JB bore cleaning compound

[lugerstew]

I have about 500 rounds thru my savage 223 bolt gun, only boresnaking it when i get home from the range. Now im cleaning it to put it back in the safe, Im using JB bore cleaning compound and this is my second day of running patches thru this gun and they are all dark black still. How many hundreds of patches of this stuff does it take to have the patches come out clean? Im doing the method it describes on the jar, about 10 strokes with the compound and then a patch with Hoppes solvent and 2 dry patches then repeat.
My arm is getting sore.

[Unclenick]

JB is mildly abrasive, so like any metal polish, it will turn a patch black by picking up tiny particles of barrel metal. Try rubbing a patch with a little on a nail or other piece of steel and you can see it blacken. As a result, there is no way to get a white patch through the bore. If you are concerned there is still copper fouling left behind, you want to get a bore cleaner that turns blue when it acts on copper. If you are concerned there is still carbon present, Slip 2000 Carbon Killer is probably the best choice for you. JB will get it, and with a new barrel that polishing action can help reduce surface friction so copper sticks more gradually. It doesn't polish fast enough to change bore dimensions significantly during normal barrel life, though custom barrel makers recommend you don't do anything that changes the lapped surface roughness they leave in the bore at the end of their work on it.

What I do is put Bore Tech Eliminator in a small pump sprayer and at the end of my range session or match, I pump two or three squirts into the chamber and watch it run down to the muzzle. I put silicone stoppers in the muzzle and chamber and then put the gun in its case and go home. By the time I get there the gun is mostly if not entirely clean and I patch it out and repeat and let it sit an hour and patch it again, just to be sure. The Bore Tech product attacks copper so quickly that it will turn a brass jag light blue as you push it through the bore, so they make a special alloy jag called a Proof Positive jag you can get. But a plastic jag will also not react with the chemistry if you have one in .22.

This is not really a reloading question, so I will move the post to the Gear and Accessories forum, since cleaning items are accessories.

[mehavey]

Consider JB Bore paste to be BRASSO for barrels.
It will always turn black when rubbed onto metal.
Clean cloth/patches will then reveal a polished surface.

[Shadow9mm]

No, stop, don't! Jb is a mild abrasive. That dark black is metal you are removing from your barrel.

I use jb bore paste, but sparingly and only when needed and only after using regular cleaners. I use a regular bore cleaner. do a couple passes. If there is still some stubborn stuff in the gun that I just can't get out, then I break out the paste. But only one cycle, of 5-10 passes max.

[lugerstew]

Thanks for the info, geez, my barrel could be toast then, cuz i run about 200 patches thru it and a third of them were coated with JB bore paste.
I guess I will find out next time I take it out, It was a very accurate SS 26 inch,
1 in 7 twist.

[Bart B.]

Burning powder wears out the barrel 123.4 times as much as JB does.

My barrels that were frequently cleaned with JB lasted as long as those that weren't.

[Shadow9mm]

Originally Posted by Bart B.

Burning powder wears out the barrel 123.4 times as much as JB does.

My barrels that were frequently cleaned with JB lasted as long as those that weren't.

Thats good to know. with that said it is an abrasive. granted burning powder will wear out the throat faster. however JB removes metal all the way down the bore.

I think JB its a great product. However on my scale of my cleaners, it is the most aggressive. I always try to use the least aggressive first. Barrel safe ammonia free bore cleaners and a brush.

If there is still copper in the bore after 2-3 session of that I will do one set of 5-10 passes with the JB bore past. Followed by 40-60 passes with JB bore bright.

[stagpanther]

JB also makes a red bore bright which is a lighter abrasive for finishing bore treatment--I use both the paste and bore bright a lot.

[Bart B.]

Originally Posted by Shadow9mm

Thats good to know. with that said it is an abrasive. granted burning powder will wear out the throat faster. however JB removes metal all the way down the bore.

How much does the bore and groove diameters increase?

[JohnKSa]

Do you have some empirical bore dimension data that could be used to confirm or refute any information provided?

If you do, please provide it.

If you don't, what's the point of even asking the question?

[Bart B.]

Originally Posted by JohnKSa

Do you have some empirical bore dimension data that could be used to confirm or refute any information provided?

If you do, please provide it.

If you don't, what's the point of even asking the question?

It was claimed that JB removes metal all the way down the bore. Easily proved by periodically measuring the barrel inside diameters. Or observing faster accuracy degradation which didn't happen with my barrels.

If anyone can prove it damages the bore, tell Brownell about that.

https://www.brownells.com/gun-cleani...-prod1160.aspx

[JohnKSa]

It's even more easily proved by looking at the metal removed on the patches. I don't see any claims about how much dimensional change results.

[Carl the Floor Walker]

I do not shoot the 223. bolt, but for everything else, I use wipe-out. No scrubbing and few patches.

[JohnKSa]

Or observing faster accuracy degradation which didn't happen with my barrels.

If anyone can prove it damages the bore, tell Brownell about that.

https://www.brownells.com/gun-cleani...-prod1160.aspx

All this was added to your post after my response was posted which is why I only responded to the comment about dimensional changes to the bore.

Will JB cause noticeably faster accuracy degradation or bore damage when used as directed? I seriously doubt it--and I don't see anyone on this thread making that claim.

The context of this thread is someone doing literally hundreds of strokes through the bore with an abrasive in a single cleaning.

No one has said that JB shouldn't be used, only that it should be used as directed.

I think we can all agree that neither the makers of JB nor Brownells recommends 600+ passes through the bore in a single cleaning with JB.

[stagpanther]

but for everything else, I use wipe-out. No scrubbing and few patches.

I just bought some of their tactical advantage and accelerator to try out--doesn't do anything at all on my bores as far as I can tell, though that could be the result of the previous cleaners/protectants I've used. I learned my lesson with the CLR debacle to be very suspicious of cleaners that react with different chemicals/cleaners and require "exclusivity" of their use.

[Bart B.]

Originally Posted by JohnKSa

It's even more easily proved by looking at the metal removed on the patches. I don't see any claims about how much dimensional change results.

If metal is removed, that hole in the barrel is bigger in diameter.

[MarkCO]

Originally Posted by Shadow9mm

No, stop, don't! Jb is a mild abrasive. That dark black is metal you are removing from your barrel.

I use jb bore paste, but sparingly and only when needed and only after using regular cleaners. I use a regular bore cleaner. do a couple passes. If there is still some stubborn stuff in the gun that I just can't get out, then I break out the paste. But only one cycle, of 5-10 passes max.

Yep. This is absolutely true.

Burning powder wears out the barrel 123.4 times as much as JB does.

This is absolutely false.

[gwpercle]

You can stop now !

Clean as per instructions on the jar ...and inspect the barrel ... only repeat if the barrel is still fouled .

I had a Mil Surp 7 X 57 Model 93 Spanish Mauser with a barrel that looked like an old sewer pipe ...horrible codition ... but enough work with JB Bore compound got it back in deer hunting shape ... in fact my first 3 shot group could be covered by a quarter ...off hand , iron sights at 75 yards and it was getting dark ...
...JB Bore Compound made me a believer .
Gary

( the patch with JB Compound will never "come clean" )

[Shadow9mm]

Originally Posted by Bart B.

It was claimed that JB removes metal all the way down the bore. Easily proved by periodically measuring the barrel inside diameters. Or observing faster accuracy degradation which didn't happen with my barrels.

If anyone can prove it damages the bore, tell Brownell about that.

https://www.brownells.com/gun-cleani...-prod1160.aspx

If used as directed, no it will not damage the gun. But it is also important to understand what it is, how it works/cleans.

Is is a mild abrasive intended to scrub out stubborn copper and carbon fouling. Abrasives don't chose what they work on. If you out it down a squeaky clean barrel it will turn black, indicating it polished, abraded the barrel surface.

JB is applied on patches from breach to muzzle. If you are applying it to the entire bore, and is is an abrasive it will remove metal from breach to muzzle. No empirical data or measuring needed. How much, not much I suspect, but based on how it works and where it is applies it does.

In regards to the OP. I think the gun will be fine. You stated about 200 patches of which abut 1/3 were JB bore past meaning approximately 66 patches. While not ideal this is only equal to about 6-7 normal cleaning sessions. I doubt you harmed anything but I would not recommend going that aggressively on a normal basis.

Get a cheap bore scope. See what is actually going on in the barrel. get a good bore cleaner preferably one that works on copper and is bore safe (no ammonia)

I am partial to bore tech eliminator as it works on carbon and copper. you can let it soak as long as you want and it will not hurt the barrel. The thing with it is it will react to brass jags and copper/bronze brushes so you may need to get a fancy jag and a nylon brush. With heavy copper fouling I have found I needed to go through the cleaning steps 2-3 times letting it sit about 30min to 1hr between sessions to get the bore back to brand new.

I use the bore paste and bore bright as a finishing step after normal cleaning if I have any stubborn deposits that just down want to come off.

[mehavey]

Originally Posted by OP

... i run about 200 patches thru it and a third
of them were coated with JB bore paste.

How many strokes (in/out = 1 stroke) with each of those JB patches?

[JohnKSa]

If metal is removed, that hole in the barrel is bigger in diameter.

1. There is no doubt that metal being removed. It's visible on the patches.

2. It is absolutely true that the barrel dimensions will be altered with each pass using JB Bore Paste. I doubt the means to measure barrel dimensions to the accuracy required to note the metal loss from a few passes even exists. Maybe with several hundred passes there are some specialized methods that would work.

You stated about 22 patches of which abut 1/3 were JB bore past meaning approximately 66 patches.

He said about 200 patches with about 1/3 (say 66) using JB Bore Paste and 10 strokes each with those patches. That's somewhere between 600 and 700 passes.

You mentioned that you sometimes used 1 patch of JB Bore Paste with 5-10 passes during a cleaning if you noticed stubborn fouling.

Let's say that a typical cleaning with JB Bore Paste is 2 patches with 10 strokes each for a total of 20 strokes. The OP has done the equivalent of 20-30 such cleanings.

[mehavey]

I wouldn't worry about it until the Op's shot it

(Probably no worse than a Tubb's final Finish/5-grit session --
which I've always found helpful in a rough or unlapped bore)

[lugerstew]

Ya, unfortunately i did about 50 patches, 10 strokes each as it says on the jar, when they said use sparingly, i stupidly thought that meant don't put too much on the patch. And I also was thinking that the black on the patch was carbon from burnt powder, so I admit again, I screwed up and will never do that again.
Like someone said, it must have been a total of 500 to 600 total JB strokes.
If I remember, I will post on here whenever I take that gun out of the safe and shoot it again, and report on the damage.
Thanks everyone

[stagpanther]

Ya, unfortunately i did about 50 patches, 10 strokes each as it says on the jar, when they said use sparingly, i stupidly thought that meant don't put too much on the patch. And I also was thinking that the black on the patch was carbon from burnt powder, so I admit again, I screwed up and will never do that again.
Like someone said, it must have been a total of 500 to 600 total JB strokes.
If I remember, I will post on here whenever I take that gun out of the safe and shoot it again, and report on the damage.
Thanks everyone

I think you are unnecessarily freaking out. I'm not metallurgy expert--I can say with certainty that if you are pulling patches out with heavy black gunk you are removing residue from your bore and grooves. Is some of this removing steel as well? Maybe, but to say it's removing more steel than super-heated gases and metal objects being compressed into the bore and grooves at high pressures every time you pull the trigger--umm, I seriously seriously doubt it.

[MarkCO]

Originally Posted by stagpanther

I think you are unnecessarily freaking out. I'm not metallurgy expert--I can say with certainty that if you are pulling patches out with heavy black gunk you are removing residue from your bore and grooves. Is some of this removing steel as well? Maybe, but to say it's removing more steel than super-heated gases and metal objects being compressed into the bore and grooves at high pressures every time you pull the trigger--umm, I seriously seriously doubt it.

Metals, exposes to air, form a protective layer. Aluminum more than Stainless, Stainless more than Carbon Steel.

In most cases, the heavy chunky stuff, yes, is carbon, but there is not a lot of that in a bore of a rifle in the first place. When it is just uniformly black, that is iron oxide. Cleaning solvents neutralize and remove the oxidized layer. That does tend to smooth out the bore and was why, a long time ago, some barrels did improve with a break in procedure by effectively increasing slightly the bore diameter. When a bore gets properly fouled, the copper layer coats/fills in and "protects" the steel from erosion and oxidation in the majority of the bore, just not the first 1/2" or so where the copper does not get deposited, and instead quenched carbon does, but that does not protect the leade and lands.