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Old April 14, 2019, 12:30 PM   #1
JERRYS.
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practical purpose for .38 spl guns gone....

the gun mind you, not the round.

with airweight J frames and all other revolvers made in .357 mag, what is the practical purpose of the same guns being made in .38 spl anymore? not target shooting specialty guns, but everyday carry guns. you can load any .357 with the lower powered .38 spl so why have a .38 spl version of the very same .357 magnum gun?

why the 64 when there is the 65?

why the 642 when there is the 340?

I'm not talking about the older guns that predated their magnum counterparts, I mean today, why make a .38 spl only gun?
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Old April 14, 2019, 12:39 PM   #2
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I mean today, why make a .38 spl only gun?
as in the case of the LCR and LCRX the advantage is in the weight of a few ounces (because they had to go from alloy to stainless for the strength for the magnum).

My 3" LCRX which is only rate .38 +P is a featherweight and joy to carry. The .357 magnum LCR is just a tad heavier but noticeable in the pocket. Since most people mainly carry .38 and feel .38 +P is the upper limits for their recoil tolerance, the weight savings in the .38 only makes some difference in people's choices in the market place.
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Old April 14, 2019, 01:29 PM   #3
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As HighValleyRanch already mentioned, the LCR and LCRX have two different frame types. The magnum frames are a little bigger and a little heavier than the ones used for rimfire and .38 special.

Another advantage is that cleaning the chambers is a little easier. Shooting shorter cartridges in longer chambers, such as .38 special in a .357 revolver or .32 H&R Magnum in a .327 revolver, causes crud to build up against the little shoulder inside the chamber.
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Old April 14, 2019, 02:31 PM   #4
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Why? Because shooting full house 357s from a light gun is painful and not really necessary when a 38 or even a +P will suffice.
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Old April 14, 2019, 04:39 PM   #5
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Everyone above nailed it

There are also agencies that only allow 38 Special in their officers BUGs
Too many instances of officers playing into the mindset of...

"I'll practice with 38 but carry 357"

Which in and of itself entirely idiotic
But has also contributed to officers being injured and even killed
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Old April 14, 2019, 04:41 PM   #6
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Why? Because shooting full house 357s from a light gun is painful and not really necessary when a 38 or even a +P will suffice.
what does that have to do with my question?
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Old April 14, 2019, 04:44 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Cosmodragoon View Post
As HighValleyRanch already mentioned, the LCR and LCRX have two different frame types. The magnum frames are a little bigger and a little heavier than the ones used for rimfire and .38 special.

Another advantage is that cleaning the chambers is a little easier. Shooting shorter cartridges in longer chambers, such as .38 special in a .357 revolver or .32 H&R Magnum in a .327 revolver, causes crud to build up against the little shoulder inside the chamber.
ok I can see how 3 Oz. can make a difference in a pocket, I think. I'm not getting it if the guns are the same size and profile though.

regarding the cleaning, I guess to me cleaning is cleaning and those wanting to use 38s will probably hardly ever use the magnums, so the ring of crud that takes another two minutes to clean won't matter.

must be just me.
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Old April 14, 2019, 04:53 PM   #8
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ok I can see how 3 Oz. can make a difference in a pocket, I think. I'm not getting it if the guns are the same size and profile though.

regarding the cleaning, I guess to me cleaning is cleaning and those wanting to use 38s will probably hardly ever use the magnums, so the ring of crud that takes another two minutes to clean won't matter.

must be just me.
It takes much longer than that
Some pistols & loads also suffer accuracy issues
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Old April 14, 2019, 04:58 PM   #9
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ok I can see how 3 Oz. can make a difference in a pocket, I think. I'm not getting it if the guns are the same size and profile though.

regarding the cleaning, I guess to me cleaning is cleaning and those wanting to use 38s will probably hardly ever use the magnums, so the ring of crud that takes another two minutes to clean won't matter.

must be just me.
It might be just you.

Seriously though, whether these are minor issues or a major convenience kind of does depend on the person. At least for me, that extra bit of crud bugs me. I almost never shoot the short cartridges in longer-chambered guns. I still have one revolver each in .38 special, .32 H&R Magnum, and .32 S&W Long for if and when I want to use those cartridges.

As far as the LCR goes, they look very similar. It's really something that you notice when you hold them side by side or switch from one to the other in a pocket holster. It's not a big enough deal for me to care though.
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Old April 14, 2019, 05:11 PM   #10
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'Cause women need 'em. Like my daughter who carries a 5 shot, alloy frame Smith.
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Old April 14, 2019, 05:14 PM   #11
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'Cause women need 'em. Like my daughter who carries a 5 shot, alloy frame Smith.
what's wrong with a 340?
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Old April 14, 2019, 05:26 PM   #12
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The reason S&W and Ruger make .38s is because that's what people want. I don't really understand why you are asking. You have evidently never fired an Airweight .38 much less a .357 that weighs 13 ounces. Sheesh...................................
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Old April 14, 2019, 05:43 PM   #13
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Why? Because shooting full house 357s from a light gun is painful and not really necessary when a 38 or even a +P will suffice.
what does that have to do with my question?
The cylinder is shorter; you won't be tempted to shoot 357.

Like putting an exotic hypercar engine in a daily commuter car; simply not needed.
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Old April 14, 2019, 05:49 PM   #14
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If I was buying a snub revolver today it would be a 360J. Why would anyone shoot 357 out of those beasts? Surely no one practices enough to be proficient
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Old April 14, 2019, 05:57 PM   #15
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The reason S&W and Ruger make .38s is because that's what people want. I don't really understand why you are asking. You have evidently never fired an Airweight .38 much less a .357 that weighs 13 ounces. Sheesh...................................
who said you have to shoot 357s in it?
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Old April 14, 2019, 06:04 PM   #16
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what's wrong with a 340?
The 340 is a great firearm. But its list price is $400 more than that of a 642.
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Old April 14, 2019, 06:15 PM   #17
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The 340 is a great firearm. But its list price is $400 more than that of a 642.
finally, a good reason to buy the 38 version. that said, why is it so much more expensive?
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Old April 14, 2019, 06:18 PM   #18
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The question is valid and I understand it completely. I think the answer depends on what the owner feels confident with. In my case, I have a 442-1 that I love and I have complete confidence in the 38 Special +P. My basic criteria was it had to conceal in my front pocket without printing, no exposed hammer and it had to be DA only. The 442 in 38 Special +P is what I finally decided on and I keep it loaded with Federal Premium 38 Special (+P) 129g Hydra Shoks.

To be honest, I did consider a J Frame .357 mag but I could not find one locally that fit my criteria. If I had, I might have that instead.
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Old April 14, 2019, 06:20 PM   #19
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The alloy frame 357's cost twice the allow frame 38's. I had my ScTi 357 rebuilt 3 times before I sold it. I don't mind shooting magnums in the beast, it just would not hold up to the magnums.
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Old April 14, 2019, 06:21 PM   #20
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The question is valid and I understand it completely. I think the answer depends on what the owner feels confident with. In my case, I have a 442-1 that I love and I have complete confidence in the 38 Special +P. My basic criteria was it had to conceal in my front pocket without printing, no exposed hammer and it had to be DA only. The 442 in 38 Special +P is what I finally decided on and I keep it loaded with Federal Premium 38 Special (+P) 129g Hydra Shoks.

To be honest, I did consider a J Frame .357 mag but I could not find one locally that fit my criteria. If I had, I might have that instead.
a concealed hammer airweight J frame .357 is readily available on the open market, maybe just not in your area.
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Old April 14, 2019, 10:10 PM   #21
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a concealed hammer airweight J frame .357 is readily available on the open market, maybe just not in your area.
Yes there is the M&P 340 in 357 with the scandium frame but no one within 50 miles of me had one.
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Old April 15, 2019, 08:35 AM   #22
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I would ask the question the other way. Is there any practical purpose for .357 snub nose revolvers weighing less than about 20 ounces? The SP101 weights in at 26+ ounces and from my experience is the absolute lightest most* people can begin to proficiently shoot .357 rounds out of with any hope for a follow up shot.

*most is probably an overstatement - even in the SP101 proficiency with .357 rounds (and I don't mean the bottom of the chart 357 rounds) seems suspect
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Old April 15, 2019, 09:02 AM   #23
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I would ask the question the other way. Is there any practical purpose for .357 snub nose revolvers weighing less than about 20 ounces? The SP101 weights in at 26+ ounces and from my experience is the absolute lightest most* people can begin to proficiently shoot .357 rounds out of with any hope for a follow up shot.
I had an ScTi S&W 357 mag. The 360 PD, while painful to shoot it would not stand up to a steady diet of magnums. After 300 rounds it went out of time, I sent it in and they replaced the cylinder and the frame. After 100 rounds same thing, got it back and another 100 rounds...... I sent it back again..... Actually talked to an engineer, Oh... They are not designed to shoot magnums........ I sold my rebuilt revolver with full disclosure and bought another 640.

Follow up shots are not my problem. I don't worry about what any other shooter can or can't do, other than keep trying to get better.
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Old April 15, 2019, 09:54 AM   #24
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For the record I can find new 360J (38 special only) for under $500. Should they cost less to produce? I wouldn't think so
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Old April 15, 2019, 10:47 AM   #25
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The SP101 weights in at 26+ ounces and from my experience is the absolute lightest most* people can begin to proficiently shoot .357 rounds out of with any hope for a follow up shot.
Here is a youtube video showing the amount of recoil out of an 18 ounce LCR ahooting Buffalobore .357 180 grain Outdoorsman, one of the hottest commercial .357 loads on the market. Please notice the lack of fireball that so many people claim. The recoil is stout but manageable.
I'm shooting slow fire for demonstration purposes and was more tentative on the very first shot because of all the hoopla about how nasty this round was, but more in control on the second shot after I realized it was fine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoB8...ature=youtu.be
================================

As a comparison, watch the amount of muzzle rise with Jeff Quinn shooting 10mm out of a very heavy Ruger Blackhawk in 10mm with a long barrel. If you check the BB website, the loads between the 10mm and the .357 are fairly comprable. HEAVY 10MM OUTDOORSMAN - 220 gr. Hard Cast - FN
(1,200 fps/ME 703 ft. lbs.) and out of my LCR, the 180 grain was 1250 fps for 625 ME


I don't find anyone posting critical comments about using a 10mm Ruger Blackhawk for woods carry because of excessive muzzle rise for followup shots!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMpb3dSv1R4
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File Type: jpg Quinn 10mm.JPG (194.4 KB, 2163 views)
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