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June 14, 2017, 11:44 AM | #1 |
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Need help choosing a 20" AR for FIL
Let me start by saying that I know absolutely nothing about ARs, so any help will have to be dumbed down, a lot.
With that being said, My Father-in-Law served in Vietnam in '68 and over the years has commented on how he would like to have a rifle like he was issued and I thought I would try to surprise him with one. He has mentioned that he would prefer a 20" A1 but said he wouldn't turn down an A2 if the price was cheap enough. He said he could always put A1 furniture on an A2 if he wanted the "original" look. I can't afford what people are asking for a Colt SP1 and am not knowledgeable enough to build one for him, so I started looking for new production. He would mostly use it for punching holes in paper and some nostalgia. Can anyone tell me the pros and cons of either of these: Bushmaster 90325 E2S M4A3 Target Rifle - $769.01 PSA AR-15 20" 5.56 NATO Classic A2 Rifle - 7781739 - $879.99 I am not a rich man, so at the risk of sounding cheap, both of these are at the top of my budget, so are there better options for less? What manufacturers should I look at/stay away from? What type of barrel should I look for/stay away from? Thanks in advance and sorry for all the questions, (I am sure I will have more), but as previously stated, I know absolutely nothing about the AR platform and he only talks about Colt, which I can't afford. |
June 14, 2017, 12:31 PM | #2 |
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Between the two, I'd get the Palmetto State Armory. Great rifles. Bushmaster has gone downhill since the Freedom Group bought them.
Another option would be to buy the complete Palmetto freedom 20" upper for $299, and wait for their fixed stock lower to come back in stock. They usually sell for about $200. So you'll be at $499 plus the A3 carrying handle to complete the look. I know you said you can't build one, but putting together an upper and lower is literally pushing two pins.
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June 14, 2017, 04:17 PM | #3 |
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Thanks for the quick reply. That does sound like a great option cost wise and is definitely on the list to consider.
I apologize if this sounds rude, (please do not take it that way), but I want to make sure the one I buy for him is the nicest and best one I can afford. So, what else is out there to look at? Are there other manufacturers ? Is the 4150V Chrome Moly Vanadium barrel a good barrel? Should I look for an upper with a chrome lined barrel or a melonite barrel? Are they overrated? I'm trying to learn but google is overwhelming for a newbie with no compass. |
June 14, 2017, 04:37 PM | #4 |
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Here is a CHF premium rifle kit for $599 with free shipping from PSA. All you need is a stripped lower and a carry handle.
You could pay someone a few bucks to put it together if need be. http://palmettostatearmory.com/20-ha...rifle-kit.html |
June 14, 2017, 04:47 PM | #5 |
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At the risk of sounding dumb, is the premium rifle kit for $599 better? and if so, how/why?
What should I look for in a stripped lower? |
June 14, 2017, 04:51 PM | #6 |
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Stuka, I think the PSA you listed for 875 is the nicest option. The chrome lined barrel is great, and my PSA barrels have proved to be quite accurate.
The PSA freedom is a little cheaper due to the barrel. The melonite/nitride costs less, but I've found them to be just as good, if not slightly more accurate. 20" A2 rifles are limited these days, they're not tacticool enough for folks these days. I think PSA is your best bet for this price range, tied with maybe the Windham Weaponry. I've got the exact upper used on these rifles and it's excellent. https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...93004/redirect
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June 14, 2017, 04:54 PM | #7 |
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The premium kit he listed has an FN made cold hammer forged barrel. Some of the best barrels available. Pair that with the $50 PSA stripped lower and you'd have the best rifle listed so far.
Assembling a lower is easy stuff, just watch a YouTube video and you can do it in less than an hour.
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June 14, 2017, 11:52 PM | #8 |
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I agree that the PSA premium rifle kit is the best option, especially for the money. Assembling a lower is easy, but I will admit, you might have to buy a few tools to do a GOOD and clean job.
But if your up to the challenge, I think there is no better option. Also. I would recommend PSA's carry handle rear sight. It is made from quality materials and is a decent price for what it is. Dont bother with the cheap low quality made in china ones you find everywhere else... Nor is it worth it to pay extra for one from BCM and other places. |
June 15, 2017, 05:47 AM | #9 |
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Mmmmmm, retro AR's. I was on a kick a few years ago and put together a few retro AR's back when you could get a very nice demilled A1 kits for $250. Those days are long gone now and I would agree that the PSA kit is probably going to be your best bet.
Here is a couple of pics of my builds to give you a little inspiration: M16E1. The only parts I had to add was the E1 style lower, three prong flash hider and the barrel. Even the finish on the upper is the original finish. M16A1. This is probably what your FIL carried in the late sixties. Another gun that is original except for the barrel and lower. |
June 15, 2017, 10:06 PM | #10 |
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Those are some nice looking rifles. Wish I had the money or know how to get him a rifle like that.
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June 15, 2017, 11:03 PM | #11 | |
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Quote:
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June 15, 2017, 11:49 PM | #12 |
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It means the shelf under the rear take-down pin is taller. So you can't put in a drop-in auto sear.
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June 16, 2017, 10:11 AM | #13 |
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OP, now might be the time. I'd pair this lower
http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-p...-receiver.html With one of these uppers. First one of you want to save a little money, second one if you want closer to mil-spec http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-2...-handle-1.html http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-2...dle-30796.html
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June 16, 2017, 02:58 PM | #14 |
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Thanks for the options. Based on the specs, it seems the only difference is how the barrel is finished and if it is lined or not. Is that correct?
The options I see are Nitride/not chrome lined or Phosphate/chrome lined. Is that correct? Which finish is better for an AR? Nitrate or Phosphate? Thanks again. |
June 16, 2017, 05:24 PM | #15 |
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The premium CHF upper may also have a better spec'd Bolt carrier group. But I can honestly say I have never had a problem with the freedom spec BCG I have from PSA.
The main difference is the barrel. The steel is the same, 4150cmv, but the coatings/treatments are different. The chrome lining is a coating of chrome in the barrel for protection. The nitride/melonite is a hardening treatment, not requiring a coating. The Melonite may be more accurate, but I doubt you'd notice a difference since the CHF barrel is FN made and very nice quality. Both will last longer than is needed. The Melonite barrel will also be a satin black, whereas the phosphated barrel will be a matte grey/black.
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”Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.” ~Unknown |
June 17, 2017, 08:51 AM | #16 |
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I prefer a .223 Wylde chamber barrel for improved accuracy compared to 5.56 Nato barrels. It's best described as being in between the the 5.56 Nato chamber and the .223 Remington chamber. The .223 Wylde chamber is a modified SAAMI-spec .223 chamber that allows for the safe use of 5.56 NATO rounds, but has tighter tolerances for better accuracy. If shooting manufacture ammo, you'll probably never notice much of a difference. But it you reload, you'll likely see increased accuracy with a .223 Wylde chambered barrel. (For the record, a .223 Wylde chamber barrel can safely shoot either 5.56 Nato or .223 ammo. The 5.56 Nato chamber barrels can also safely shoot .233 and 5.56 ammo. But .223 chambered barrels cannot safely shoot 5.56 Nato ammo.)
Melonite (or Nitrate) finished barrels. That would be my pick over Chrome lined barrel. Since the interior of the barrel is coated with chrome, accuracy can be degraded. A Melonite treated barrel is a salt bath treatment which doesn't add material to the barrel. It supposedly makes the barrel steel harder and more corrosion resistant. Is that true? I really don't know but I do know that every melonite treated barrel I've owned is more accurate than any chrome lined barrels I've owned. Use care when cleaning a melonite treated barrel. Products like Rust-X, Bullfrog Rust and some brake cleaners can discolor the finish on a melonite barrel. Regular gun solvents and oils won't damage the finish. |
June 17, 2017, 02:08 PM | #17 |
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PSA has pretty good products at awesome prices.
I recommend using them if you are on a budget. I have not one complaint about the products that I have gotten from them. As I read the OP's comment I have to give this advice when buying from PSA online: please, please get a prepaid card to use with PSA. |
June 17, 2017, 02:37 PM | #18 |
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As I read the OP's comment I have to give this advice when buying from PSA online: please, please get a prepaid card to use with PSA.
What's your reason for the prepaid card? I've purchased a lot of PSA stuff over the years. Never had much of problem except once when they ran out stock. Sometimes they can be slow to ship. But they prices are hard to beat. Joe Bob and Primary Arms have also gotten a lot of my money. They always ship fast. |
June 17, 2017, 03:11 PM | #19 |
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Need help choosing a 20" AR for FIL
They have someone there that rips off bank accounts, pretty common occurrence if you google it.
I wish I had gotten the same advice, it happened to me twice and the last time was no doubt that PSA was the source. First time I'm pretty sure was PSA too. |
June 17, 2017, 04:08 PM | #20 |
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Wow. Never had that happen to me at PSA but I usually order online without interaction with a person. That did happen to me at Midway when I had to call in about my order and give my card number. All to common these days.
Last edited by ed308; June 17, 2017 at 05:15 PM. |
June 17, 2017, 04:19 PM | #21 |
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I don't want to bash them, but the op says he doesn't have much money. I'm not rich either and it kinda sux when you're trying to buy groceries and find out your card doesn't work. It was last year, hopefully it's fixed.
I have USAA, it's easy to open another account with a low balance to make online purchases with. I bought a 6.8 bolt from them a few months ago with no problem, but I used a different account. I love their products, but I won't gamble my bank account with them any more. |
June 17, 2017, 05:17 PM | #22 |
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I won't use my debit card for online purchases. Nor pay bills via my phone. Call me old school. I just won't take the chance of my card getting tied up. I've have my CC account stolen a several times. Usually the bank catches it. But I caught one once when I notice small charges coming from places I'd not shopped. Called the bank. They close the account and sent me a new card.
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June 17, 2017, 06:53 PM | #23 |
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Stukaju87,
The links DobC-Hicks posted are another very good rout to go. No need to build one when you can just order the complete upper and lower. The CHF upper has a "Cold Hammer Forged" FN "Machine gun steel" barrel. That barrel should be considerably better than the melonite one. It should last longer/hold up to more rounds, and it should be a very accurate barrel. I'm sure the melonite one would be fine though, it is considerably less expensive and should probably be plenty accurate and able to withstand lots of rounds too... I have no way to say which one would last longer or be more accurate, but I think if you were looking for the BEST, the CHF would be your best bet. If you want to save some money, I'm sure the other melonite upper would still be a very good choice. |
June 17, 2017, 07:15 PM | #24 |
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I have no doubt that rickyrick has had problems with his card with PSA. It appears others have as well. That being said, I've spent thousands there, over quite a few years. I haven't had one problem with them.
Honestly, between the CHF and melonite, I'd get the CHF. The chrome lining and FN barrels are time proven. And still quite accurate. When building my girlfriend a rifle, I went with a melonite PSA barrel since I knew it wouldn't get tons of rounds put through it. It's also proven to be pretty accurate, printing 1.5moa average groups from a 16" gov't profile barrel.
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June 17, 2017, 08:01 PM | #25 |
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I have a chf barrel from them, actually it was a kit. It was great.
I have spent $1000's there too. Still get stuff from there, but not as often. I'm careful when I do. |
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