Law and Order!

[roy reali]

Lets be honest here. How close do you follow hunting regulations? Do read the laws pertaining to the type of hunting you are going to do and then follow them religiously? If hunting time starts at 6:30am, and you see a dream trophy deer twenty yards away five minutes before that, do you fudge the regs, shoot the animal, and hope no one was watching? Or do you hold like a statue for five minutes?

How quick are you to report others that violate game laws? Do you ignore minor violations like shooting a few minutes early, but report major ones like shooting an out-of-season animal? Or do you have fish and game in your cell phone's contacts to use at a drop of a hat?

I am anal when it comes to hunting regualtions. I follow them as close to perfect as I can. I also report violators ASAP. If the limit of a certain bird is four and some fellow shows me five birds, I gather as much info as I can and call the game cops.

[.284]

WOW......Judging from your statement, I don't think you will have hardcore violators confessing in this thread. You have said you would turn them in. I bet you will get a bunch of people telling you that they are squeaky clean.
Personally, I make the effort to know and follow the rules. Have I made some honest mistakes? Yes, I have. I have not been busted for a major violation. I have seen some minor infractions while out and about but have never called on anyone. I would call on major stuff.

[Longdayjake]

A few years back my buddy became aquainted with another fellow "hunter." He invited us to go with him one time to hunt coyotes. Since I had never had any luck with coyotes I was way pumped. On the way out to where he hunts you have to drive through an Indian Reservation. About 1 mile into the Indian Reservation we spot a coyote in between two houses. The "hunter" jumps out and throws his .223 across the hood and begins shooting several shots across the road as traffic is coming either way. My buddy and I both looked at eachother and said, "never again."

Later that day "hunter" shoots a black bird with his .223 while its sitting on top of a power line. (He missed his first two shots). Then he shoots a squirrel off of a tree trunk at like 4 feet away. Then he shoots a muskrat in some guy's private pond. Each one of those shots were mildly protested by my buddy and me but it wasn't until he started to draw a bead on a red tail hawk that we finally got really serious. I had heard about people that kill everything for fun but had never seen it before. I remember watching him wondering why he thought it was okay to do those things. Not only is it illegal, but its immoral and stupid as well. I just couldn't get it. Every time I went out hunting after that I remembered that day and wondered what ever happened to that guy. Well, last week I was reading the news paper and saw that he had been arrested for rape. Moral of the story: Hunting honestly takes morals and sportsmanship. If you can't do it legally and ethically then what other areas of your life are screwed up as well? Since that day I vowed never to be a part of something like that again and to report illegal behavior. There were plenty of witnesses that day and not one spoke up.

[ZeroJunk]

The game warden is a member of our small club. Yes we are by the book.

[Art Eatman]

I figure that if I am in disagreement with the game laws of an area, I won't hunt there. Generally, however, most game laws are based on pretty good reasons.

Texas law speaks to legal hours as being from 30 minutes before sunrise to 30 minutes after sunset. That's all well and good if you're on flat land, but it ain't worth a hoot in mountains. "Define". Generally, however, the few times I've actually looked at official times for sunrise and sunset, "shooting light" falls within the legal times. IOW, why worry?

I'm not going to turn somebody in for a minor transgression, although I'm quite willing to have a few words with him. But I'll happily do my best to see a poacher busted.

[Daryl]

I've no excuse for not knowing my state's hunting and fishing regulations, since i've lived here all my life. Yes, I know them, and yes, I try to follow them as best I can.

If there was a deer standing 20 yards away, I'm not sure I'd be checking my watch to see what time it was. Arizona shooting hours are from 1/2 hour before sunrise to sunset. If I can see clearly in the morning, I'll likely shoot. I don't look up exact times, which can vary up to 18 minutes (9 minutes earlier or later), depending on where in the state one is hunting, and also varies some each day. If the sun has set, no matter the time, I'm done hunting.

I've been hunting and fishing all of my life, and I've never recieved a citation for a game and/or fish violation, so I'm fairly sure I do things pretty close to the books.

I don't bother reporting minor violations. If someone shoots a bit too early, I'm not likely to even know for sure, much less check my watch.

However, if I see a serious violation, one of our local game wardens is a buddy of mine, and I'd call it in without hesitation. By serious, I'm talking about poaching, shooting up water tanks, and the like. I'm no slob hunter, and I've no use for those who are. Oh, and I don't have it plugged into my cell phone, but the game wardens personal cell phone number is easy to remember. The last 4 numbers are the same as my post office box. Yes, I have reported a couple of things through him.

Daryl

[rickyrick]

I generally use the landowners agent clause for nuissance animals, I don't hunt dear or "eatin' animals" except for a few pigs that I usually give away.

[jmr40]

Was it an honest mistake, or someone trying to beat the system? I've seen minor infractions and gave the hunter a friendly tip before. I've taken photos of other infractions and given them to my local Warden resulting in a citation when I felt the need.

I try hard to know and follow the laws and regulations. Knowing exactly when to legally shoot is a close one. Look at any 5 peoples watch and you will get 5 different times, sometimes more than 5 min. difference between the fastest and slowest. Most laws are designed for safety. If it is safe to shoot and within a few min. on my watch I would probably shoot.

[Scorch]

I generally know the regs and follow them closely. I used to hunt with a game warden, and I pretty much had to know and follow the rules or else, if you know what I mean. Like Art, I have found out over the years that most of the rules have a pretty common sense basis, and they are pretty common across the various states I have hunted. I read the regs before I start hunting a new area, and try to keep it clean so if I do run into the warden I can be friendly and open with him. Like many others, I have found out after the fact that I violated some minor rule or other, but it has been so long since that has happened I can say with some confidence that I follow the law pretty close. My experience with other hunters as hunting companions is probably pretty common to others here: if they were safe, they wouldn't follow the rules; if they never shot animals that were not legal to shoot, it was because they were lousy hunters and never had a chance to pass on a shot. If they didn't drink before they were fully awake, they smoked dope or took pills to relax. After that, I hunted alone for years. After an experience where a coworker's brother shot a fawn (still had spots!) with a 32ACP milsurp pistol, and the game warden wouldn't investigate it when I told him, I quit hunting with coworkers. I quit hunting out of a vehicle after I was nearly shot by a rancher who grabbed his rifle by the trigger to get it out of the rifle rack (yes, it was loud). I quit hunting with people who get excited after a friend touched off his 25-06 about 6" from my left ear (it still rings constantly). I have been fortunate enough to find a few hunting companions over the years that go on hunting trips with me (we don't hunt together) and keep me laughing after I come back to camp sore and tired. Following the regs won't make you popular, but it will let you hunt with a clear conscience.

[Buzzcook]

I try to remember the basics of what, where, when, and how many animals I can shoot. The rest is pretty much common sense.

One time, many years ago, I had just taken my gear out of my car and loaded my rifle, I turned around and there was a 4x4 blacktail 20 feet from me. So I shot him. I felt pretty guilty about shooting from a road. The deer tasted just as good though.
I carried that guilt many years till I found out the regulations say highway, not road.

[FrankenMauser]

Like most of the other posters - I think most of the regs are pretty much just common sense, have a good ethical basis, and were put in writing due to idiots that lacked the first two.

To answer your questions directly:

Do read the laws pertaining to the type of hunting you are going to do and then follow them religiously?

Pretty much.

If hunting time starts at 6:30am, and you see a dream trophy deer twenty yards away five minutes before that, do you fudge the regs, shoot the animal, and hope no one was watching? Or do you hold like a statue for five minutes?

Taking game before or after legal daylight is considered poaching any where I hunt. The buck won't be moving very fast at that time of morning/night. I can wait. However, if my watch says "6:30"; it's 6:30. I'm taking my shot, as long as there's enough light to be ethical.
(Not that that would ever happen. I go hunting to hunt. I don't go hunting to crawl out of bed at 4:30 am, hike 2 miles to a blind, and sit in freezing-ass-cold weather until I'm bored enough to hike back to camp. I'm usually still in bed at 9 am for big game hunts. It's so much more relaxed... )

How quick are you to report others that violate game laws? Do you ignore minor violations like shooting a few minutes early, but report major ones like shooting an out-of-season animal? Or do you have fish and game in your cell phone's contacts to use at a drop of a hat?

If I can see where a simple misunderstanding or common mistake may have caused the problem, I might let it slide.
But... Some A-hole driving out of a Spike/Cow-only Elk unit with a 6x6 Bull won't get far before my poachers' hotline tip catches up.

And I do keep the Poaching Hotlines and general Fish and Game phone numbers in my phone for the areas/states that I hunt in.

I follow them as close to perfect as I can. I also report violators ASAP. If the limit of a certain bird is four and some fellow shows me five birds, I gather as much info as I can and call the game cops.

I do, too. But.... you have to have a little wiggle room some times. Sometimes there are unknown variables.

You can't jump on everyone, every time.

[davlandrum]

I make a concerted effort to fully comply. I am a Hunter Ed instructor, so hold myself to a high standard.

My frustration is that the way regs are written now, you need a law degree, need to be a master surveyor, AND have a touch of luck to be 100% in compliance, 100% of the time.

A buddy of mine came very close to getting cited one year on a pheasant violation. The only thing that saved him was he was fully in compliance with one page of the regs that he had read. The officer cited a different page that was totally contrary to the other page. If the regs state two different things, which is right.

And, yes, if you found the conflicting information ahead of time, you could get clarification, but if you only read one and assumed you were good...

[briandg]

I follow ALL laws. I drive the limit, I don't drink in the car, I don't spit on the sidewalks, and I've never shot anyone that didn't deserve it.

The only game laws I've ever violated were disposal of nuisance animals, mostly on my own property.

Being able to call myself an honest and moral man is more important than any game animal. That goes for the rest of life.

I'm sick to death of the mindset that allows a person to think being an ass is perfectly acceptable. Did you hear about the guy who deliberately barfed on another person at a ball game? My feelings are that he should have been caned until the blood flowed in the gutters.

[Art Eatman]

"I drive the limit..."

Yeah, well, so do I. But Goodyear makes some tires with a fairly high limit.

There's crime against person and crime against property about which most folks readily agree. By and large, however, "crime against government" is a made-up fiction.

[briandg]

The only disagreement I have with that is that speed limits, game limits, that sort of thing are still protective of other people's property rights, and other rights.

4 separate times I've been clobbered at intersections by people who failed to stop for red. It's really pathetic when an off duty deputy sheriff rear ends you as you sit stopped at a red light. His excuse was that he was certain I'd run the red, and he was going to blow through behind me. It was raining, and he didn't notice MY BRAKE LIGHTS until it was too late.

The guy who hit my wife (pregnant, no less,) gave the excuse that he was looking out the rear window at a girl, and didn't notice that the light turned red.

You cannot comprehend how much the deductibles have cost us over the last 40 years because of uninsured dingbats who figure traffic laws (and insurance laws) don't mean anything.

I'm really tired of it all.

[Art Eatman]

Around town? It's just like hunting: My little old head is going 'round and 'round like a little hootie owl, looking for the dumb SOB who's gonna run over me. And, really, it's sorta practice for walking-hunting, in a way.

But on open country roads where I know the way, and I have the road to myself, I do tend to run a bit quick. I don't hit rabbits and horned toads, though.

And that herd of Oryx on the O2 Ranch on Hwy 118 tends to get me way whoaed down.

For me, it's a common sense thing, far more than what any laws say. And, really, hunting's the same: Use common sense and be ethical, even if there are no laws at all. Courtesy, politeness, fair chase, all that stuff.

Game laws derived from the advice of hunters and stockmen, trying to teach the city folks who pass the laws.

[briandg]

I've never seen an oryx along the road. I have to admit, just seeing the occasional live armadillo is enough to freak me out.

When it's been really rough on the armadillos around here, you can count on one at least every 2 miles of roadway, in and out of town. Add in possum, and you might see one in your rear view mirror as another one is coming up in front.

[THORN74]

Longdayjake
Senior Member

A few years back my buddy became aquainted with another fellow "hunter." He invited us to go with him one time to hunt coyotes. Since I had never had any luck with coyotes I was way pumped. On the way out to where he hunts you have to drive through an Indian Reservation. About 1 mile into the Indian Reservation we spot a coyote in between two houses. The "hunter" jumps out and throws his .223 across the hood and begins shooting several shots across the road as traffic is coming either way. My buddy and I both looked at eachother and said, "never again."

Later that day "hunter" shoots a black bird with his .223 while its sitting on top of a power line. (He missed his first two shots). Then he shoots a squirrel off of a tree trunk at like 4 feet away. Then he shoots a muskrat in some guy's private pond. Each one of those shots were mildly protested by my buddy and me but it wasn't until he started to draw a bead on a red tail hawk that we finally got really serious. I had heard about people that kill everything for fun but had never seen it before. I remember watching him wondering why he thought it was okay to do those things. Not only is it illegal, but its immoral and stupid as well. I just couldn't get it. Every time I went out hunting after that I remembered that day and wondered what ever happened to that guy. Well, last week I was reading the news paper and saw that he had been arrested for rape. Moral of the story: Hunting honestly takes morals and sportsmanship. If you can't do it legally and ethically then what other areas of your life are screwed up as well? Since that day I vowed never to be a part of something like that again and to report illegal behavior. There were plenty of witnesses that day and not one spoke up.

Im not a hunter. not that im against it by any stretch, the oppertunity/desire has never presented it self. I have been shoot for years mostly handguns, recently rifles. I have always told my self if i ever went hunting i would have to follow one rule: ONLY HUNT WHAT YOU ARE WILLING TO EAT.

your above story is precisely why lots of people dont hunt

[bswiv]

Being now 53 years old I can say without shame that I am kind of boring, been that way for a long time. And part of being boring is that I have no intrest in explaing to a officer of the law why I was doing something I should have not been doing.

Seems to me at this pont in life that I just do not have enough good hours or money left to be sitting in a court room or paying a fine.

This is not to say that when I don't like a regulation I do nothing about it. Much to the contrary the decision makers, from my local county commission to the FEC are familiar with me. I've a habit of pestering them to get things changed to the way I want them.

But until I can get the regulations changed I tend to follow them.

And yes I turn folks in. Not for the little stuff or when it's obvious they had no idea it was illegal but for most of it.

And I'll add this: The woods would be more fun, and safer!, if the folks that looked at the law as something to be abided by only when it suited them were not in the woods with the rest of us.

[jgcoastie]

Back home in MS, it's illegal to hunt animals at night with rifles over .22lr and shotguns with shot size greater than #6.

The few times I've broken that rule I was helping out the local game warden with coyote & hog control on a farmer's land. The coyotes were eating his chickens and the hogs were eating his corn. The farmer called the game warden about the problem and he, in turn, called me and asked if I was busy at night that week... I wasn't. I had a good time with a good friend (game warden) and got a lot of live target practice with that .25/06.

And yes, we took the hogs to the meat locker which is a collection center for Hunters Feeding Families...

[roy reali]

What would you do in this situation?

Someone you know doesn't get drawn for a big game tag, but his wife does. He uses her tag to bag the animal. He even takes her on the hunt, but he does the "deed". Do you say anything?

[Art Eatman]

THORN74, your comment about why some folks don't hunt is like refusing to use a checkbook because some people write hot checks.

Roy, cheating is cheating. Her application, apparently made only to improve their odds when she wasn't to be the actual hunter, was cheating. Bad news.

Flip side of the coin: In parts of central Texas, the legal limit on deer is much less than proper game management should allow. Way, way too many deer for the carrying capacity of the habitat. So if a hunter is out of time to hunt, but leaves his doe tags for another hunter, is that breaking of law really worth reporting? Which is more important: The law, or the habitat?

In 1967 I moved back to the old home place, 230 acres not far outside Austin. Jeeping around one night with a spotlight, I counted over fifty pairs of eyes. Way too many deer. I went on a serious culling campaign for three years. Way illegal. By the fourth year, body weights were up 20 to 30 percent. Instead of mature spike bucks and scraggle-horn bucks, I had bucks which looked like the pictures of what a deer oughta be. So which is more important: The law, or the health of the herd? Yet all I did was what any halfway-smart rancher does: Maintain the carrying capacity of the range.

[THORN74]

Art Eatman
Staff
THORN74, your comment about why some folks don't hunt is like refusing to use a checkbook because some people write hot checks.

you are correct, there is no logic to my statement at all. i never said those people were logical. The facts remain that there are people out there that use stories like that to villify hunting/shooting.

its the same people who want to ban guns because "guns kill people".... i say by that same logic we should ban kitchen knives, automobiles, and hammers, because they kill people too. logic never enters into topics like these.

[.284]

In 1967 I moved back to the old home place, 230 acres not far outside Austin. Jeeping around one night with a spotlight, I counted over fifty pairs of eyes. Way too many deer. I went on a serious culling campaign for three years. Way illegal. By the fourth year, body weights were up 20 to 30 percent. Instead of mature spike bucks and scraggle-horn bucks, I had bucks which looked like the pictures of what a deer oughta be. So which is more important: The law, or the health of the herd? Yet all I did was what any halfway-smart rancher does: Maintain the carrying capacity of the range.

I don't know Art, where I agree that you did a better job of managing the herd than the state was doing, if you would've been caught you wouldn't have had a leg to stand on. I would assume that Texas is like Michigan......those weren't your deer. they were the states natural resource.

[ZeroJunk]

Yep, couple of things about the law that are pertinent to posts in this thread.

Not knowing the law or disagreement with the law is going to require an unusually sympathetic judge to get you anywhere in court.