Reloading 30-06 for Hunting/Shooting

[ninosdemente]

My first ever rifle is my current Savage Model 111 in 30-06. When this was my first bolt action, I purchased Nosler BT in 150 gr and 165 gr, also Hornady FMJ BT 150 gr in 100 quaitities (1 of each) when started/wanted to reload. This was going to be my hunting and shooting at the time. Now not so much shooting as I had hoped for which is fine for me. Too much pounding on shoulder, plus now I have other rifles I use for shooting. But do shoot it sometimes. Not sure if better off not shooting it since this is for hunting. After learning about this rifle from members providing input here, I know its a thin barrel.

I still have about 70 Hornady FMJ and am going to load those at starting load just to finish those off using IMR 4064. Never tested for groupings/optimal load. Have to admit, am curious though just my shoulder might say otherwise and not sure if I can get use to testing different loads for this projectile.

I have about 25 left of the Nosler BT 150 gr and all 100 of the Nosler BT 165 gr. For those that load for hunting what do you look/test for? If hunting it should really just take one well placed shot, right? Well at least that is the idea, if everything goes right.

This rifle was purchased at Gander Mountain when it was closing so after a while of searching after getting the rifle found out that it's a Trophy Hunter XP.

https://www.cabelas.com/product/Sava...8.uts?slotId=1

[ReloadKy]

For hunting, I suggest looking for a load (with a hunting bullet) that your rifle shoots accurately. For example, I can get my 30-06 to consistently print sub moa groups with IMR 4350 and 165 gr Nosler ballistic tips. I have shot a specific load several times at 100 and 200 and had great results. So I know my gun likes this combo so I feel confident taking this load to the deer woods! Good luck finding a load that your rifle will shoot and keep us updated.

[std7mag]

Nino,
I would absolutely agree with Reloadky!
Go with one of the 4350 powders (i prefer IMR, but the others will work just fine also), and the 165gr Nosler Ballistic Tip.
My old Savage 110 loved those!
Deer hate them.
I never once had to track a deer with that combo. That with shots out to 300 yards.

[ninosdemente]

Thanks guys for the help. Well glad still haveNosler BT 165gr to test. Will wait on the other projectiles and just concentrate on the hunting 165gr. I do have a 1lb of IMR 4350 I was going to use for 6.5 Creedmoor but will try it out for this rifle instead.

I start my loads from the bottom and work up in .5 increments of 5 shots per group (5 groups total) on the other rifles... seems that I will probably do the same for the 165gr.

[std7mag]

While i don't shoot groups while ladder testing, your on the right path.

From my experience the BT usually shoot best about 0.020" off the lands.

Don't forget to check out www.accurateshooter.com and search for Savage action tuning.
Really does make a difference!

[T. O'Heir]

A 165 grain hunting bullet will kill any game in North America. Partial to IMR4064 for .30-06 myself.
"...I start my loads from..." Yep. And 5 is good, but a mag load(as in 4 if that's what your rifle holds) will do too. Do not expect one hole groups. They're not necessary for hunting. 2 or 3 inches at 100 will do for deer sized game. Consistency is far more important.
Once you have found the most accurate load, practice, off hand, on a 9" pie plate, at 100 yards until you can hit it every time. The kill zone on a deer and most other game is about 9".
"...ladder testing..." Doesn't test the actual accuracy of any particular load. The ladder test only tests POI in comparison to other loads.

[ninosdemente]

Std7mag, what is Savage action tuning and how does it improve the rifle. Thanks for the link.

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T. O'Heir, since I do have the IMR 4064 I am going to test both powders. Correct, my rifle holds 4 and will do a test of 4.... will be easier on my shoulder for sure. What is best way to test for consistency or for accuracy in a load then? Seems I might have some ideas completely wrong then...

[Paul B.]

I've probably done more hunting with a 30-06 than any other cartridge. Don't recall how many deer but it would be quite a truck full. The last animal I killed with the 30-06 was a cow elk at roughly 100 yards three years ago. Bullet was the 165 gr. Nosler Accubond over a charge of 56.0 gr. W760,WLR primer and Winchester brass. velocity 2880 FPS from the 24" barrel of my custom Mauser. The bullet hit right at the short ribs and ended up in the left lung destroying it. The elk went maybe 30 feet give or take and expired.

JMHO but I don't much care for 150 gr. bullets, the cup and core type usually tearing up good eating meat. I don't use the 30-06 much anymore as I only hunt elk and my main elk rifle is another custom Mauser in .35 Whelen.

I also noted that recoil was a bit of a problem. Is there a recoil pad on your rifle? If so, you might want to replace it with a Pachmeyr Decelerator. I put one on a Remington M700 BDL that came with a plastic butt plate and it made a big difference. You can also get a Past recoil pad that slips on like a shoulder holster. I use one when I shoot some of my big and nasty kickers. I don't know what kind of rest you use but if you're shooting off a bench the higher the front and rear rests are the less recoils hurts. Those guys who regulate those big bore double rifle elephant guns use a rest that allows them to shoot standing up. Funny thing about recoil. If you're shooting at game, odds are you won't even notice it.
Paul B.

[Rimfire5]

I have a CZ 550 in .30-06 that shoots pretty accurately.
When I got it I expected it to shoot 150 grain bullets well, but after testing and recording group sizes, I found that it was much more accurate with 175 grain bullets and heavier, up to 210 grains. Any of the weights were good enough for hunting but the 175s were more accurate, had more kinetic energy, and the recoil was acceptable.

Remember, when you're hunting, your barrel will be cold (probably very cold) and you probably will only get one shot, so you need to sight your rifle in when the barrel is cold. It doesn't do any good to have adjusted your scope after a long sight-in period after several shots with the the barrel heating up. The barrel won't be warm when you take the shot that counts.

I am also a firm believer in making sure the barrel is fouled before I go hunting. The first round out of most of my unfouled, recently cleaned barrels is high. Not a good recipe for your placement when you finally have game in your sights with a cold, unfouled barrel.

Another thing you need to consider is the choice of an extreme powder that will work pretty much the same way in the summer and early fall when you are testing loads and in the cold of winter when you're hunting and freezing in a blind or stalking in the woods.

H4350 worked best in my 30-06, and since it is an extreme powder, the decision was easy. IMR4350 isn't an extreme powder and will change velocity by about 150 to 155 fps from 0 to 125 deg. F. H4350 changes about 1/10 of that over the same temperature range so the decision was an easy one.

IMR4064, H4895 and the range of slightly faster powders that shoot great in my .308 shoot OK in my .30-06 but the slower powders like H4350, IMR4350, RL-17 and RL19 are more accurate in my rifle. I went with an extreme powder for obvious reasons.

[Bart B.]

Originally Posted by Rimfire5

Remember, when you're hunting, your barrel will be cold (probably very cold) and you probably will only get one shot, so you need to sight your rifle in when the barrel is cold. It doesn't do any good to have adjusted your scope after a long sight-in period after several shots with the the barrel heating up. The barrel won't be warm when you take the shot that counts.

If a good barrel is correctly fit to the receiver, it will shoot to point of aim starting cold to very hot across a couple dozen shots fired several times a minute.

[std7mag]

The action tuning is just that.
Once you find your powder charge, and seating depth for group sizes, you tune your action.
Luckily, it only needs to be done once. Doesn't matter which bullet or weight of bullet.
Load some rounds for shooting groups.
I can't remember off the top of my head which screw on the action you adjust.
The article will describe which one.

One screw gets tightened to 35 inlb.
The other you unscrew, then tighten to 10 inlb. (If i remember correctly)
Shoot your first group.
Tighten screw 5 inlb. Shoot group.
Repeat.
You will see the groups tighten up, then at certain point start to spread out again.
Adjust torque on screw to your smallest group.

And if i have a rifle that shoots 2, much less 3 inches at 100 yards, i'm either doing work on the rifle, or selling the thing!

[Rimfire5]

Bart B.

Your right for a rifle that was built for accuracy. You have lots of experience with barrels that are well fitted to receivers.

However, the OP is referring to his first rifle that is stock, out of the box.
What is the probability that an 'off the shelf' rifle is fit to the receiver to your standards?

I believe that the OP with a factory stock and a mass produced action that has not been bedded will probably see signs of POI change due to temperature and fouling.
He needs to be given some help to be prepared for that.

[44 AMP]

If a good barrel is correctly fit to the receiver, it will shoot to point of aim starting cold to very hot across a couple dozen shots fired several times a minute.

Having shot more than a few commercially built, and custom build HUNTING rifles, made from the late 1890s up through the eary 2000s, I have yet to see any of them that doesn't shift when it heats up enough.

Even heavy barrel varmint rifles will do it, though usually to only a very small amount, compared with deer rifles.

I can see where "a good barrel properly fitted to the receiver" would do as you say, but how often does one find that level of "proper" fitting done on a production grade mass produced big game hunting rifle?

Not often I think. (actually I think its probably closer to "slim to none, and Slim's out of town...)

Now, when building a match gun, where part of the expected use is strings of fire (like 10rnds??) you not only want, you NEED the gun to hold its POI as it heats up. This matters to the match shooter, right??

Doesn't mean a rodent's posterior to the deer hunter in the woods, if after 3 or four fast shots (and missing???) the groups opens up, somewhat.

And if i have a rifle that shoots 2, much less 3 inches at 100 yards, i'm either doing work on the rifle, or selling the thing!

I'd bet you are doing a lot of work (probably because you enjoy it) or selling a lot of decent deer rifles to other folks. Neither one is a bad thing, in the least.

Remember that the usual practice measuring group size is to measure between the shots that are furthest away from the point of aim.

SO, a 2 inch group means that the shots that hit farthest away from where you were aiming were 1 inch away (in different directions) and the other shots were closer to the point of aim.

Makes a serious different when your target is the size of a pop can, or the scoring rings & bullseye of a target, but not so much when your target is the vitals of a deer, elk, moose, bear, buffalo, or any other big game animal you might be hunting.

For your Savage Hunter .30-06, I'd say load the "ordinary" way, and don't worry about trying any of the match shooter's tricks (chasing the lands, etc.) until/unless you have proven you don't get acceptable results the regular way.

And don't let Internet gurus browbeat you into thinking your rifle or ammo isn't accurate enough if it doesn't meet or exceed that magical 1 MOA or less. FOR HUNTING.

You can go to town and get groceries in a sports car, in a minivan, or in a Deuce and a half Army truck. One has a degree of style, one is most efficient, and one is a bit much, but all of them will do the job.

[Bart B.]

Fixing the problem of shot-walking as barrels heating up could be fixed for $20`to $30 per rifle, so thinks me.

[Mule]

OP
Once you have settled on a hunting load, build yourself a low recoil, 115 gr or so, or even lead bullet load, for practice that doesn't kick the snot out of you. Practice, trigger squeeze, sight picture, follow thru, manipulating the action from the shoulder,are all important. Doesn't need to be full power. Just reasonably accurate and comfortable enough that you will actually shoot and not develop a flinch. Record your scope adjustments so that you can return to your hunting load sight setting. If you look around you will find round ball 30-06 loads that work well for squirrels and other small critters. (feral dogs) Handling your rifle will become second nature.
Welcome to my addiction!

[RC20]

Fixing the problem of shot-walking as barrels heating up could be fixed for $20`to $30 per rifle, so thinks me.

How would you do that?

[Bart B.]

Originally Posted by RC20

How would you do that?

Right after the receiver is threaded for the barrel tenon, screw it onto a threaded mandrel in a lathe headstock. With the right tool bit in the 90 degree set crossfeed, run it across the receiver face peeling off a couple thousandths to clean it up 360 degrees around.

At the barrel fitting station, use shim stock washers to let the barrel clock/torque in correctly.

10 minutes time to do both.

[Hawg]

I can get my 30-06 to consistently print sub moa groups with IMR 4350 and 165 gr Nosler ballistic tips.

THIS!!! I use 57 grains of IMR 4350.

[Rimfire5]

Bart, you forgot to include the cost of the lathe.

Most of us don't have one or don't have access to one.

[Bart B.]

Originally Posted by Rimfire5

Bart, you forgot to include the cost of the lathe.

Most of us don't have one or don't have access to one.

No, I didn't. It is amortized across several thousand receivers, couple bucks each one.

People barreling actions have a lathe. I addressed factory's costs making rifles, not customers or gunsmiths barreling them.

[ninosdemente]

Paul B., I looked up the pad you were referring to and saw a couple of different ones. The Savage does have a pad but its rubber not plastic, pretty thick. Saw these: https://www.brownells.com/shooting-a...-prod9749.aspx
https://www.amazon.com/Pachmayr-Dece.../dp/B00542J1PO
from a quick search. Did also search for past recoil pad... of the two types which would work best. I have had an eye on the past recoil pad... but since I don't shoot much of the 30-06 I have not made the jump in getting one yet.

Funny about going hunting, as I am with ya'. When I got my first deer with the 30-06 nor the noise bother me nor did the recoil. But then again, I did have some clothing layers and coat on.

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Rimfire5, hopefully one day I will be able to test higher than 165gr. Since still learning did not know regarding about a shot in cold weather vs in hot/warmer weather or barrel being hot/cold. The same goes with powder, after your comment, I really need to read up on the different types of powder. Can you direct me to where I can know about the powders? Thanks for the help about the powders you listed. That info I did not know.

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std7mag, thanks for the directions. Will definitely look up a video on this.

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44 AMP, thanks for the help. Sure did help. Just trying to see what others testing method is for hunting loaded ammo. I understand some may or may not apply to me or someone else. But am looking for that satisfaction that I loaded a round that allowed me to harvest a deer. Can't lie about that.

I don't chase the lance as you put it as for one, I still am at the bottom of the skill level of reloading. Two, there are things that I still don't understand or how to achieve/manipulate/change to some extent. Don't get me wrong, hopefully I will be able to do some stuff others do when I read different threads, but only with time and at a pace. Three, I don't spend much time as I was hoping for which is still the reason why I still consider myself at the bottom skill level in reloading. Just being honest to myself.

I understand now about the sample you provided, thanks.

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Mule, thanks for your comment. Here is where my skill levels doesn't help me.... did not know a much lower grain projectile helps with recoil to some extent as I thought being a 30-06 regardless gives eventually an uncomfortable kick. Unless I read it incorrectly. How did you know I flinch, haha. Yes, this happens quite often and I know that is something I have to fix. Can you explain " Record your scope adjustments so that you can return to your hunting load sight setting." Will using different projectile grains affect this or won't make a difference?

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Hawg, what book do you use? I have the Lyman and Hornady and they vary a bit where the max of one is even higher on the other book. Have to check which is which though.

[Rimfire5]

ninosdemente,

You can start by 'googling' Extreme Powders.
That should take you to Hornady's Extreme Powders site that provides some information that will help you.
Also check out the Enduron powders on the IMR powders pages.

[ninosdemente]

Got it thanks. Found this: http://precisionrifleblog.com/wp-con...ensitivity.pdf

Again, was thinking something different. Which why I asked.

[44 AMP]

I can help with some of these..

did not know a much lower grain projectile helps with recoil to some extent as I thought being a 30-06 regardless gives eventually an uncomfortable kick.

The recoil (kick) you feel is Newton's 3rd law at work (equal and opposite reaction). There's all kinds of "fun" math to figure out the numbers, but basically, the harder you shove the bullet, the harder the rifle shoves you back. Lighter bullets at the same speed as heavier ones, shove back, less. Its a combination of the velocity and the bullet weight. A light bullet at high velocity can have the same amount of kick as a heavier bullet moving slower.

A light bullet moving slower than the heavier hunting bullet will kick noticeably less. Good for practice without beating up your shoulder as much.

Can you explain " Record your scope adjustments so that you can return to your hunting load sight setting." Will using different projectile grains affect this or won't make a difference?

Different grain weight bullets move at different speeds and this creates a slightly different trajectory arc in flight, which means they hit slightly different places on the target. Sight in your rifle for your hunting load, shoot a lighter weight bullet and it will hit higher on the target (usually there are other factors at work as well).

SO lets say you sight in for 150gr, and then shoot 130gr, and say the 130 grain hits 1" higher and 1/2" to the left of the 150 stuff. Since you want to hit on target with the 130 stuff, you adjust your sight (scope), and keep track of how many "clicks" you move the scope crosshairs and in what direction.

Just for numbers to use lets say to sight in for the 130 gr ammo, you need to move the scope 8 clicks up and 4 clicks left,. from where you started, sighted in for the 150gr.

Keeping track (writing down) how many clicks you moved, and in what directions means you can do the opposite and be back to sighted in with the 150 load without needing to re-zero by shooting.

Doesn't hurt to test your scope's ability to return to zero while at the range, though. Due to mechanical tolerances, sometimes they don't return to previous settings exactly. Less likely with today's stuff than in the past, but always possible. Shooting a couple rounds, just to be sure is better than possibly losing a game animal because you didn't.

[bamaranger]

My usual drill after I select a bullet weight and powder charge is to load 10 rds of ammo w/ that combo. I'll shoot three groups of three rounds, and run one round through the chronograph , and assess accuracy and velocity.

I am not a stickler for accuracy in all deer rifles, meaning, I do not insist on hairsplitting accuracy. I have 2 short light semi-auto carbines that shoot about 2.5 MOA plus a bit, and in bothers me not at all, as I have yet to kill a deer past 50-60 yds with either of them, and their moderate cartridges/ ballistics lend themselves to 100-150 yd shots anyhow.

I have higher standards with a full size sporter and decent glass. I expect my bolt sporters to deliver at least 1.5MOA and without much trouble. Typically, they will do that with no special tricks, and sometimes with factory ammo too.

I like 4064 in the '06, and use it for both my bolt rifle and the M1 Garand. The biggest variable I have found in my '06 rifles is bullet weight and manufacturer. The Garand will not shoot 165 gr Nosler Ballistic Tips worth a hoot, yet will cluster Hornady 165 gr boat-tail Interlocks very nicely. The bolt rifle ( a Mark X) likes heavy bullets, 180-220 grs, from about any maker, and does not shoot lighter bullets anywhere near as tight.