...another James Bond pistol rant

simonrichter · May 10, 2013, 02:45 PM

just watched the Skyfall movie, lately, and I was a little disappointed pistol-wise... With everything else so much more serious and tough in the Craig-era movies, it was again just the PPK...

Don't get me wrong, it is an iconic pistol w/o any doubt, but still a Bond movie should feature some futuristic twist, if you get my drift. E.g. I did like the switch to the P99 during the Brosnan films, sticking with Walther but updating it was quite a good thing to do imho. However, critics are making a point when they point out that a full-sized duty pistol is maybe not the best toy for a secret agent (although, on the other hand, the P99 was anyway used in special situations rather than as a permanent carry piece).

With that glut of brand new subcompacts, it should have been easy to give the newest Bond a handgun that is concealable, distinctively looking, shootout-proof AND state-of-the-art. With the PPS, one could even have stuck with the Bond-proven manufacturer...

Any other folks here who have been socialized by Bond movies as far as guns (or say, semiautos) are concerned?

chrisp51 · May 10, 2013, 02:51 PM

I really thought they would go with the PPS in "Skyfall". The PPK is iconic but old world. If technology is Bonds thing then a imprinted PPS should be his gun of choice.

SIGSHR · May 10, 2013, 02:59 PM

Since it is a movie:
1. We shouldn't take it too seriously.
2. The people who made it probably aren't gun people
3. I personally like to see classic guns on the screen.
4. Perhaps, like many of us in real life, Bond knows what he likes and doen't like.

aarmel732 · May 10, 2013, 03:05 PM

I actually disagree. I thought the ppk was the perfect sidearm. Skyfall was the juxtaposition of old vs new technology. Bond, and M clearly of the old school with the use of the classic Aston, and them actually having physical issues due to age and a lifetime of abuse (and M's willingness to cover for Bond). A modern handgun would have run directly against what the movie was trying to say, Bond is old...his methods, cars, gadgets, even his gun, is old and outdated (spoiler - they are not). He uses an old house, old shotguns, old booby trap ideas, an old gun, an old car, and outsmarts and beats the bad guys with much more modern technology. (A Modern Sporting Rifle with high end optics was close to being his downfall too) The Craig era is MUCH less reliant on gadgetry like the previous bond eras have been.

I think they went the right way with the PPK. Now if he goes more modern in the next movie and an "upgrade" to his old ways, then it would make no sense, and by all means get a new gun. But Skyfall was very purposefully tied to classic Bond.

simonrichter · May 10, 2013, 03:17 PM

Actually making a very good point there. Given I'm a gun-nut, I didn't see the big picture, but what you say about the general bias of Skyfall and its old vs. new underline makes absolutely sense...

Still, I am happy to see that I'm not the only one who considers the PPS the logical successor of the PPK...

Maybe we should invite the guy who is concerned with the script for any future Bond movie to visit this forum

reset · May 10, 2013, 03:20 PM

Wasnt the new Bond PPK in 9mm instead of 380? Thats decently cool. I mean, some things are better with the classic touch. I dont want to see Bond ordering vodka Red Bulls anytime soon.

simonrichter · May 10, 2013, 03:30 PM

Quote:

vodka red bull

LOL well I reckon Dieter Mateschitz (the Red Bull tycoon) would pay up quite a sum for such a switch of drinking manners...

Anyway, the "new" PPK in Skyfall was .380 instead of .32. There is no 9mm PPK as far as I know...

Side note: A few decades ago, the now (Bond-wise) obsolete .32 has been considered "a delivery like a brick through a plate glass window" by Q. Today, the average caliber discussion is whether 9mm or even .40 S&W is powerful enough for home defence or CC...

reset · May 10, 2013, 03:35 PM

"Anyway, the "new" PPK in Skyfall was .380 instead of .32. There is no 9mm PPK as far as I know..."

I could be totally wrong, but i thought Q said his new gun was in 9 mm. That would be cool since, as you stated, they dont make those.

I guess I'll have to rewatch it with a shaken coronarita in hand.

Waspinator · May 10, 2013, 03:40 PM

Bah.. James bond is like the Jedi of secret agents. If Jedi's still use their light-sabers in a world with star-ships, laser guns and droids, then I see no reason that James could use his Jedi weapon of choice too.. at least its a projectile weapon

simonrichter · May 10, 2013, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Bah.. James bond is like the Jedi of secret agents. If Jedi's still use their light-sabers in a world with star-ships, laser guns and droids, then I see no reason that James could use his Jedi weapon of choice too.. at least its a projectile weapon

nothing to return to that argument, since I'm both a Star Wars AND Bond fan

BigMak · May 10, 2013, 03:45 PM

Q states that it's a 9mm Short.

reset · May 10, 2013, 03:49 PM

9 mm short.
Dangit, I stand corrected. I'll need a flaming Dr Pepper to get over that one.

RJay · May 10, 2013, 03:51 PM

.380 ACP is 9MM, AKA 9X17, AKA 9MM Kurz, AKA 9MM Corto and so forth. And as posted there is no 9mm Para {9X19} PP or PPK.

Dragline45 · May 10, 2013, 03:54 PM

If anyone is a big Bond fan they will remember in the very first Bond film that he was very unwilling to switch from the Beretta to the PPK, so much so that Q made Bond give him the Beretta because he knew bond would ditch the PPK for it. So essentially he sticks to what he likes. Plus the PPK is iconic to bond, giving him a new gun will P.O. more people than it will please. It's like taking away Indy's hat and whip, or making Bonds new drink of choice a Mai Tai.

Old_Dog · May 10, 2013, 03:58 PM

My first gun ever was a PPK. It is what makes Bond, Bond. Start changing things and he is just another secret agent. Plus, how can you argue with all those people he kills with one shot in all his movies. Come on, that gun is deadly. His enemies cannot even hit him with machine guns.

Kreyzhorse · May 10, 2013, 05:19 PM

I own a PPK and it is a fantastic gun. Bond however is a classic mix of old and new and the PPK better fits that characteristic.

**Aguila Blanca** · May 10, 2013, 05:31 PM

Q is the gadget guy. In the books (remember those?) Bond carried a PPK (except for the first couple, when he carried something even smaller). Once the "franchise" replaced Sean Connery with Roger Moore and ran out of original Fleming plots, they started substituting whiz-bang toys in place of drama and tension. The later movies were universally inferior to the Connery films.

Craig's "James Bond" seems to be moving the portrayal back in the direction of Bond himself being the deadliest weapon, with less emphasis on the gimmicks. Thank God we aren't seeing any more Bond films with Roger Moore.

rep1954 · May 10, 2013, 05:56 PM

I think the PPK will do today what it did many years ago but only better with the modern ammunition available today. Just because a perp is holding a high capacity plastic wonder gun does not make him immune to an age old proven weapon.

Dragline45 · May 10, 2013, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Thank God we aren't seeing any more Bond films with Roger Moore.

Besides Connery, Roger Moore is my second favorite bond, Brosnan is very close. How can you not be a fan of Sir Roger Moore?

JD0x0 · May 10, 2013, 06:38 PM

I kinda wish Bond used a customized PSS. It seems like a perfect spy gun. Compact, light and most importantly SILENT. The PSS is able to fire quietly without a suppressor which allows you to have a shorter pistol than a typical suppressed pistol.

Quote:

The PSS was developed to give Soviet special forces and secret police an almost completely silent option for covert operations such as reconnaissance and assassinations. The weapon uses a unique cartridge with an internal piston to achieve this end. Otherwise, it is a fairly simple double action pistol. Few details are known about the pistol's performance, as only a few have entered western hands.

Quote:

The PSS uses a specially developed 7.62x42mm necked round SP-4 (СП-4).[1] The cartridge contains an internal piston and a propelling charge, with the stem of the piston against the base of the bullet. On firing, the piston delivers enough impulse to project the bullet from the barrel to an effective range of 25 meters. The piston then seals the cartridge neck, preventing noise, smoke, or blast from escaping the barrel.[2]

shouldazagged · May 10, 2013, 06:59 PM

Quote:

It's like taking away Indy's hat and whip, or making Bonds new drink of choice a Mai Tai.

The horror!

weblance · May 10, 2013, 07:32 PM

A secret agent is a master with a handgun. He could kill with a blow-gun. The PPK is perfect in the hands of a skilled assassin. Its a great mix of old, and new. I dont think they should change a thing.

James K · May 10, 2013, 08:43 PM

Don't confuse the actor with the character. Sean Connery hated guns and contributed money to the gun ban lobby. His "knowledge" of guns was all in the script.

Jim

**Aguila Blanca** · May 10, 2013, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragline45

How can you not be a fan of Sir Roger Moore?

Easily.

James Bond was deadly. Roger Moore played him like a lightweight comedian. There was nothing deadly about Roger Moore's Bond. Brosnan was a big improvement over Moore, but still not as true to the Bond of Ian Fleming as I had hoped when he was announced for the role.

Sharpsdressed Man · May 10, 2013, 09:29 PM

I would have liked to have seen a heavily worn, little-bluing-left, German made Walther PPK 7.65, in a worn shoulder holster, with references to same (a little center stage for the gun) in the movie. This would add to the nostalgia and believability of the secret agent, James Bond. After all, what WOULD a Walther PPK look like that had been carried for years across the European continent on special missions? Forget the new wave tech crap about the special grip identity lock, etc. Just a worn set of brown plastic grips, please.

May 10, 2013, 02:45 PM	#1
simonrichter Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2011 Location: Austria Posts: 757	...another James Bond pistol rant just watched the Skyfall movie, lately, and I was a little disappointed pistol-wise... With everything else so much more serious and tough in the Craig-era movies, it was again just the PPK... Don't get me wrong, it is an iconic pistol w/o any doubt, but still a Bond movie should feature some futuristic twist, if you get my drift. E.g. I did like the switch to the P99 during the Brosnan films, sticking with Walther but updating it was quite a good thing to do imho. However, critics are making a point when they point out that a full-sized duty pistol is maybe not the best toy for a secret agent (although, on the other hand, the P99 was anyway used in special situations rather than as a permanent carry piece). With that glut of brand new subcompacts, it should have been easy to give the newest Bond a handgun that is concealable, distinctively looking, shootout-proof AND state-of-the-art. With the PPS, one could even have stuck with the Bond-proven manufacturer... Any other folks here who have been socialized by Bond movies as far as guns (or say, semiautos) are concerned? __________________ "Get off of my lawn!" Walt Kowalski . ISSC PAR .223

May 10, 2013, 03:17 PM	#5
simonrichter Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2011 Location: Austria Posts: 757	Actually making a very good point there. Given I'm a gun-nut, I didn't see the big picture, but what you say about the general bias of Skyfall and its old vs. new underline makes absolutely sense... Still, I am happy to see that I'm not the only one who considers the PPS the logical successor of the PPK... Maybe we should invite the guy who is concerned with the script for any future Bond movie to visit this forum __________________ "Get off of my lawn!" Walt Kowalski . ISSC PAR .223

May 10, 2013, 03:20 PM	#6
reset Member Join Date: November 29, 2011 Location: North Texas Posts: 18	Wasnt the new Bond PPK in 9mm instead of 380? Thats decently cool. I mean, some things are better with the classic touch. I dont want to see Bond ordering vodka Red Bulls anytime soon. __________________ I'll try anything twice

May 10, 2013, 03:35 PM	#8
reset Member Join Date: November 29, 2011 Location: North Texas Posts: 18	"Anyway, the "new" PPK in Skyfall was .380 instead of .32. There is no 9mm PPK as far as I know..." I could be totally wrong, but i thought Q said his new gun was in 9 mm. That would be cool since, as you stated, they dont make those. I guess I'll have to rewatch it with a shaken coronarita in hand. __________________ I'll try anything twice

May 10, 2013, 03:49 PM	#12
reset Member Join Date: November 29, 2011 Location: North Texas Posts: 18	9 mm short. Dangit, I stand corrected. I'll need a flaming Dr Pepper to get over that one. __________________ I'll try anything twice

May 10, 2013, 02:51 PM	#2
chrisp51 Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2012 Location: NC Posts: 148	I really thought they would go with the PPS in "Skyfall". The PPK is iconic but old world. If technology is Bonds thing then a imprinted PPS should be his gun of choice.

May 10, 2013, 02:59 PM	#3
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	Since it is a movie: 1. We shouldn't take it too seriously. 2. The people who made it probably aren't gun people 3. I personally like to see classic guns on the screen. 4. Perhaps, like many of us in real life, Bond knows what he likes and doen't like.

May 10, 2013, 03:05 PM	#4
aarmel732 Member Join Date: October 15, 2012 Location: Illinois Posts: 67	I actually disagree. I thought the ppk was the perfect sidearm. Skyfall was the juxtaposition of old vs new technology. Bond, and M clearly of the old school with the use of the classic Aston, and them actually having physical issues due to age and a lifetime of abuse (and M's willingness to cover for Bond). A modern handgun would have run directly against what the movie was trying to say, Bond is old...his methods, cars, gadgets, even his gun, is old and outdated (spoiler - they are not). He uses an old house, old shotguns, old booby trap ideas, an old gun, an old car, and outsmarts and beats the bad guys with much more modern technology. (A Modern Sporting Rifle with high end optics was close to being his downfall too) The Craig era is MUCH less reliant on gadgetry like the previous bond eras have been. I think they went the right way with the PPK. Now if he goes more modern in the next movie and an "upgrade" to his old ways, then it would make no sense, and by all means get a new gun. But Skyfall was very purposefully tied to classic Bond.

May 10, 2013, 03:40 PM	#9
Waspinator Senior Member Join Date: February 10, 2013 Location: Connecticut Posts: 517	Bah.. James bond is like the Jedi of secret agents. If Jedi's still use their light-sabers in a world with star-ships, laser guns and droids, then I see no reason that James could use his Jedi weapon of choice too.. at least its a projectile weapon

May 10, 2013, 03:45 PM	#11
BigMak Junior Member Join Date: March 8, 2006 Posts: 10	Q states that it's a 9mm Short.

May 10, 2013, 03:51 PM	#13
RJay Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,936	.380 ACP is 9MM, AKA 9X17, AKA 9MM Kurz, AKA 9MM Corto and so forth. And as posted there is no 9mm Para {9X19} PP or PPK. __________________ Ron James

May 10, 2013, 03:54 PM	#14
Dragline45 Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2010 Posts: 3,513	If anyone is a big Bond fan they will remember in the very first Bond film that he was very unwilling to switch from the Beretta to the PPK, so much so that Q made Bond give him the Beretta because he knew bond would ditch the PPK for it. So essentially he sticks to what he likes. Plus the PPK is iconic to bond, giving him a new gun will P.O. more people than it will please. It's like taking away Indy's hat and whip, or making Bonds new drink of choice a Mai Tai. Last edited by Dragline45; May 10, 2013 at 04:04 PM.

May 10, 2013, 03:58 PM	#15
Old_Dog Member Join Date: May 6, 2013 Location: Florida Posts: 62	My first gun ever was a PPK. It is what makes Bond, Bond. Start changing things and he is just another secret agent. Plus, how can you argue with all those people he kills with one shot in all his movies. Come on, that gun is deadly. His enemies cannot even hit him with machine guns. __________________ I prepare for the possible that is most likely rather than the unlikely just because it is possible.

May 10, 2013, 05:19 PM	#16
Kreyzhorse Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2006 Location: NKY Posts: 12,463	I own a PPK and it is a fantastic gun. Bond however is a classic mix of old and new and the PPK better fits that characteristic. __________________ "He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson

May 10, 2013, 05:31 PM	#17
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,460	Q is the gadget guy. In the books (remember those?) Bond carried a PPK (except for the first couple, when he carried something even smaller). Once the "franchise" replaced Sean Connery with Roger Moore and ran out of original Fleming plots, they started substituting whiz-bang toys in place of drama and tension. The later movies were universally inferior to the Connery films. Craig's "James Bond" seems to be moving the portrayal back in the direction of Bond himself being the deadliest weapon, with less emphasis on the gimmicks. Thank God we aren't seeing any more Bond films with Roger Moore. Last edited by Aguila Blanca; May 10, 2013 at 08:59 PM. Reason: Q, not M

May 10, 2013, 05:56 PM	#18
rep1954 Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2009 Location: Mid Western Michigan Posts: 1,187	I think the PPK will do today what it did many years ago but only better with the modern ammunition available today. Just because a perp is holding a high capacity plastic wonder gun does not make him immune to an age old proven weapon.

May 10, 2013, 07:32 PM	#22
weblance Senior Member Join Date: October 3, 2012 Posts: 1,229	A secret agent is a master with a handgun. He could kill with a blow-gun. The PPK is perfect in the hands of a skilled assassin. Its a great mix of old, and new. I dont think they should change a thing.

May 10, 2013, 08:43 PM	#23
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Don't confuse the actor with the character. Sean Connery hated guns and contributed money to the gun ban lobby. His "knowledge" of guns was all in the script. Jim

May 10, 2013, 09:29 PM	#25
Sharpsdressed Man Junior member Join Date: June 21, 2009 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 1,176	I would have liked to have seen a heavily worn, little-bluing-left, German made Walther PPK 7.65, in a worn shoulder holster, with references to same (a little center stage for the gun) in the movie. This would add to the nostalgia and believability of the secret agent, James Bond. After all, what WOULD a Walther PPK look like that had been carried for years across the European continent on special missions? Forget the new wave tech crap about the special grip identity lock, etc. Just a worn set of brown plastic grips, please.