 20 rounds with the .444 is enough to leave dark bruises and cause me to wake up with a very sore shoulder the next day. I take it out about once a year for 20 rounds or to let my friends give it a try. Cost per round for a factory load is about $1.75 and up.