Bushmaster still not able to shoot MOA

[BC Buck]

I post that my XM-15-e2s shot closer to 2" than 1" at 100 yards. You guys suggested free float and quality trigger. Went out and shot under 1" groups with 4 different powders thinking im good to go. Went back too the range to fine tune hand loads and not able to duplicate accuracy. Averaged 1.3" to just over 1.1". Looking through records shows my accurate loads where me using neck sized brass loaded 1 at a time buy hand.
Im thinking combination of loose millspect tolerances and chrome lined barrel is going to keep this gun from shooting better. Is new barrel the next thing to try?

[Nathan]

That is amazing accuracy for a 5 shot Bushmaster AR!

CL CHF barrels are usually more 2” rifles.

[BC Buck]

Originally Posted by Nathan

That is amazing accuracy for a 5 shot Bushmaster AR!

CL CHF barrels are usually more 2” rifles.

This is my coyote gun. When I miss I want to be able to blame myself.

[VoodooMountain]

1.3” groups translate to about a 500 yard accuracy potential for a killshot on a coyote .

How far out are you shooting?

If you want a real tack driver I would build another upper all together

[jimbob86]

PII.

Preoccupation (with) Inconsequential Increments.

Work on the weakest link in the chain..... skills. At the point you can hold that rifle from field positions to 1.5MOA consistently, then build a better rifle or load or whatever.


If you miss a 'yote at typical ranges with 1.5 MOA rifle, it won't be because it wasn't a 1 MOA rifle ....

[HiBC]

Remember a 1.5 MOA rifle only misses the point of aim,worst case,by 3/4 MOA..
But,regardless,its what you want. I'll start there.

Yes,build or buy a top end. I've heard the stripped Aero rifles shoot .They are low cost. For $600 or so,see what you get.

I would not go chrome lined. I'd go HBAR .Longer is limper,IMO. 20 in max on the bbl.
If you build your own,it CAN be good,but you can mess up,not have the best tool,etc.Best to buy your barrel with a matched bolt.

I'm not sure it matters a lot,but VTOR uppers might be a little beefier/more rigid than the generic $69 upper.
What bullets do you shoot? Do a reasonable job of matching twist to bullet weight. There are some limits to how heavy expanding bullets can be had.
If a 60 gr Varmint Ballistic Tip is your bullet,a 1 in 7 might not be the first choice.But for 75 grs plus,1 in 8 or 7,is good.

Something like an SPR,SDMR,or the legal match profiles..

I don't know the newer minor labels...I'd look at White Oak.
Maybe Wilson Combat.These are under $300.If you have a big wallet,Kreiger works.
In theory,a rigid buttstock is better. I suppose I'd go Wylde chamber.

No guarantees,though!

Muzzle attachments? I'd suggest an unthreaded barrel.A pickle does not have to hurt accuracy,but it can. Its unlikely to improve accuracy.

[rickyrick]

If it’s got a good zero, go hunting with it. The best parts of coyote hunting doesn’t involve the trigger
Nothing wrong with a basic carbine that can shoot less than 2”

[Nathan]

Best to buy your barrel with a matched bolt.

Why? I asked around....seems like matched bolt means they confirmed with a headspace gauge. So, it seems like it is cheaper to just get the gauges. Most bolts will match to a quality barrel. Just saying...

Still, under MOA will require some investment in reloading and/or match ammo.

[Wyosmith]

I have made a LOT of ARs as a full time gunsmith over the last 15-17 years or so. And many if not most were made for the prairie dog shooters here in Wyoming, so sub MOA us the goal of most of them. I own 2 in 223 myself of my own workmanship. One is a super accurate carbine with a stainless hand lapped barrel and with my best loads it shoots about 1/2" for 5 shots. The other one is a pencil barreled 16" carbine with a 1964 mil-spec barrel in it. It shoots about like yours does. I can get 1.3 MOA from it with good loads.

Guess which one I have killed the most coyotes with.

Yup, the 1.3 MOA shooter. Why?

It's faster to get into action. The more accurate gun weighs about 9-3/4 pounds and the light barreled gun weighs 6-3/4 with the scope and mount. The heavier high accuracy gun would reach farther but as HiBC and JimBob both said (and are correct) 1.3 MOA will allow me to kill a coyote out to about 500 years if I do everything right.

Almost all the coyotes I kill are on the run. So the higher level of accuracy of my heavier AR is really not going to help me when you look at the likelihood of me zigging when I need to zig, or zagging when I need to zig. I stand a 50% 50% chance of the circumstances working to my favor with the light gun just as I have the same 50% 50% chance of them working against me.and ARs are autos so I often kill a coyote even if I miss the 1st shot. The 2nd gets him, and every now and then I have killed one on the 3rd shot.

Yes I have killed a few standing coyotes with various rifles at 400+ yards over the last 30 years, but I have killed A LOT more at 200 yards and under as they try to run.

When I go outside and walk my land I don't take the heavier gun. I don't usually take it out in the 4Runner either. I take the light one. I have not missed very many with it either. I take my heavy AR along with my SAKO 222 in the spring for Prairie Dogs and sometimes I take it out if I am going calling. But in the last 10 years I bet I have not killed 10 coyotes with my heavy AR. I have probably killed 80 or 100 with the light one.

The light AR is easier to "get into the fight" (to barrow some old terminology) And if a man has skill at the basics, he's likely to kill what ever he shoots at. More important, a fast rifle is likely to get you shots at closer targets which are easier to hit then far targets. (because it's faster to get into the action) The rifle may be less accurate, but it may make you more accurate. Gear is not the answer in 99% of the cases. Marksmanship and smooth gun handling is.

Do this test and see if I am right:
Get any rifle you can beg or barrow that you know shoots well under MOA and then take your 1.3 MOA AR out to a range and bring 20 rounds for each gun. Set out eight 4" diameter targets at 50 100 200 and 300 yards. Shoot at them all with both guns but DO NOT use a rest. Only use sitting, kneeling, prone, and offhand shooting positions. 5 rounds at each target with each rifle. 40 rounds total. See if you do any better at all with the Sub MOA shooter when it's all about YOU doing the shooting and not your rifle.
You will not have a bench rest in the field when you shoot at coyotes so make the test realistic.

I think you'll find the light AR is as good (and maybe better) than the super accurate rifle at actually hitting the targets from real hunting positions.
Try it and see.

It's always 98% the man and 2% what he is shooting.

[Mobuck]

"Still, under MOA will require some investment in reloading and/or match ammo."

Uhh, not here. Between my Son and myself, we have at least 1/2 dozen AR's (both off the shelf and home made) that consistently shoot under MOA with choice factory varmint type loads and moderate power scopes. Son's groups with 4 or 5x scope are similar to mine with 9x simply because his eyes are better than mine.
Unless the OP is using a decent optic of at least 4x, I'd say the 1"-2" groups are average to good. BTW, I wouldn't consider groups achieved by single loading to be viable.

[HiBC]

(HiBC)Best to buy your barrel with a matched bolt.

(Nathan)Why? I asked around....seems like matched bolt means they confirmed with a headspace gauge.

Well,Nathan,while you were asking around,I was building rifles and learning things.

I bought a top name brand cut rifled competition grade SDMR barrel with matching bolt once.It had a manufacturing issue. They said "Send it back" and sent me another barrel...without a bolt.
I had 4 bolts,but I had not yet bought gauges.My local Gunsmith is good to me. All 4 bolts spun on his No_go gauge.
"Send it back" they said. I did.They took care of me.These guys did take good care of me.

But this wasted a few weeks. Headspace gauges are good.I have mine now.

But they won't fix anything.

You can certainly do it your way. If I have a matched bolt,we can build a rifle that day

If your gauges catch an out of spec chamber,you play UPS tag. You can't build a rifle.
You can listen to the advice you get.

I think my advice is better.

[GeauxTide]

My factory Bushmaster 450 shoots 5 shot 1/2" at 100 with factory Hornady. I've got components for loading, but still have 3 boxes of factory left.

[ed308]

Whats the twist on the barrel? And what bullets are you using? If free float, good trigger, and decent glass I think even a chrome line barrel from the bench will shoot tighter groups. But shooter's ability is always a big factor.

[BC Buck]

Originally Posted by ed308

Whats the twist on the barrel? And what bullets are you using? If free float, good trigger, and decent glass I think even a chrome line barrel from the bench will shoot tighter groups. But shooter's ability is always a big factor.

1-9" 56gr. I can shoot .5" groups with bolt.

[stagpanther]

I would say any real chrome-lined barrel that's shooting 1 to 1.5 MOA is doin just fine. I had a bushie that wouldn't even come close to that.

[Art Eatman]

For a coyote gun, I'd stay with the handloads that have been found to give the best groups. You don't need all that many rounds for any one hunt.

(In college, those many decades ago, I loaded for my '06 with a Lyman 310 tong tool. That's the definition of slow. )

Even with the larger-grouping loads, what's important is that the first shot from a clean, cold barrel will reliably have the POI/POA be the same. IOW, know that the first shot will hit.

[rickyrick]

I hunted yotes with a Mini14 first cold bore shot was always exactly perfect.
As Art said above. Zero it for that cold shot and you’ll be gravy.

I’m not good at hitting freaked out running coyotes.
I found that a good swift flick of the safety would cause the coyote to pause. A hoot, bark or chirp will cause them to pause long enough for a good shot too.
Most will beat feet and vanish quickly if you miss. A few will ignore a gunshot. I’ve had a couple of coyotes show after killing a pig.
Experimented once with a squealing pig call for pigs. I was suspecting that it wouldn’t work on pigs and it turned out to be a correct assumption. It did bring a curious coyote in.

[Road_Clam]

Originally Posted by BC Buck

I post that my XM-15-e2s shot closer to 2" than 1" at 100 yards. You guys suggested free float and quality trigger. Went out and shot under 1" groups with 4 different powders thinking im good to go. Went back too the range to fine tune hand loads and not able to duplicate accuracy. Averaged 1.3" to just over 1.1". Looking through records shows my accurate loads where me using neck sized brass loaded 1 at a time buy hand.
Im thinking combination of loose millspect tolerances and chrome lined barrel is going to keep this gun from shooting better. Is new barrel the next thing to try?

I have 5 different configured AR's from a std 16" carbine all the way up to a 24" Varmint. If you are chasing a CONSISTIANT moa AR you need a match barrel and a quality trigger. The average shooter is NOT going to see moa with a std carbine or 20" A2. I have logged over 300 handload combos for my 20" match service rifle and my 24" Varmint and still will NOT claim consistiant "moa" (although I am very close to moa with my 20" service rifle but I still have bad days at the range)

[BC Buck]

Originally Posted by Road_Clam

I have 5 different configured AR's from a std 16" carbine all the way up to a 24" Varmint. If you are chasing a CONSISTIANT moa AR you need a match barrel and a quality trigger. The average shooter is NOT going to see moa with a std carbine or 20" A2. I have logged over 300 handload combos for my 20" match service rifle and my 24" Varmint and still will NOT claim consistiant "moa" (although I am very close to moa with my 20" service rifle but I still have bad days at the range)

Your making me think to put my money towards a .223 bolt gun.

[rickyrick]

Your rifle still has acceptable and expected accuracy for what it is.

[80viking]

.223 is very sensitive to billet wt. A 1-9 twist barrel will like bullets on the heavey side. I would start with 69gr SMK's.

[ed308]

80viking nailed it. I've got 3 ARP .223 Wylde barrels that shoot .5 MOA with 69 and 77 gr Nosler Costum Comp bullets. But all are free floating, have good triggers, decent glass and muzzle brake installed. Being the sensitive type, I need the muzzle break. Plus, I got to skip the coffee on the way to the range!

[pete2]

Back in the day I thought all the holes had to at least touch. Taint necessary for a hunting rifle 1.3 is tough enough.

[rickyrick]

1.3 is good enough as everyone says. Time to go out scouting your hunting area.

A few days of quiet observation will be more fruitful than chasing an itty bitty group. If all goes well you may not need the second shot or third shot.

[Nanuk]

At any kind of distance wind is going to affect the 5.56 more than that.